Question for Christians

[Brother2]

:bow: Hello everyone. Wonderful to have a Forum where everyone can express themselves on Religion.

My view is that Jesus Christ is God so He is also the Creator, He is also the God of Israel and the Old Testament Wars and is the Coming King to set everything and everyone straight.

So when we talk about the Bible we are talking about the Word that was made Flesh, the Lord Jesus Christ. He quoted the Old Testament when here on earth as they were the Scriptures of the time.

God does not change and is the only being in the Universe who is Immortal, He knows the end from the beginning..........and best of all?? He is also our Heavenly Father who loves us eternally and gave His life in our place so that Pardon can be written beside our names when we give our lives to Him and Accept his free gift of salvation.

God of course is three, Father Son and Holy Spirit, yet all act as One. No beginning no ending; just about impossible for our minds to compute.

Shalom. May God bless all here. brother2.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Psalm 90v2 says God is from everlasting meaning no beginning or ending.
According to Revelation 3v14b Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God.
There is no Scripture that says Jesus was before the beginning.
Only God was before the beginning.

According to Colossians 1vs15,16 Jesus is the 'firstborn' in the heavens and all things were created through Jesus. God was not born anywhere.

God can not die. Jesus died. God resurrected Jesus. Jesus did not resurrect himself.

While on earth Jesus believed he had a God over him. [John 20v17]. Decades after being resurrected by God to heaven at Revelation 3v12 Jesus still believed he had a God over him. Jesus still calls himself the Son of God at Rev 2v18.

The Word [Logos], Not God, was made flesh. Jesus was God's spokesman or God's Word.

Doesn't God grant or give Jesus immortality at John [5v26] to have life within?
Also those called to heavenly life to rule with Jesus at 1st Corinthians [15v53,54] must put on immortality. The rest, as Adam originally had, will have everlasting or eternal life on earth. Immortality means death proof. Everlasting life comes with conditions. Adam had to have the breath of life to keep on living besides eating, etc. So life on eternal life on earth is conditional to physical conditions besides obedience to God.

Besides Jesus saying at John [14v28] that his Father is greater than him; at John [10v36] Jesus says of himself that: I [Jesus] am the Son of God. No where does Jesus, nor his followers, say he is God.

 

[zaph'nath-paan'eah]

Peace be upon you.

The All Testament talk about Jesus coming.
The All Testament are testimony of the Creation and life before the Law and after the Law give by Mosses.

These are to be read as testimony and as individual books and not by taking verse and insert into others verse.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I'm kinda a heretical Christian, so maybe my opinion don't count.

I don't use the OT as scripture relating to me. The OT is full of violence and bloodlust, and if God is truly like that, I can't see how anyone would want anything to do with God. The OT contains wisdom literature such as Psalms and Proverbs, but that's about the only nice part. I believe the prophets were trying to get the ancient Israelites to see they were wrong about God. Jesus said they murdered all the prophets too in addition to all the people they massacred and enacted genocide upon.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I believe the prophets were trying to get the ancient Israelites to see they were wrong about God. Jesus said they murdered all the prophets too in addition to all the people they massacred and enacted genocide upon.

Please see Matthew 23v35 [Rev 18v24] because Jesus was referring, not to the ancient Israelites in general, but Jesus was blaming the false religious leaders for the blood shed on earth.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Um- Jerusalem, city that kills all the prophets

 

[Rainbow Mage]

URAVIP2ME have you ever read the martyrdom accounts of any of the prophets? Now, provided you, they are apocryphal works, but even the apocrypha books have some level of value. The prophets were ultimately abandoned and left to die by their followers, much in the same way as Jesus, they turned on him when the Pharisees did. Like when they sawed Isaiah in half, the people were looking on cheering.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Um- Jerusalem, city that kills all the prophets

However, not the 'new' Jerusalem of Revelation 21v2.
Earthly Jerusalem was the seat of government over the people but in the end proved false to God and his Messiah.

New or heavenly Jerusalem's blessings comes down out of heaven from the God of Jesus according to Rev 3v12. This new Jerusalem will be with 'men or mankind' as Rev 21v3 says, and as old earthly Jerusalem was the seat of government, so too heavenly new Jerusalem with have kings and priests [Rev 5,9,10] to rule over earth, but these heavenly kings and priests prove faithful to God and his crowned King Christ Jesus as king of God's kingdom who will usher in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.

 

[Bick]

Why do Christians consider the Old Testament as scripture relating to them? I don't get it . There is so much in there that is clearly not relevant to the teaching of Christ like warring against other cultures, killing everyone and taking their land.

You won't find Jesus Christ instructing His disciples to engage in such barbaric conduct. Reminds me more of extremist Islam than Christianity.

MY COMMENTS: It is true, that the only Scriptures during Jesus earthly ministry was the Hebrew Scriptures, and, from what I've read, it is very probable he quoted from the Septuagent.

I believe that "all scripture is inspired of God", as we read in 2 Tim. 3:16, "and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work," NRSV.

There is so much history in the Hebrew Scriptures, along with many examples of individuals showing faith, love, hope and many other principles that we can read about and be encouraged in our walk.

Acrually, in my opinion, the same could be said of Jesus earthly ministry as recorded in the Gospels.

Today, we in the church/body of Christ should live by the principles set forth, but not apply them as "laws" or "commandments" today.

Paul is our apostle and his words set forth the doctrines for the church/body.

Having said that, I basically agree with your opening paragraph, but, do not believe that all His commandments should be applied literally to us today.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

REPLY: Paul is our apostle....

and Paul said at Hebrews [3v1] that Jesus is not only High Priest but Apostle.

 

[Muffled]

I'm kinda a heretical Christian, so maybe my opinion don't count.

I don't use the OT as scripture relating to me. The OT is full of violence and bloodlust, and if God is truly like that, I can't see how anyone would want anything to do with God. The OT contains wisdom literature such as Psalms and Proverbs, but that's about the only nice part. I believe the prophets were trying to get the ancient Israelites to see they were wrong about God. Jesus said they murdered all the prophets too in addition to all the people they massacred and enacted genocide upon.

As a heretic myself, I will most likely find your opinions interesting.

God is like that and I am glad. It means that He is good. If He allowed wickedness to prosper I would have a big problem with it. Granted that this world is all about allowing evil but with the intention of redemption. He doesn't have to allow evil but does because He is seeking good from those who practice it.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

God is like that and I am glad. It means that He is good. If He allowed wickedness to prosper I would have a big problem with it. Granted that this world is all about allowing evil but with the intention of redemption. He doesn't have to allow evil but does because He is seeking good from those who practice it.

True. This world of badness is all about allowing evil. But the righteous world to come will be about the absence of evil. Psalm 92v7 shows when the world of this time comes to the point that wickedness is covering the globe just as grass or vegetation does then we know it is God's time to intervene into mankind's affairs and have Jesus rid this world of badness off the face of the earth and usher in Peace on earth toward men of goodwill.
-Isaiah 11v4; Rev. 19vs11,14,15

Jesus will gather together nations, so to speak, [Matt 52vs31,21] and Jesus will separate people as a shepherd separates the sheep from goats. Only those people [sheep] placed at Jesus right hand of favor, so to speak, will continue to remain alive and keep right on living into Jesus peaceful 1000-year rule over earth with everlasting life in view.

 

[jtartar]

Why do Christians consider the Old Testament as scripture relating to them? I don't get it . There is so much in there that is clearly not relevant to the teaching of Christ like warring against other cultures, killing everyone and taking their land.

You won't find Jesus Christ instructing His disciples to engage in such barbaric conduct. Reminds me more of extremist Islam than Christianity.

comradesoul,
In the first place, did you know that the Hebrew word used for Old Testament, actually meant, Old Covenant. The New Testament also means New Covenant.
Many people believe that the Old Testament is irrelevant. Not much could be further from the truth!!! Without the Old Testament we would not have the KEY to understanding the New Testament. Many things had their beginning in the OT that culminate in the NT. The fact is that most of the Mosaic Law Covenant forshowed the coming and actions of Jesus.
The very best history is written in the Holy Scriptures. I am like most Bible readers, I do not enjoy reading some of the books like Chronicles, BUT these are the history of the Israelites, Jews.
Did you know that the word of God has been translated so accurrately that the chronlogical dates right back to Adam can be followed. We have a date, called a Pivotal date, the date of the fall of Babylon, 539BCE, that is accepted as accurate by both Religious Scholars and Historians. From the date 539 it is possible to follow the stream of time back to Adam who was created in 4026BCE.
Just like the Christian Greek Scriptures, the Hebrew Scriptures have a theme, called The Golden Thread, which is the Kingdom of God, and of the place of Jesus as King of that Kingdom.
Many of the Hebrew Books prophesy about the coming of a Messiah who would asve the people. This Messiah turned out to be Jesus, The Christ. Daniel gave a prophecy so specific, The Seventy Weeks Prophecy, that the Jews were looking for the Messiah, when he came, Dan 9:24-27, Luke 3:15.
Jesus mentions a place he called Gehenna. The Hebrew Scriptures tells us that it is a garbage dump ove the Western wall of Jerusalem. Gehenna came to symbloize Everlasting Death, that is the reason that Jesus warned about those who died going to Gehenna. Remember, it would be usless to warn people of the regular grave, since all are going there.
The Beasts of Revelation can only be correctly understood by searching the Prophetic Book of Daniel, Daniel, chapters 7,8, Rev chapter 13.
The bood of Daniel also tells us the time period that is mentioned at Luke 21:24, the times of the gentiles, what is called the March of the Nations, Dan chapters 2 & 4. The Bible even tells us that there is only going to be seven world powers, and that the seventh is the Anglo-American World power, soon to be destroyed, Dan 2:30-45.
Just contemplate Genesis. Here we are told how God created Adam, why we now die, about the flood, why we speak so many languages, the sanctity of blood, so many things.
There are many other things that are made clear by a study of The Old Covenant, The Hebrew Scriptures. To me Daniel is the most interesting of all the Hebrew Scriptures. If anyone can deny that God is guiding this world toward His final purpose, this book can change your faith in God.
We are able to understand what Babylon the Great symbolizes, by a study of Old Babylon, Rev chapter 17,18.

 

[Muffled]

True. This world of badness is all about allowing evil. But the righteous world to come will be about the absence of evil. Psalm 92v7 shows when the world of this time comes to the point that wickedness is covering the globe just as grass or vegetation does then we know it is God's time to intervene into mankind's affairs and have Jesus rid this world of badness off the face of the earth and usher in Peace on earth toward men of goodwill.
-Isaiah 11v4; Rev. 19vs11,14,15

Jesus will gather together nations, so to speak, [Matt 52vs31,21] and Jesus will separate people as a shepherd separates the sheep from goats. Only those people [sheep] placed at Jesus right hand of favor, so to speak, will continue to remain alive and keep right on living into Jesus peaceful 1000-year rule over earth with everlasting life in view.

Although it is true that the Kingdom of God on earth will begin after the wickedness of the world is punished, that is probably not the reason since God has destroyed people off the earth before (except a remnant) without setting up the kingdom. In order to reward the just by giving them a world free of evil, He has to exclude those who are evil from entering it. However God is merciful to those who are evil allowing them back in after a long time. For those who really hate evil and need a rest from it or from the flesh, there is Heaven.

 

[DeitySlayer]

Here we are told how God created Adam, why we now die, about the flood, why we speak so many languages, the sanctity of blood, so many things.

Which are all patently wrong, if read literally.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Although it is true that the Kingdom of God on earth will begin after the wickedness of the world is punished, that is probably not the reason since God has destroyed people off the earth before (except a remnant) without setting up the kingdom. In order to reward the just by giving them a world free of evil, He has to exclude those who are evil from entering it. However God is merciful to those who are evil allowing them back in after a long time. For those who really hate evil and need a rest from it or from the flesh, there is Heaven.

How is unforgiven in this world and the next allowing back?

Isn't the unforgivable sin of Matthew 12v32 ;Hebrews 6vs4-6 permanent?

 

[12jtartar]

Why do Christians consider the Old Testament as scripture relating to them? I don't get it . There is so much in there that is clearly not relevant to the teaching of Christ like warring against other cultures, killing everyone and taking their land.

You won't find Jesus Christ instructing His disciples to engage in such barbaric conduct. Reminds me more of extremist Islam than Christianity.

comradesoul,
There are many things that must be understood about the Hebrew Scriptures. The Hebrew Scriptures, especially the Mosaic Law Coveneant pointed to the Messiah, Christ. The entire Hebrew Scriptures contain, what is called, The Golden Thread, which is the story of The Kingdom that winds through all the Hebrew Scriptures, Hebrews 10:1.
I realize that a lot of the Hebrew Scriptures seem bloody, and to many of us some things might seem unfair, as the taking of other's lands and the killing of the ones who would not surrender.
Now, stop a minute and think about these things, what we're all these things written for?? Why does Jesus seem so different from his Father, even though Jesus said, if you have seen him, you have seen the Father, John 14:9.
Here is what these things mean to this generation. In the first century, Jesus came to give his life as a Ransom Sacrifice for everyone who would believe in him, John 3:16-18, Matthew 20:28, 1Timothy 2:4,5.
The things that happened in the days of the Isrealites are pictures foreshadowing our days. The Jews went into the promised land and destroyed all who would not surrender to them. Remember all lands belong to God!!! When Jesus comes again he will do the same to people all over the earth, because the earth belongs to God, and just like the promised land for the Jews, Jesus will clear all people off the earth who do not worship God. Think about that!!! The times of the Jews were foreshadowing the time of the end, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 21:34,35, Jeremiah 25:29-33.

 

[RabbiO]

comradesoul,
There are many things that must be understood......................

Why would you respond to a poster by name, as if you believe your response will be viewed by that poster, when that poster has not been on the forum for over 6 years?

 

[Muffled]

Which are all patently wrong, if read literally.

I believe one will be hard put to show what is wrong. It seems to me the OT has a great deal that is right in it. However I do believe men can develop wrong concepts from the OT. I wouldn't be surprised if you had a few.

 

[Muffled]

How is unforgiven in this world and the next allowing back?

Isn't the unforgivable sin of Matthew 12v32 ;Hebrews 6vs4-6 permanent?

I believe there is a theory in Buddhism that time is in cycles ie that there is a cycle of good then a cycle of evil. This isn't how God showed it to me. He said that time remains and is circular so that the end connects to the beginning. This would explain why Einstein thought time was warped. He was just seeing part of the circle. So basically the times of evil and good exist.