Question for Atheists...

[Polymath257]

And now I just would have to believe what you said. Sorry, I have great difficulties to believe you.

And it is impossible to really measure it from over 1000's years ago.

That is false. We know when certain historical volcanoes erupted and we can find the effects in the ice cores (and where the level count matches the actual date of the volcano). We can use multiple methods (tree rings, lake varves) and see the same volcano eruptions, so we know those methods also give correct dates. This consistency between dating methods based on *very* different processes shows that the methods are accurate.

Maybe they agree, because they are "calibrated" to match atheistic world view?

No. They are calibrated against other methods of dating. The scientists involved are not trying to promote an atheistic agenda. They are simply trying to figure out what is actually going on. Remember that many of the scientists are religious themselves.

But, for example influence of volcano can affect globally, that is why it could be seen globally in glaciers.

Exactly. And that is how we know that the different methods are consistent. And that means they all give the correct dates.

Now I should go to measure and count those by myself, I don't believe the claims otherwise.

So you will first need to take the classes required to learn how to properly work with the ice cores, how to use the various instruments, etc. Once you get enough training, you can do the harder work.

 

[Audie]

You're from Finland? That would be news that makes me question science. Scientists have told me that Finland has a good education system.

Winner frub!

 

[Audie]

Oh, atheist have looked into it again and again and they nowhere find any God or Goddess. Give us the evidence for the supposed actions of your God. Theism adds up to a big ZERO.

It won't be there unless you already Believe

 

[Polymath257]

You are reading but you see only Religions not where I point.

Remember, I said at the start on my journey I was open to all possibilities regardless of what they might be. Simply because the journey ended up Discovering God, does not make that bias.

Next when I speak of God, I am talking about actual experience. No one is capable of this experience even delusional.

Delusions can produce very moving experiences. Are you sure this can't be delusion?

No one told science things before science discovered them? Did I not say that an action of God is that God does not give out knowledge? Knowledge must be Discovered. Wisdom is acquired on the journey to Discover knowledge. Why would God tell all when that would defeat the purpose?

Some religions say God told them things like how to live and what to do. That only proves that they do not come from God!!! Once again, that would defeat the purpose of the system God has in place.

Can't see God in things around you? Great!! Do like I did. Study those things anyway. They are creations of God. There are things you can learn about studying them.

Don't you understand? God doesn't make demands. God doesn't intimidate or coerce. Mankind values those petty things. Mankind wants to control and manipulate.

God isn't teaching people to do these things. People choose these things because they do not Understand all those petty things will never lead to the Best choices.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

From what I see, you start with the assumption that there is a purpose and that there is a god.

Instead, I ask whether or not there is a purpose and whether or not there is a god. Then I ask what the purpose might be and what that god might want. The difference is that I ask first what sort of things would be required to show that there is a purpose and what sort of things would be required to show that there is a god. These questions need to be answered even before the search commences.

 

[anna.]

It is necessary for a scientist to not believe in magic - or at least to not believe in magic in one's own field of study.

Ouch! I think I'm afflicted with this cognitive dissonance.

 

[Polymath257]

I don't believe a word you say.
Proving how imagination occurs is not easy
Researchers have long suggested that human imagination exists thanks to a widespread neural network in the brain.
However, clearly demonstrating that such a “mental workspace” exists has been extremely difficult with available techniques that only managed to examine brain activity in isolation.

What exactly consciousness is and why it does what it does is another question. For now we may only speculate that consciousness is imagination acting as a link between our observable universe and the underlying quantum field: imagination extracting reality out of possibilities.

Sorry, but the brain is not a quantum system. It works classically since it is large ( much larger than an atom) and hot (much hotter than absolute zero).

 

[Heyo]

Ouch! I think I'm afflicted with this cognitive dissonance.

How so? What are your beliefs and what is your field of study?

 

[anna.]

How so? What are your beliefs and what is your field of study?

Short and sweet: Catholic and psychology (degree but not profession, too late in life). Not a hard science, I know, but while social and cultural psychology were and remain fascinating to me, the majority of my studies were in cognitive and biological psychology.
On a philosophical level, I still struggle with the mind-body problem, on a scientific level with OBEs, and on a religious level life after death.

 

[Heyo]

Short and sweet: Catholic and psychology (degree but not profession, too late in life). Not a hard science, I know, but while social and cultural psychology were and remain fascinating to me, the majority of my studies were in cognitive and biological psychology.
On a philosophical level, I still struggle with the mind-body problem, on a scientific level with OBEs, and on a religious level life after death.

I see the problem.

 

[anna.]

I see the problem.

It's not too hard to see. Yet the problem continues.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sorry, but the brain is not a quantum system. It works classically since it is large ( much larger than an atom) and hot (much hotter than absolute zero).

This reminds me of an apt response when someone says "I am not an animal" It goes:

You move too much to be a tree and you are too large to be a bacteria.

 

[Heyo]

It's not too hard to see. Yet the problem continues.

And I have no idea how to help you - because telling you to become a monist won't help you and I assume you know all the arguments against dualism.

 

[anna.]

And I have no idea how to help you - because telling you to become a monist won't help you and I assume you know all the arguments against dualism.

You shouldn't assume I know all the arguments against dualism. I'm not a philosopher, nor do I pretend to know more than I do.

I've taken exactly one semester of philosophy and it was a survey course at that. I'm probably better read in theology than a lot of Catholics but not nearly as much as some I know. I know enough about psychology to be dangerous.

The mind is so mysterious. Despite all that neuroscience has learned, it has barely scratched the surface. Or the dura mater, you could say. Neurosurgeon (and nonbeliever) Henry Marsh said it like this: "We're all sitting on an equally great mystery within ourselves, each of us, in this microcosm of our own consciousness..."

 

[Bird123]

OK, explain what you mean when you refer to God. Then demonstrate that this thing you define exists outside of human imagination, and exists as detectable phenomenon in reality.

And when we refer to others by their name when they aren't present they are being referred to conceptually even though they exist. So a real thing, like your cat, can be both real and conceptual.

Do you feel wider now?

I think you cut and paste this by habit, because this statement does not reflect reality given your posts.

Names are a creation of mankind for language in giving a point of reference. God, using mankind's term for language, is a Spiritual Being of High Intelligence. I have pointed you in a direction by which you can Discover who God actually is. Wisdom is acquired on the journey to discovery.

God is more than a concept. God is what is.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Oh, atheist have looked into it again and again and they nowhere find any God or Goddess. Give us the evidence for the supposed actions of your God. Theism adds up to a big ZERO.

It is a journey. If you can not find God, then study what is around you. Figure out how and why it is. How does it fit into the puzzle of everything. Since the universe is God's creation, you will be studying God whether you realize this or not. Just like putting a puzzle together with several thousand pieces, one can not always see the picture of what it truly is until one reaches a certain amount of understanding.

I am not talking about theism or beliefs. I am talking about what is!!

Theism is about feelings and beliefs. I am talking about an intellectual level. Theism does not have to add up. The intellectual level must!

Science will Discover God before religion will. On the other hand, people find so many ways to limit themselves, narrowing that view. A Being capable of creating everything has advanced thinking, a wide view. One should nurture that in oneself to advance forward.

There is much to Discover. If one truly seeks, then starts the journey, one will find the journey will never end.

What is the first thing a wise man realizes once he truly becomes wise? Anybody? Anybody?? The first thing a wise man realizes once he truly become wise is that there is so much more to learn!!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

I brought up cancer and deadly bacteria and asked you to explain the purpose and what it says about a God. You had no answers.



But you can’t do the math so we have no reason to believe you. We can’t just take your word for these outrageous claims, so you need to offer evidence.

You can't take my word for it??? I don't want you to take my word for it. I copy God. I place truth and knowledge of what I have Discovered in the world. What you seek is entirely up to you. I point the way for those ready. It's not easy discovering the starting point. No one pointed for me.

OK, cancer and deadly bacteria: I asked you to look at the results and changes rather than the hurt. I'll ask a question to get you thinking. How much knowledge and wisdom has mankind acquired due to disease? Why is it when a disease is cured that a new one pops up? Look at this world at what is happening. It is staring you in the face.

Mankind's goal is to have it made. Is that really God's goal? Look for the purpose in this world Why are things as they are. It all adds up!!!

So many look for knowledge of God through the beliefs of others. The knowledge of God is not in beliefs. It surrounds us all.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[YoursTrue]

Sorry, but the brain is not a quantum system. It works classically since it is large ( much larger than an atom) and hot (much hotter than absolute zero).

Either atoms think separately or they think collectively. What do you think?

 

[Bird123]

Delusions can produce very moving experiences. Are you sure this can't be delusion?

From what I see, you start with the assumption that there is a purpose and that there is a god.

Instead, I ask whether or not there is a purpose and whether or not there is a god. Then I ask what the purpose might be and what that god might want. The difference is that I ask first what sort of things would be required to show that there is a purpose and what sort of things would be required to show that there is a god. These questions need to be answered even before the search commences.

Walk. Seek. Learn.

Those who seek have an unlimited amount of questions. Do you question? Do you work at Discovering the answers to your questions or do you want others to answer your questions for you?

What do you seek? What is your purpose? Do you really think there is no purpose to anything? Why have you not asked yourself these things or even wondered? Where is your desire to know?

What are you doing and why? I realize you believe God does not exist. Are you trying to get others to follow your beliefs? By getting others to follow your beliefs does it help you confirm to yourself that your beliefs are true? Do you need this confirmation? Has religion hurt you? Open up. I have told you my story. Tell me yours.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Aupmanyav]

It is a journey. .. It's very clear!!

Word salad without any meaning. Still no evidence.

What are you doing and why? I realize you believe God does not exist. Are you trying to get others to follow your beliefs? By getting others to follow your beliefs does it help you confirm to yourself that your beliefs are true? Do you need this confirmation? Has religion hurt you? Open up. I have told you my story. Tell me yours.

Yeah, religion hurts people. See what is happening in China, Israel, India, Pakistan, France and elsewhere. Religion is the cause of most strife between people. It is a poison. People would have been better without any religion. Your God and my God. Your book and my book.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[F1fan]

You can't take my word for it??? I don't want you to take my word for it.

You got it. That's why when you make claims you then offer substantial evidence and a coherent explanation. You only make the claims and ignore the rest.

I copy God.

Which one of the many thousands?

I place truth and knowledge of what I have Discovered in the world. What you seek is entirely up to you. I point the way for those ready. It's not easy discovering the starting point. No one pointed for me.

That's how religion works.

OK, cancer and deadly bacteria: I asked you to look at the results and changes rather than the hurt. I'll ask a question to get you thinking. How much knowledge and wisdom has mankind acquired due to disease? Why is it when a disease is cured that a new one pops up? Look at this world at what is happening. It is staring you in the face.

So you have no answers like you didn't the other time.

Mankind's goal is to have it made. Is that really God's goal? Look for the purpose in this world Why are things as they are. It all adds up!!!

Does it? Well tell us all about it. Or do you not have these answers either?

So many look for knowledge of God through the beliefs of others. The knowledge of God is not in beliefs. It surrounds us all.

Who told you that a God exists? Why did you believe them?

Names are a creation of mankind for language in giving a point of reference. God, using mankind's term for language, is a Spiritual Being of High Intelligence. I have pointed you in a direction by which you can Discover who God actually is. Wisdom is acquired on the journey to discovery.

God is more than a concept. God is what is.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

This isn't clear at all.