Question not debate

[Amhairghine]

As a sceptic, I often wonder why God is called good, but Satan is called Evil.

Having read the Bible (KJV) cover to cover more than once, and some passages a 100 times, something strikes me as odd.

If Satan is evil, why was his only evil action tormenting Job with God's approval. What did Satan do that was bad?

If God is the Good counterpart of Satan, why do all Old Testament stories have God as the killer?

1. Noah's Flood killing millions of people, and a million million non-human animals because some adult humans sinned, does not sound like a good Cosmic Creator.

2. Egyptian Plagues were notable for the killing of thousands or hundreds of thousands of Egyptians because Pharaoh refused each of Moses' requests to let the Jews emigrate. God hardened Pharaoh’s heart to push him into denial of Jewish release so he could send another devastating plague. Is that good?

3. God ordered Israelite Desert Raiders to take settled cities and kill men, women, children, and babies. City dwellers (carpenters, blacksmiths, farmers, artisans, clothiers, market owners, and children) would be no match for the heavily armoured battle hardened Israelite storm troopers who murdered everyone in the city...but allowed by God to take virgin girls as sex slaves. Is that good? Why in Hosea 13:16 does the author talk about ripping open the bellies of pregnant women and why do they speak of smashing babies' head against the stone. To me this is unequivocally evil.

4. In the Garden of Eden, it was the serpent (Satan?) who urged Eve and Adam to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge (i.e. seek to learn knowledge.) He was urging them to inquire, study, and learn, He was urging them to pull themselves out of ignorance to learn about the world around them. Why did God forbid Adam and Eve from learning and further evolving? How is God good by ordering permanent ignorance for humanity?

I will not belabour the point but why do you who believe, considered God to be good and worthy of trust but not Satan. The Bible made me question this starting in grade 3. Nobody has ever explained this to me.

Note: History shows that the Cathars (having been to Palestine in the Crusades) preached a heresy that Named JHWY as Satan the God of the Old Testament, an evil God. They named Jesus as the Good god who came to drive Satan-JHWY back into Hell. I did not say that. It is the rational Bible inspired faith in which Cathars/Albigensians/Bogomils believed. For taking the Bible so literally, they were killed by Simon de Montfort’s Papal Crusade.

How do Christians deal with the Biblical charges of an evil God?

Amhairghine (I happen to be an admirer of Jesus the man.)

 

[rusra02]

As a sceptic, I often wonder why God is called good, but Satan is called Evil.

Having read the Bible (KJV) cover to cover more than once, and some passages a 100 times, something strikes me as odd.

If Satan is evil, why was his only evil action tormenting Job with God's approval. What did Satan do that was bad?

Satan lied to Eve and caused her and Adam to rebel against God, violate his law, and bring death upon themselves and all their unborn offspring. I'd say that qualifies as consummate evil.

If God is the Good counterpart of Satan, why do all Old Testament stories have God as the killer?

1. Noah's Flood killing millions of people, and a million million non-human animals because some adult humans sinned, does not sound like a good Cosmic Creator.

The earth was filled with violence and 'ruined' according to the Bible account. Only a very small number paid due heed to God. As the Creator of life, God can rightly take that gift from those He chooses.

2. Egyptian Plagues were notable for the killing of thousands or hundreds of thousands of Egyptians because Pharaoh refused each of Moses' requests to let the Jews emigrate. God hardened Pharaoh’s heart to push him into denial of Jewish release so he could send another devastating plague. Is that good?

God allowed Pharoah to harden his own heart. God can use his creation according to his will. Pharoah used his free will to oppose God, and God permitted this to make his Name known and prove his Godship over Egypt's impotent gods.

3. God ordered Israelite Desert Raiders to take settled cities and kill men, women, children, and babies. City dwellers (carpenters, blacksmiths, farmers, artisans, clothiers, market owners, and children) would be no match for the heavily armoured battle hardened Israelite storm troopers who murdered everyone in the city...but allowed by God to take virgin girls as sex slaves. Is that good? Why in Hosea 13:16 does the author talk about ripping open the bellies of pregnant women and why do they speak of smashing babies' head against the stone. To me this is unequivocally evil.

Israel served as executioner of God's judgement against the wicked inhabitants of Canaan. Canaan became a land of idolatry, bloodshed, and degraded sexual practices. (Exodus 23:24; 34:12, 13; Numbers 33:52) The inhabitants of the land even killed children in sacrificial fires. Could a holy God expose his people to such wickedness? No! He declared: “The land is unclean, and I shall bring punishment for its error upon it, and the land will vomit its inhabitants out.” (Leviticus 18:21-25) Jehovah did not kill the people indiscriminately, however. Rightly disposed Canaanites, such as Rahab and the Gibeonites, were spared.—Joshua 6:25; 9:3-27.

Hosea was fortelling the outcome of the rebellious course of Samaria. The cruel Assyrians would do these things, not God.

4. In the Garden of Eden, it was the serpent (Satan?) who urged Eve and Adam to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge (i.e. seek to learn knowledge.) He was urging them to inquire, study, and learn, He was urging them to pull themselves out of ignorance to learn about the world around them. Why did God forbid Adam and Eve from learning and further evolving? How is God good by ordering permanent ignorance for humanity?

To the contrary, the tree of the knowledge of good and bad did not represent learning, something God gave the first man and woman capacity for. The tree represented God's authority to decide what is good and what is bad. Since God forbade eating from the tree, his command made it wrong to do so. Adam's and Eve's sin was thus a willful rebelling against God's sovereignty as well as theft.

I will not belabour the point but why do you who believe, considered God to be good and worthy of trust but not Satan. The Bible made me question this starting in grade 3. Nobody has ever explained this to me.

Note: History shows that the Cathars (having been to Palestine in the Crusades) preached a heresy that Named JHWY as Satan the God of the Old Testament, an evil God. They named Jesus as the Good god who came to drive Satan-JHWY back into Hell. I did not say that. It is the rational Bible inspired faith in which Cathars/Albigensians/Bogomils believed. For taking the Bible so literally, they were killed by Simon de Montfort’s Papal Crusade.

How do Christians deal with the Biblical charges of an evil God?


Amhairghine (I happen to be an admirer of Jesus the man.)

Without a doubt, those professed Christians of old and today who claim to follow Christ but disown him by their works bring reproach on the God they claim to serve.
However, God is righteous and true, loyal and faithful, perfect in all His ways. (Deuteronomy 32:4)

 

[McBell]

Satan lied to Eve

What lie was told to Eve by the serpent?

What makes you think that Satan and the serpent are one and the same.

Verses please.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

As a sceptic, I often wonder why God is called good, but Satan is called Evil.

Having read the Bible (KJV) cover to cover more than once, and some passages a 100 times, something strikes me as odd.

If Satan is evil, why was his only evil action tormenting Job with God's approval. What did Satan do that was bad?

If God is the Good counterpart of Satan, why do all Old Testament stories have God as the killer?

1. Noah's Flood killing millions of people, and a million million non-human animals because some humans sinned, does not sound like a good Cosmic Creator

2. Egyptian Plagues were notable for the killing of thousands or hundreds of thousands of Egyptians because Pharaoh refused each of Moses' requests to let the Jews emigrate. God hardened Pharaoh’s heart to push him into denial of Jewish release so he could send another devastating plague. Is that good?

3. God ordered Israelite Desert Raiders to take settled cities and kill men, women, children, and babies. City dwellers (carpenters, blacksmiths, farmers, artisans, clothiers, market owners, and children) would be no match for the heavily armoured battle hardened Israelite storm troopers who murdered everyone in the city...but allowed by God to take virgin girls as sex slaves. Is that good? Why in Hosea 13:16 does the author talk about ripping open the bellies of pregnant women and why do they speak of smashing babies' head against the stone. To me this is unequivocally evil.

4. In the Garden of Eden, it was the serpent (Satan?) who urged Eve and Adam to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge (i.e. seek to learn knowledge.) He was urging them to inquire, study, and learn, He was urging them to pull themselves out of ignorance to learn about the world around them. Why did God forbid Adam and Eve from learning and further evolving? How is God good by ordering permanent ignorance for humanity?

I will not belabour the point but why do you who believe, considered God to be good and worthy of trust but not Satan. The Bible made me question this starting in grade 3. Nobody has ever explained this to me.

Note: History shows that the Cathars (having been to Palestine in the Crusades) preached a heresy that Named JHWY as Satan the God of the Old Testament, an evil God. They named Jesus as the Good god who came to drive Satan-JHWY back into Hell. I did not say that. It is the rational Bible inspired faith in which Cathars/Albigensians/Bogomils believed. For taking the Bible so literally, they were killed by Simon de Montfort’s Papal Crusade.

How do Christians deal with the Biblical charges of an evil God?

Amhairghine (I happen to be an admirer of Jesus the man.)

Hi Amhairghine, good question! It is because of the erroneous conflation of the one aspect of the ONE God, ie. creation, as being one and the same as the ONE God, while the complementary opposite aspect of the same ONE God. ie. destruction, is conceived as not God.

That the absolute God is ONE and undivided is exemplified in Isaiah 45:7,.." I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. ."

God is non-dual so all conceived complementary opposite concepts such as good and evil, etc., are merely subjective relative judgments of the mortal mind. That the mortal mind makes this error of subjective judgment based on a self-referenced dualistic perspective of reality is the error of metaphorically
"eating (pablum) of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil."

So the dualistic attributes of creation and destruction taking place in the reality of the ONE God are ceaselessly at play in the ordering of harmony of the cosmic whole. It is the same principle as the ying and yang duality of Taoism that maintains the ever transcendent non-dual nature of the eternal Tao, or the Brahma creator and Shiva destroyer deities of the transcendent non-dual Brahman absolute God. Paradoxically, the harmonious whole is only eternally so due to the ceaseless 'balancing' of complementary opposite differentiated forces of the cosmic oneness, as exemplified in Ecclesiastes 3:8 "There is a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace."

 

[Amhairghine]

Without a doubt, those professed Christians of old and today who claim to follow Christ but disown him by their works bring reproach on the God they claim to serve.
However, God is righteous and true, loyal and faithful, perfect in all His ways. (Deuteronomy 32:4)

Thanks for responding. I was hoping that you would explain how God is righteous? How is God loyal? How is god faithful? How is God perfect when he encourages his human creations to kill each other? How is God perfect when he condemns people for incorrect belief but forgives all of their dreadfully evil deeds including murder. Are the Ten commandments really the First Commandment and the 9 penalty free suggestions?

Fundamentalists tell me that Hitler may have been saved after killing 6 million Jews and 14 million non-Jews if he accepted Jesus just as he pulled the trigger on his suicide gun. Is that Protestant dogma.

I hope you do not take this as an attack but as a serious question by me about Christian faith that seems paradoxical to me. I admit I was raised in a secular family of a secular country (Scotland). I never paid attention until I started reading the Bible stories borrowed from our now Christian minority. Christians were uncommon in college, rare in single digits in Biochemistry Grad School and I knew three in Medical School at U. of Edinburgh, Most Christians were remote rural people in scattered Highland villages. Churches have been closing all over Scotland. Some are now ritzy appartments, banks, libraries, museums, homes of rich tycoons, divided into chic speciality shops, and one Starbucks on Union Street in Aberdeen. Christianity is vanishing all over Europe. What do you think explains the continued growth in America to the endangered religion species of Scotland.?

Why do you think there is such a continental difference? I am open to theories to understand it. I fight firmly for Christian rigts and equality before the law. I am an admirer of Jesus as his life is presented in the Gospels whether he was real or fictional. Jesus was a cool bloke. I would trust him as a friend.

Amhairghine

 

[freethinker44]

What lie was told to Eve by the serpent?

What makes you think that Satan and the serpent are one and the same.

Verses please.

Yes, the serpent didn't lie, it told eve the truth about the forbiden fruit that god held back and eve was tempted by that. And the serpent was punished by having to crawl around on its belly, at no time does this say the serpent was satan in disguise, it's actually pretty clear that the only difference between the serpent and the other animals is that the serpent is more clever.

 

[freethinker44]

Without a doubt, those professed Christians of old and today who claim to follow Christ but disown him by their works bring reproach on the God they claim to serve.
However, God is righteous and true, loyal and faithful, perfect in all His ways. (Deuteronomy 32:4)

deuteronomy 13 (aka. death to those who oppose!)13:12 If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, 13:13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; [SIZE=-1] [/SIZE]
13:14 Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 13:15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.



Facepalm!! Biblical style!

 

[Amhairghine]

What lie was told to Eve by the serpent?

Verses please.

Fall of Man 1Now (A)the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"

2The woman said to the serpent, "(B)From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;

3but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'"

Why would God put such a tree in the garden if he did not want the evolving humans to eat the fruit? I can only mean God was temptation them. Why would he do that? I would not have an aquarium with beautiful fish and place a highly toxic plant in the centre of the aquarium. It seems irrational. Alternatively, it was what Yanks call a "Sting Operation."

4(C)The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!

5"For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and (D)you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

What is wrong with knowing the difference of good and evil? If before eating the fruit, Eve did not know the difference of good and evil. Thus, how can she be punished for not knowing it was wrong? Satan was not lying. Adam and Eve did not die. They lived a usual life span of 35 to 40 years in 4000 BCE. The only conclusion seems that God was jealous of humans becoming too informed. and able to think and reason or apply scepticism.

What makes you think that Satan and the serpent are one and the same.

I do not know. I suspect that Satan was not a Jews dark god. I think he entered Judaic Mythology following the Babylonian captivity and the Persian occupation of Palestine. Satan was the Ahriman or Angra Mainyu the Evil God of Zoroastrianism. I think much of Angra Mainyu was a major component in the invention of Satan. There is the other Serpent God of Set. Could that be the Serpent in the Garden? Or Is Satan really a mix of Set and Aingra Mainyu. Satan did not exist in early Torah writings (I was told) and appears well defined after the Persian Empire occupied Palestine.


Satan did not lie. He told Eve she would eat the fruit she would know good and evil. She did and did know good and evil and she did not die. God actually lied. He said that eating the fruit would make men as Gods. Clearly God was wrong. He said the humans would die. However, they likely lived normal lifespan 35 years typical of the Upper Stone Age 9500 BC to 2200 BC (Neolithic).


Humans have been living lives likely to age 35 =/- 20 were the norm for the last 200,000 years. Adam and Eve lost nothing of their genetic operated life spans. Like their ancestors from 3.2 million years ago they suffered osteoarthritis, atherosclerosis, hypertension, brain haemorrhages, brain tumours, Tuberculosis, parasitic diseases etc. Those disease killed human in prime years for 2 thousand millennia before the time of Adam and Eve.


Please accept my apology if I offended your views in any way. That was not my intent and I do not want to debate. I just wanted to describe how I see the issue and get a Christian perspective on my questions. Thanks mate.


Amhairghine

 

[te_lanus]

I do not know. I suspect that Satan was not a Jews dark god. I think he entered Judaic Mythology following the Babylonian captivity and the Persian occupation of Palestine. Satan was the Ahriman or Angra Mainyu the Evil God of Zoroastrianism. I think much of Angra Mainyu was a major component in the invention of Satan. There is the other Serpent God of Set. Could that be the Serpent in the Garden? Or Is Satan really a mix of Set and Aingra Mainyu. Satan did not exist in early Torah writings (I was told) and appears well defined after the Persian Empire occupied Palestine.

Methinks, and methinks me is maybe wrong, Caladan Might know better, But in ancient Canaan there was one of the gods who almost fulfilled the roll of the "original" Lucifer/Satan(Like in Job), their names was Yahm (God of chaos) and Mot (God of of sterility, death, the underworld, drought, blight, and decay) (also known as Mawet/ Mavet in Hebrew) and they ware the children of El.

 

[McBell]

Please accept my apology if I offended your views in any way. That was not my intent and I do not want to debate. I just wanted to describe how I see the issue and get a Christian perspective on my questions. Thanks mate.

You haven't offended me at all.
But then, I am not a Christian.
Though I am most interested in what lies rusra02 thinks the serpent told and why he thinks that the serpent and The Satan are one and the same.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

This is an excellent topic, and even though the OP didn't want it to be a debate, I think it would be better there. I don't want to see it shut down.

 

[rusra02]

What lie was told to Eve by the serpent?

What makes you think that Satan and the serpent are one and the same.

Verses please.

Genesis 3:4 - "You positively will not die."

Revelation 12:9 - "So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth."

John 8:44 - 'You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie]."

 

[McBell]

Genesis 3:4 - "You positively will not die."

And she didn't.

She lived and was able to get Adam to eat from it as well.

In fact, she lived for QUITE A LONG ARSE while after eating that fruit that wouldst surely make her die.


So the fact of the matter is that the serpent did not lie to Eve.

 

[freethinker44]

Genesis 3:4 - "You positively will not die."

Revelation 12:9 - "So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth."

John 8:44 - 'You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie]."

I know a christian would read the bible as if it were all written at the same time by the same person, but then it would be taken out of a historical context, because it wasn't, when revelation nd john was written it was thought that the serpent and satan were the same thing. But they clearly were not. why, if satan was the serpent, did he say in job that he was walking the earth when in job his arms and legs were taken away from him. Did he shrug off gods absolute power and grow them back? Is he really stronger than god? Or does it make more sense to think that the serpent and satan were two different beings and the men who wrote the new testament were merely confused, because the snake still carries its burden while satan does not. Or maybe god just punished the serpent for letting satan possess it. But probably not.

Of course no god fearing christian would be able to accept that the all the books in the bible are written by different men with different agendas, so I let the rationalizing begin.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

“Christianity is vanishing all over Europe. What do you think explains the continued growth in America to the endangered religion species of Scotland.?”

This something very few Europeans have understood. Perhaps only DeTocqueville really “got it.”

This IS a religious country. We were populated by people who took their religious seriously. They crossed oceans and lived in a wilderness because they took religion seriously. Europeans haven’t done so since about 1800.

But in America religion comes with mother’s milk for a large minority. In some parts of the country a large MAJORITY. And those that believe do so fully and passionately. And they often have a political agenda that springs from that religious belief. It isn’t logical and it makes no apology for that. It isn’t supposed to be. It is “faith” you either have it or you don’t. Millions have it and it shapes their lives.

 

[S-word]

As a sceptic, I often wonder why God is called good, but Satan is called Evil.

Having read the Bible (KJV) cover to cover more than once, and some passages a 100 times, something strikes me as odd.

If Satan is evil, why was his only evil action tormenting Job with God's approval. What did Satan do that was bad?

If God is the Good counterpart of Satan, why do all Old Testament stories have God as the killer?

1. Noah's Flood killing millions of people, and a million million non-human animals because some adult humans sinned, does not sound like a good Cosmic Creator.

2. Egyptian Plagues were notable for the killing of thousands or hundreds of thousands of Egyptians because Pharaoh refused each of Moses' requests to let the Jews emigrate. God hardened Pharaoh’s heart to push him into denial of Jewish release so he could send another devastating plague. Is that good?

3. God ordered Israelite Desert Raiders to take settled cities and kill men, women, children, and babies. City dwellers (carpenters, blacksmiths, farmers, artisans, clothiers, market owners, and children) would be no match for the heavily armoured battle hardened Israelite storm troopers who murdered everyone in the city...but allowed by God to take virgin girls as sex slaves. Is that good? Why in Hosea 13:16 does the author talk about ripping open the bellies of pregnant women and why do they speak of smashing babies' head against the stone. To me this is unequivocally evil.

4. In the Garden of Eden, it was the serpent (Satan?) who urged Eve and Adam to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge (i.e. seek to learn knowledge.) He was urging them to inquire, study, and learn, He was urging them to pull themselves out of ignorance to learn about the world around them. Why did God forbid Adam and Eve from learning and further evolving? How is God good by ordering permanent ignorance for humanity?

I will not belabour the point but why do you who believe, considered God to be good and worthy of trust but not Satan. The Bible made me question this starting in grade 3. Nobody has ever explained this to me.

Note: History shows that the Cathars (having been to Palestine in the Crusades) preached a heresy that Named JHWY as Satan the God of the Old Testament, an evil God. They named Jesus as the Good god who came to drive Satan-JHWY back into Hell. I did not say that. It is the rational Bible inspired faith in which Cathars/Albigensians/Bogomils believed. For taking the Bible so literally, they were killed by Simon de Montfort’s Papal Crusade.

How do Christians deal with the Biblical charges of an evil God?

Amhairghine (I happen to be an admirer of Jesus the man.)

Satan, the first born Son of the Most High in the creation, who stood before the face of God constantly accusing his brothers, had to be taught a lesson and witness his own creation, and he was cast out of the heavenly dimension which lays in our future, into his dead past. Satan in his ascent back to heaven is the accuser and condemner of the body of mankind in whose inner most sanctuary, the spiritual first born Son of God ascended/is ascending in evolution.

But Satan in his descent to the position from which he was cast down, where he would receive again the glory he once had with his Father before this world began, is my God.

For I have seen who he has become, He who revealed himself through his obedient servant who did, nor spoke anything other than that which he was commanded, He, who revealed himself through his earthly image who had to be lifted up in the same manner as Moses lifted up the image of the serpent while wandering through the wilderness, in order that all those who are dying because of the soul destroying, brother accusing venom that courses through their veins, might be saved by turning their eye to the image of the serpent who has been lifted up.

Gods first born Son, who, through the mouth of his earthly image, his obedient servant who spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say, cried out, "Father! Give me glory in your presence now; the same glory I had with you before this world was made." See John 17: 5. The Lord Jehovah in ascent, tried to kill Moses on his return to Egypt to lead the Israelites out, in obedience to the unseen deity of our future, who Satan will become. Jehovah:... "I Am Who I Will Be," or "I Am Who I Am."

So get behind me you charlatan priests and you shams
For I am true to my God, to MY God "Who I Am."

 

[rusra02]

Thanks for responding. I was hoping that you would explain how God is righteous? How is God loyal? How is god faithful? How is God perfect when he encourages his human creations to kill each other? How is God perfect when he condemns people for incorrect belief but forgives all of their dreadfully evil deeds including murder. Are the Ten commandments really the First Commandment and the 9 penalty free suggestions?

Fundamentalists tell me that Hitler may have been saved after killing 6 million Jews and 14 million non-Jews if he accepted Jesus just as he pulled the trigger on his suicide gun. Is that Protestant dogma.

Amhairghine

How is God perfect when he encourages his human creations to kill each other?
Please be more specific. God encourages his people to love their enemies.

How is God loyal and righteous? Jehovah demonstrates loyalty to his servants by remaining true to his standards. Jehovah does not vacillate in his view of what is right and what is wrong. Throughout the millenniums, his view of such things as spiritism, idolatry, and murder has remained unchanged
Jehovah also shows loyalty by remaining faithful to his word of promise. When he foretells something, it comes to pass. Jehovah thus stated: “My word that goes forth from my mouth . . . will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it.” (Isaiah 55:11) By remaining faithful to his word, Jehovah shows loyalty to his people. He does not keep them anxiously awaiting something that he does not intend to bring about. Jehovah’s servant Joshua was able to say: “Not a promise failed out of all the good promise that Jehovah had made to the house of Israel; it all came true.” (Joshua 21:45)

There are both true and false Christians and religions that profess to be Christian may not be Christian at all. You are correct in saying religion is on the decline in many places. Many people find hypocrisy and political meddling in their religion, lack of respect for the Bible, and failure to teach and practice high moral standards. Many have become disgusted with this state of affairs in religions today and don't see the relevance of religion to their life.

 

[rusra02]

And she didn't.

She lived and was able to get Adam to eat from it as well.

In fact, she lived for QUITE A LONG ARSE while after eating that fruit that wouldst surely make her die.


So the fact of the matter is that the serpent did not lie to Eve.

Maybe you could introduce me to Eve if she didn't die. God condemned her and Adam to death that very day. The prospect of everlasting life was lost to them. They were 'dead men walking'. From that day forward, their bodies began to deteriorate until at last they returned to the dust, as God said they would. The fruit of that tree was not poisonous. It represented God's right to decide what was good and bad. If they had obeyed God, Adam and his wife would have lived until this day.

 

[rusra02]

I know a christian would read the bible as if it were all written at the same time by the same person, but then it would be taken out of a historical context, because it wasn't, when revelation nd john was written it was thought that the serpent and satan were the same thing. But they clearly were not. why, if satan was the serpent, did he say in job that he was walking the earth when in job his arms and legs were taken away from him. Did he shrug off gods absolute power and grow them back? Is he really stronger than god? Or does it make more sense to think that the serpent and satan were two different beings and the men who wrote the new testament were merely confused, because the snake still carries its burden while satan does not. Or maybe god just punished the serpent for letting satan possess it. But probably not.

Of course no god fearing christian would be able to accept that the all the books in the bible are written by different men with different agendas, so I let the rationalizing begin.

The Bible is inspired by God and therefore what it contains is not the error prone thoughts of men. (2 Timothy 3:16,17) Jesus accepted the scriptures as a product of God's holy spirit, not the work of men.

 

[McBell]

Maybe you could introduce me to Eve if she didn't die. God condemned her and Adam to death that very day. The prospect of everlasting life was lost to them. They were 'dead men walking'. From that day forward, their bodies began to deteriorate until at last they returned to the dust, as God said they would. The fruit of that tree was not poisonous. It represented God's right to decide what was good and bad. If they had obeyed God, Adam and his wife would have lived until this day.

stop moving the goal posts.