-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Question to atheists and agnotics: why are you not a deist?
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
I don't see any reason to believe in a deity whose only role is to get the universe going.
There is no reason to believe in a supreme being.
Since I see no rational reason to believe in the supernatural, in general, I cannot possibly be a deist, either.
ciao
- viole
I don't know that the universe needs a Creator.
I suspect most people don't like this lack of knowledge. There has to be a logical cause for everything going back to a first cause, or the cause without a cause I suppose.
To me it is possible the universe has always existed. No one likes the idea of an infinite universe. It doesn't fit our need for a logical beginning of things. Since we can't prove a first cause, it is as likely as anything else.
To be a deist takes a stance on something we can't actually know with any certainty.
Last edited:
I don't see any reason to assume a deity is necessary for the universe to exist.
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
Why would I be?
Moonjuice
In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey
Simple question. I have not been convinced a god created the universe, that's why I'm not a deist.
As a side note, it is also meaningless to me if the God that does exist does not interact with us in any way. In that case, that gods existence doesn't matter to me any more than the existence of a bug on a planet a trillion light years away. It has no impact on my life.
There is nothing to support such a belief.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
This question was a bit confusing (splitting hairs) because if god is not a deity but an abstract force or any cultural and personal attribution to an unknown start of the universe, I'm not sure how atheists and agnostics can really say we don't believe it. If you mean deity, being, like a ghost forming the universe, deity, theist, polytheist, etc no. There isn't a reason to.
At the core of it all, though, not a lot of us believe there need to be a source of the universe as a religious concept or object of reverence.
Well, I believe anything is possible, but if something is idle speculation, then that's what it is. What's the point in believing in something just to have something to believe in?
AlexanderG
Active Member
For me, deism requires some kind of non-material mind. There's no evidence of such a thing, or even evidence that such a thing is possible. Since I try to believe a claim only after enough evidence warrants its belief, I don't believe in any deistic god or deistic model.
A lot of theistic arguments target the mind/mindless distinction. But in the end, it seems just as likely that a mindless reality happens to have the constants and properties that it does, as compared to the likelihood that a being able to create universes would happen to desire a universe with these particular constants and properties.
Justanatheist
Well-Known Member
To be honest I find the idea of a god that created the universe then buggered off and left us to it very appealing. Trouble is that I cannot make myself believe, unless the evidence is there to support it. I so want the Loch Ness monster to exist, read every book on it, watched every documentary but sadly the evidence shows it is just a great story and not real.
I can't make extra assumptions about the nature of reality until I have evidence that's convincing enough for me to accept the premise. Until that happens, I feel that defaulting to no position at all is the most intellectually honest position for me to hold.
I used to be a deist for a time, but meh... It just felt like something extra to to haul around for me. In dropping off god concepts (as actual existing entities) altogether, life is just a little less complicated and as a consequence, a little less stressful.
I used to be a deist for a time, but meh... It just felt like something extra to to haul around for me. In dropping off god concepts (as actual existing entities) altogether, life is just a little less complicated and as a consequence, a little less stressful.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
The Deist position is as valid as any other belief.
However it is as equally unprovable as any other belief about a god or prime mover.
What is perhaps more to the point, is why do people believe in a God who never has been proved to act or interact with the world or its inhabitants.
At the scale of the universe, this solar system is less significant than a mote of dust.
Perhaps if there is a god he simply has not got around to being aware of us yet.
However it is as equally unprovable as any other belief about a god or prime mover.
What is perhaps more to the point, is why do people believe in a God who never has been proved to act or interact with the world or its inhabitants.
At the scale of the universe, this solar system is less significant than a mote of dust.
Perhaps if there is a god he simply has not got around to being aware of us yet.
Moonjuice
In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey
Why is that appealing?
Consider this scenario:
There is a race of intelligent beings in the multiverse that has learned the technology of making new universes. In fact, this is something that is taught in the art classes for this race of beings. Our universe is one of these four dimensional works of art. All of our space and time, with all matter and energy is just a four dimensional sculpture made in one of these art classes and forgotten about.
Is this possible? Sure.
Do I believe it? No.
Why not? There is no evidence for this being the case.
But it is more believable to me than a singular deity.
There is a race of intelligent beings in the multiverse that has learned the technology of making new universes. In fact, this is something that is taught in the art classes for this race of beings. Our universe is one of these four dimensional works of art. All of our space and time, with all matter and energy is just a four dimensional sculpture made in one of these art classes and forgotten about.
Is this possible? Sure.
Do I believe it? No.
Why not? There is no evidence for this being the case.
But it is more believable to me than a singular deity.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
The definition of God gives way too much power and control to a being over the universe. An infinite being doesn't appear to be possible nor reasonable to assume. If God were real then anything you can imagine would also exist.
To invoke God is to define a being without limits. A being without limits can do absolutely anything. Life in the universe is along for the ride in a mostly uninhabitable universe. Why would a God wastefully create a vast expanse and make life appear to be an accidental byproduct of physical forces?
The universe is indiscriminate. Any intelligence that produces this reality clearly does so recklessly, and haphazardly. A junkyard God with natural limitations to their power, and presence isn't even a God.
How does a God intervene and operate a universe? It's fantasy to think that by merely thinking upon the universe then the universe would obey any being's thoughts. Or does God have his/her hands on controls that produce universes? Magic hands is not an explanation of reality.
However I do think intelligence is fundamental to reality. I think it's inherent to existence. I don't think intelligence is dominant though. Nor is intelligence always a product of mind. That's my opinion. I think meaning and purpose play a role in existence.
To invoke God is to define a being without limits. A being without limits can do absolutely anything. Life in the universe is along for the ride in a mostly uninhabitable universe. Why would a God wastefully create a vast expanse and make life appear to be an accidental byproduct of physical forces?
The universe is indiscriminate. Any intelligence that produces this reality clearly does so recklessly, and haphazardly. A junkyard God with natural limitations to their power, and presence isn't even a God.
How does a God intervene and operate a universe? It's fantasy to think that by merely thinking upon the universe then the universe would obey any being's thoughts. Or does God have his/her hands on controls that produce universes? Magic hands is not an explanation of reality.
However I do think intelligence is fundamental to reality. I think it's inherent to existence. I don't think intelligence is dominant though. Nor is intelligence always a product of mind. That's my opinion. I think meaning and purpose play a role in existence.
Justanatheist
Well-Known Member
Because of the incredible arrogance of many religions, the idea that all those trillions of stars all the millions of galaxies exist just for us. Ever read Rendezvous with Rama it's one of my favourite books.
epronovost
Well-Known Member
It's an extra layer of assumptions with its own problems and frankly it doesn't add or change anything to reality. I might as well believe in Russel's Teapot at that point since both have the same impact and the same level of evidence.