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Question for theists

Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
L

loverOfTruth

Well-Known Member
Alceste said:
Lol "Sorry, I'm too busy to take five minutes to explain my opinion - why don't YOU spend two hours watching a video instead."

Your time must be much more valuable to you than everyone else's.
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Ok, sorry, may be I should have added 'in the mean time watch this video for more information(if interested)' ... no need for such silly mockery of people ...
 
Satyamavejayanti

Satyamavejayanti

Well-Known Member
Horrorble said:
What makes you SURE God exists?:angel2:
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GOD (old dude in the sky pointing fingers at what i do) does not exist,

But I am Sure OM/Brahman/Indra/Agni ect ect does exist, because as non-conscious material of this existence cannot form the gross Universe which has so much mathematical genius without a governing conscious entity that regulates and manages the Laws, How can i be sure is because Intelligence can see Intelligent design, Non intelligent inert unconscious material cannot recognize its own existence let alone the existence of something other then itself.

hence GOD does not exist.

that is how i put it.
 
Pegg

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Horrorble said:
But how are you sure of the source?
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what makes me confident that the bible gives us the correct explanation of the God?

i would say its because every bible writer was persecuted for doing so. Every biblical prophet was chased out of towns and ridiculed and threatened with death (many killed by the sword) simply for being the message bearer.

who in their right mind would bring a false message under such circumstances? We tend to try to protect ourselves and better our lives... but the prophets suffered miserably for being prophets.

To me that says a lot about their character and the message they brought. If it was a false message, then why would they put themselves in danger? And why were they so confident to deliver a message that people would hate them for? It could only have been because they really did have affirmation from God to go and tell the message.
 
Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Pegg said:
what makes me confident that the bible gives us the correct explanation of the God?

i would say its because every bible writer was persecuted for doing so. Every biblical prophet was chased out of towns and ridiculed and threatened with death (many killed by the sword) simply for being the message bearer.

who in their right mind would bring a false message under such circumstances? We tend to try to protect ourselves and better our lives... but the prophets suffered miserably for being prophets.

To me that says a lot about their character and the message they brought. If it was a false message, then why would they put themselves in danger? And why were they so confident to deliver a message that people would hate them for? It could only have been because they really did have affirmation from God to go and tell the message.
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How is that the ONLY explanation? Just because they believed beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were delivering a true message doesn't mean that it actually was.

Besides, I can think of at least one Biblical prophet who wasn't persecuted for being a prophet: Jonah.
 
Pegg

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Riverwolf said:
How is that the ONLY explanation? Just because they believed beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were delivering a true message doesn't mean that it actually was.

Besides, I can think of at least one Biblical prophet who wasn't persecuted for being a prophet: Jonah.
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Jonah didnt want to deliver the message.... he tried to run away from the assignment.

These were not people who were simply making up stories in the hope to derive a following for themselves.
 
Debater Slayer

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Pegg said:
Jonah didnt want to deliver the message.... he tried to run away from the assignment.

These were not people who were simply making up stories in the hope to derive a following for themselves.
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Muhammad and people who followed him were persecuted for a while, too. Why do you not regard Islam as a true religion because of that?
 
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Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Pegg said:
Jonah didnt want to deliver the message.... he tried to run away from the assignment.
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My point stands that not all Biblical prophets were persecuted for being so, as you claimed.

These were not people who were simply making up stories in the hope to derive a following for themselves.
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I'm not claiming they are, and I don't believe they are. Sure, they're after a following, but I don't believe they're just making up stories.
 
Pegg

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Mohammad was one doing the persecuting too.

He was a warrior with an army behind him. That is quite a contrast to the single solitary figure sent by God to deliver a message. In the bible, God does the fighting, not the prophet.
 
Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Pegg said:
Mohammad was one doing the persecuting too.

He was a warrior with an army behind him. That is quite a contrast to the single solitary figure sent by God to deliver a message. In the bible, God does the fighting, not the prophet.
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And thus it's also God doing the persecuting.
 
Pegg

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Riverwolf said:
I'm not claiming they are, and I don't believe they are. Sure, they're after a following, but I don't believe they're just making up stories.
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actually they weren't after a following. Biblical prophets were telling the Isrealites to return to the worship of God and return to his laws. They weren't trying to make new religions or be guru's.
 
Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Pegg said:
actually they weren't after a following. Biblical prophets were telling the Isrealites to return to the worship of God and return to his laws. They weren't trying to make new religions or be guru's.
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1. Technically, they were being Gurus, since the word Guru translates to "remover of darkness", and generally refers to teachers, which the prophets were.

2. What you're describing involves people "following" what they say, and thus have a "following." You don't need to invent a new religion to do that, just look at the old one and try to bring it back... much like a lot of people are trying to do now with pre-Christian native beliefs of Europe, and, wait for it, are being persecuted for it.
 
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