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Question for Christians & ex-Christians

InChrist

Free4ever
I think there are many who are raised in Christianity who simply go through the motions and it is nothing more than a religion, but I have never met a born again believer who walks with Christ daily that doubts Jesus historically existed and that the NT events are factual.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
I think there are many who are raised in Christianity who simply go through the motions and it is nothing more than a religion, but I have never met a born again believer who walks with Christ daily that doubts Jesus historically existed and that the NT events are factual.

There are also those who believed, but as they studied the Bible, and what other Christians said they have to believe to be Christian, found it to be farther and farther from any truth. Telling intelligent people that they have to believe in talking snakes and donkeys, or Noah's Ark, etc, will eventually give them cause to leave.

Why stay in a religion that reads like a dark fairytale? Or one that your Biblical studies show has been purposely changed to fit NT ideas? Such as going back into the OT and changing words to "HELL" that don't mean such. Or changing YHVH or Elohiym to Lord so it appears to line up with the NT.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Those who believe in him often doubt from time to time. Doubting is what real people do. Abraham doubted, yet he is counted as trusting. Even Jesus upon the cross seems to doubt for a moment. Its easy to find people who are afraid to tell you they are doubting, because the current church culture discourages honesty about that.

I believe those "doubting" words on the cross are another verse they mistranslated.

They don't make sense in context to the story we are being told.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
disciple said:
That's really what I'm wondering.. are many people who attend church and call themselves Christians just going through the motions, perhaps they feel obligated to have a "religion" or are simply calling themselves Christians because it's easy and convenient.
I believe Matthew 18 speaks to that. Its all about forgiveness, humility, leaving the 99 for the one and it says if two or three gather in Jesus name he's with them. All you have to do is gather in his name humbly, overlooking the shortcomings of others. This is in tight synch with the prayer of Matthew 6:9-12, receiving daily bread, forgiving debts, wishing for the Father's will not our own.
 
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RJ50

Active Member
Unfortunately for me I was raised by parents who believed in the fundamentalist version of Christianity, 'get 'saved' or go to hell' I did the 'saved' bit when I was 11, and for awhile was quite devout, even though I never had any sense a deity actually existed. Thank goodness by the time I left home, when I married at 19, the doubts about this unpleasant version of Christianity were overwhelming and I lost my faith entirely. I am now 62 and don't miss it in th eslightest degree. I feel very sorry for young people still being brought up to believe in that awful dogma. I have no problem with mainstream Christians who have a live and let live approach to their faith, and who don't seek to impose it on others.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Do you believe that Jesus actually existed, or do you think it is just a 'mythos'? Do other Christians you know believe in the NT as fact or myths just to relate stories?

This question has been raised in another thread, what is the majority view of the NT by Christians, fact or mythos

cheers

The bible is a book of historical fact. The accounts are factual, the people are factual, the places are factual, the timing is precise and calculable and the events are factual as archeology has proved.

Jesus is as real an historical figure as Alexander the Great.
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
Do you believe that Jesus actually existed, or do you think it is just a 'mythos'? Do other Christians you know believe in the NT as fact or myths just to relate stories?

This question has been raised in another thread, what is the majority view of the NT by Christians, fact or mythos

cheers

I think there was a man reminiscent of Jesus, but that most of his life is shrouded in fantasy and borrowed mythology.

That, and Jesus Barabbas was probably the real Jesus, to a degree.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I think there was a man reminiscent of Jesus, but that most of his life is shrouded in fantasy and borrowed mythology.

That, and Jesus Barabbas was probably the real Jesus, to a degree.


?????? Explain... I thought Barabbas was just another prisoner who was released instead of Jesus. Are you sure you have interpreted the scripture properly?
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
?????? Explain... I thought Barabbas was just another prisoner who was released instead of Jesus. Are you sure you have interpreted the scripture properly?

I can't be sure of anything, but I can note that Barabbas is a transliteration of Bar-Abba, or "son of the Father". And his name was also Jesus. And that he was referred to as having taken place in a riot, which Jesus Christ had as well: the temple.

Perhaps it was a parable, saying the crowd wanted Jesus as revolutionary, not Jesus as pacifist.
 

mycorrhiza

Well-Known Member
Jesus probably existed. It seems more likely that he was a leader for a small religious group than that a religious group formed and decided to invent a fictional leader. I don't believe that he had extraordinary powers or was resurrected, though. It's not really uncommon for religious leaders, even in our time, to be ascribed supernatural abilities.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I can't be sure of anything, but I can note that Barabbas is a transliteration of Bar-Abba, or "son of the Father". And his name was also Jesus. And that he was referred to as having taken place in a riot, which Jesus Christ had as well: the temple.

Perhaps it was a parable, saying the crowd wanted Jesus as revolutionary, not Jesus as pacifist.

It's an interesting theory. If you're correct then someone really messed up on the translation, though, as contextually it implies two different people.
As a parable, though, perhaps you're right.
 

Nerthus

Wanderlust
Faith isn't certainty.

I have faith that Jesus was fact, and that the the NT is fact.
 
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RJ50

Active Member
The bible is a book of historical fact. The accounts are factual, the people are factual, the places are factual, the timing is precise and calculable and the events are factual as archeology has proved.

Jesus is as real an historical figure as Alexander the Great.

Of course the Bible isn't a historical FACT. There is much more evidence for Alexander the Great and what he is supposed to have achieved than ever there is for Jesus. the guy probably existed but I don't reckon much that is claimed for him by his followers has much truth behind the claims.
 

SageTree

Spiritual Friend
Premium Member
(All in my own opinion of course, and no discredit to all the great people in and of Christianity, I am just speaking very honestly,no harm intended, so please don't jump down my throat...to hard. ;))

I come to you as some sort of Christian, for sure.
A very Universally Minded one... perhaps best said.
I imagine I come in on Stage Left in the Church.
I come from a Mystical practice with Christianity.
But I come to you truthfully from my Heart.

Christianity has become a Religion ABOUT Jesus...
And less of a Religion OF Jesus.

Therefore, I feel that Christianity is the Myth... not negatively intended.

I think the 'Christ/Word/Divinity' that permeated the existence of Jesus is Real....
Even if Jesus himself was not, for all I know he could have just be an embodiment of an one Ideally Attuned to God, to teach people how to live.

My experience leads me to believe it's God gift of the 'Messiah/Christ/-Consciousness'...
to die to our Self and Rise up, Growing into God's Way, which Liberates us from our bonds of cyclic existence.

With that Existence filling us we can act in ways that show people what Heaven is like, here on Earth,
just like Mark's Jesus did, with his miracles, as he foretold the coming of the Kingdom.
IE. Heal the sick/There will be no sick; Heal the blind/lame/There will be no blind/sick.

Our miracles might not be as extraordinary or long lasting... but we, with our life, might help a person have a taste of that Peace, Love and Comfort of Knowing the Divine,
even if just for a few moments.

Furthermore, for me, Christmas isn't just about the Christ-child born that day (on which is celebrated),
I feel it's about Celebrating the Christ born each moment in each of us as we consciously submit and take refuge to our Inner Christ...
(Christ... which I feel is bigger than just Christianity. Maybe that is another topic though. :eek:)
Whom is attuned, ready and waiting for us to Awaken and Know.
 
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Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
I think he existed. I don't think he was divine, but rather an enlightened being, a yogi, if you will, and of course a great teacher.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Of course the Bible isn't a historical FACT. There is much more evidence for Alexander the Great and what he is supposed to have achieved than ever there is for Jesus.

Really ? Such as what? You realize that the existence of Jesus is not totally unfounded, right? How much Biblical commentary have you read?
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Pleinmont said:
Unfortunately for me I was raised by parents who believed in the fundamentalist version of Christianity, 'get 'saved' or go to hell' I did the 'saved' bit when I was 11, and for awhile was quite devout, even though I never had any sense a deity actually existed. Thank goodness by the time I left home, when I married at 19, the doubts about this unpleasant version of Christianity were overwhelming and I lost my faith entirely. I am now 62 and don't miss it in th eslightest degree. I feel very sorry for young people still being brought up to believe in that awful dogma. I have no problem with mainstream Christians who have a live and let live approach to their faith, and who don't seek to impose it on others.
Pleinmont, as you probably realize some really awesome people like you are Christians kids who are in the same situation you were. Some great kids are going to suffer, and I want to encourage you to get involved in changing things for the better. Its easy to write fundamentalists off as a loss, but fundamentalists have a lot of untapped potential that just needs salvaging. Salvaging lives is true religion. Christian kids are a great resource with enormous potential that is currently being left to rot, mainly because of factionalism. Let us salvage everything salvageable and not give up on people. I understand many mainstream Christians have a 'Live & let live' attitude, and that's great but its still not enough to stop the worm in the apple barrel. Factionalism must be met head on and stopped in order to help kids (like you when you were eleven). The Bible's stories will again take on their proper meaning and stop being about 'Whether snakes can talk' or 'Did Adam have a naval?' All of that Christian training becomes useful, meaningful and properly contextualized to help kids come to grips with life. They can benefit from the wisdom and be drawn into moral discussions and life preparation, as well as an appreciation for people in other walks of life.
 
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RJ50

Active Member
Really ? Such as what? You realize that the existence of Jesus is not totally unfounded, right? How much Biblical commentary have you read?

I have read the Bible many times and still do. Biblical commentary is only an opinion, and no one has any more idea about Jesus and what he is supposed to have actually done than anyone else.
 

I r Baboon

Egalitarian Epicureanist
The bible is a book of historical fact. The accounts are factual, the people are factual, the places are factual, the timing is precise and calculable and the events are factual as archeology has proved.

Jesus is as real an historical figure as Alexander the Great.

So what do we base this upon? How do we know the Jesus of the Bible is fact?
 
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