Question for the Evangelical Community

[e.r.m.]

Your welcome. Hope it helps a bit.

It does.

 

[metis]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!! It's true Metis, it's true!!!!

Uh oh... wait a minute... I'm have a revelation here... an epiphany is just downloading...

MY MESSAGE IS A JEWISH MESSAGE!!!

LOL!!!

You're too much, and I love it!

Oh, wait a minute-- that can be taken the wrong way.

 

[Muffled]

I realize answers may vary greatly, but in your church, how much time is spent teaching the congregation how one is saved, breaking the scriptures down and giving a full lesson? Is this topic largley left alone because it's so simple and "understood", or does your leadership treat this topic as something they really want their congregations to understand well? This is not a thread on how one gets saved. I want to understand how different evangelical leaderships handle teaching this topic.

Thank you.

My pastor follows the SBC teaching schedule out of a book let which goes through selected passages one book at a time n Suday school. He preaches on a short text continually going through a book at a time and never fails to explain and call for salvation.

 

[Muffled]

I agree that it is an individual responsibility, but I have found that individuals largely follow their leaders direction and leaders must give an account Hebrews 13:17. When leaders stress the importance of understanding how one gets saved, a greater percentage of their congregation follows suit, and the reverse plays out as well.

I think where it makes a difference is the instance of a churchgoer as I was when young but not saved. Sometimes the cobwebs and lack of understanding have to be swept away to prepare the ground for salvation. I was visiting a Baptist church in the Pittsburgh, PA area because I had attended a wedding there and heard the preacher say that one does not have to become perfect to be saved just come as you are. I thought I needed to clean up my act before coming to God. I didn't become saved because of that preaching but it did remove an obstacle to my salvation.

A similar situation happened after I was saved. I went to Baptismal classes but it sounded like I had to agree with all the doctrines before I could be baptized. When I was finally baptized seven years later I was only required to testify of my salvation.

 

[Muffled]

In conservative Presbyterian churches it is not preached much. It is a basic doctrine that is universally accepted in reformed theology. Members accept it, visitor come to accept it or find another church.

The main emphasis in reformed theology is to teach the Bible sod that we may know God better and better know what He expects of His children.

I believe I attended that kind of Presbyterian Church and never heard a call for salvation. I went through the booklet on Calvinist beliefs and found many things I disagreed with but I was not asked to leave. When I left it was not due to a lack of anything in the church but simply the Holy Spirit leading me in a new direction.

I am pretty sure that there are some Presbyterian churches that are more evangelical.

 

[omega2xx]

I believe I attended that kind of Presbyterian Church and never heard a call for salvation. I went through the booklet on Calvinist beliefs and found many things I disagreed with but I was not asked to leave. When I left it was not due to a lack of anything in the church but simply the Holy Spirit leading me in a new direction.

I am pretty sure that there are some Presbyterian churches that are more evangelical.

Conservative Presbyterian churches do not have altar calls. Altar calls are not Biblical. There is a lot of difficult theology in Calvinism. It takes a lot of serious study to understand it. I don't accept it all, they know it, and they still let me teach.

Except for 2 doctrines, Calvin does reference Scripture for what He says.

Would you mind telling m e what road the Holy Spirit took you to?

 

[Kenny]

Conservative Presbyterian churches do not have altar calls. Altar calls are not Biblical.

I;m not sure I would go that far... Peter's first sermon had an altar call.

If it isn't Biblical, I'm so glad God didn't care when my wife and I along with her sister gave our lives at an altar call.

 

[e.r.m.]

My pastor follows the SBC teaching schedule out of a book let which goes through selected passages one book at a time n Suday school. He preaches on a short text continually going through a book at a time and never fails to explain and call for salvation.

How deeply does he explain salvation?

 

[e.r.m.]

I;m not sure I would go that far... Peter's first sermon had an altar call.

If it isn't Biblical, I'm so glad God didn't care when my wife and I along with her sister gave our lives at an altar call.

There was no altar at Pentecost or prearranged area for people to walk into, and no special emotional altar call music. He gave a message, the people believed and were baptized into Christ.

 

[e.r.m.]

Conservative Presbyterian churches do not have altar calls. Altar calls are not Biblical. There is a lot of difficult theology in Calvinism. It takes a lot of serious study to understand it. I don't accept it all, they know it, and they still let me teach.

Except for 2 doctrines, Calvin does reference Scripture for what He says.

Would you mind telling m e what road the Holy Spirit took you to?

Calvin had his friend Michael Servetus killed and then later disparaged him in his writings (no remorse). Enough for me anyway to dismiss everything he taught.

 

[e.r.m.]

I believe I attended that kind of Presbyterian Church and never heard a call for salvation. I went through the booklet on Calvinist beliefs and found many things I disagreed with but I was not asked to leave. When I left it was not due to a lack of anything in the church but simply the Holy Spirit leading me in a new direction.

I am pretty sure that there are some Presbyterian churches that are more evangelical.

Thank you.

 

[Kenny]

There was no altar at Pentecost or prearranged area for people to walk into, and no special emotional altar call music. He gave a message, the people believed and were baptized into Christ.

Don't disagree at all but I don't think that one can translate that into that it can't be done.

Music is supposed to be used for God (Ps 150). The prophet asked of a minstrel to help him at that moment and it brought God's presence. Music as played at the moment of a dedication of a Temple.

I think there is a place for it... not a requirement but certainly a blessing. IMO

If I am not mistaken, at every Sabbath songs were sung along with teaching.

 

[e.r.m.]

I think where it makes a difference is the instance of a churchgoer as I was when young but not saved. Sometimes the cobwebs and lack of understanding have to be swept away to prepare the ground for salvation. I was visiting a Baptist church in the Pittsburgh, PA area because I had attended a wedding there and heard the preacher say that one does not have to become perfect to be saved just come as you are. I thought I needed to clean up my act before coming to God. I didn't become saved because of that preaching but it did remove an obstacle to my salvation.

A similar situation happened after I was saved. I went to Baptismal classes but it sounded like I had to agree with all the doctrines before I could be baptized. When I was finally baptized seven years later I was only required to testify of my salvation.

At a wedding they can't be expected to delve into it deeply.

 

[roger1440]

And, btw, all other churches, denominations, and religions really don't understand and/or observe well enough, but we've got the answers!".

I was going to write the same thing but you beat me to it.

 

[e.r.m.]

Don't disagree at all but I don't think that one can translate that into that it can't be done.

Music is supposed to be used for God (Ps 150). The prophet asked of a minstrel to help him at that moment and it brought God's presence. Music as played at the moment of a dedication of a Temple.

I think there is a place for it... not a requirement but certainly a blessing. IMO

If I am not mistaken, at every Sabbath songs were sung along with teaching.

I agree there's a place for music and I'm not against music done well. But I also think the way Peter delivered his message far out did how altar calls are done, sans music.

 

[omega2xx]

I;m not sure I would go that far... Peter's first sermon had an altar call.

If you are u sing Acts 2:21 as your source, I didn't see Peter say "come on down."

If it isn't Biblical, I'm so glad God didn't care when my wife and I along with her sister gave our lives at an altar call.

Coming down didn't save you. The reason you answered the call was because you were already saved. I am not saying altar calls is a bad thing, just not a Biblical thing. It was really nice and meaningful that you and your wife did it together.

 

[omega2xx]

Calvin had his friend Michael Servetus killed and then later disparaged him in his writings (no remorse). Enough for me anyway to dismiss everything he taught.

We all do some non-Christians things. ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

First of all I am not a Calvinist. I am a born again Christian who accepts the reformed view of Scripture(sola scriptura), much of which does does come from the teachings of Calvin.

Why would you dismiss the things he says that are supported by Scripture?

 

[e.r.m.]

We all do some non-Christians things. ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

First of all I am not a Calvinist. I am a born again Christian who accepts the reformed view of Scripture(sola scriptura), much of which does does come from the teachings of Calvin.

Why would you dismiss the things he says that are supported by Scripture?

1. Cause I really REALLY don't like bullies.
2. Whatever he does teach from the Bible, I can get elsewhere, particularly the Bible.

 

[omega2xx]

1. Cause I really REALLY don't like bullies.

2. Whatever he does teach from the Bible, I can get elsewhere, particularly the Bible.

You can't get some of his teachings just reading the Bible. He was a scroundal, but He was also a brilliant Bible scholar. Don't let your prejudice keep you from listening to him.

 

[Deeje]

There was no altar at Pentecost or prearranged area for people to walk into, and no special emotional altar call music. He gave a message, the people believed and were baptized into Christ.

There is much in Christianity that is borrowed from the old Jewish system. That system was used to picture the heavenly arrangement. (Colossians 2:16-19) There were no alters...no priests (or clergy class).....no rituals.....and no temples (cathedrals) in original Christianity. Those things were heavenly and the priesthood was yet future at that time.

Following the Biblical example, it seems as if there was knowledge imparted to one who wanted to become a disciple of Christ and on the basis of that knowledge, (not a fleeting emotional response) one willingly made a dedication to God through Christ. The operation of God's spirit was also part of this process.

When Paul and Silas were arrested for preaching, they were praying and praising God with song when an earthquake opened the prison cell doors. The jailer, imagining that he would be severely punished for allowing his prisoners to escape, was about to commit suicide when Paul and Silas revealed that they had not gone anywhere. (Acts 16:25-34) In great gratitude for the honesty of his charges, he led them outside and asked “Sirs, what must I do to get saved?”....they answered....“Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the message of the Lord to him along with everyone in his house. 33 He took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds. Right away he and all his family were baptized. 34 He brought them into his house, set a meal before them, and rejoiced because he had believed God with his entire household."

Before baptism, this man and his household received "the message of the Lord" and made a decision to become Christians, based on that knowledge. Baptism followed.

The whole idea of "preaching" was to impart knowledge. All Christians should be preachers. (Matthew 10:11-15)

Paul wrote....Romans 10:13-15..."For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. But how can they call on Him they have not believed in? And how can they believe without hearing about Him? are the feet of those who announce the gospel of good things!"

The one who received that knowledge with understanding and was motivated to do something about it (like the jailer), did so at the urging of God's holy spirit. (John 6:44) Not everyone receives that urging, however. The parables Jesus gave explain why. (Matthew 13:18-23) Not all hearts will receive the message willingly and those who do receive it, after some persecution or hardship can have it snatched away.

Music was used to praise God all through the history of his worshippers, but it was never used to encourage emotion without the knowledge to back up one's conviction. To teach people that salvation can come about just by 'feelings' is to mislead them. Knowledge of God's word is the basis for salvation. God is a teacher...his son was a teacher

We have to know what we are getting "saved" from.....why we need salvation.....and on what basis God grants it.

Emotions are transient things, not deeply rooted in 'good soil', they can be easily uprooted and blown away by deception......the god of deception, who rules this world has the ability to "blind the minds" of those he can deceive. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4; 1 John 5:19) We need to understand that not everything is as it seems in his world. This is why we need knowledge, first and foremost.