Questioning the divine origin of the Covenant...

[Forever_Catholic]

In my view, acknowledging that the God of Abraham was a mortal takes everything down, as all the prophets, including Jesus, acknowledge the divine nature of Abraham’s Lord and base their prophecies on such premise. While nothing prevents one for cherry picking what works for him, I think it is not possible to maintain coherence of the whole if you take this element out of it. In fact, the Covenant might be the only element in the entire Bible that cannot be removed because it is so fundamental to everything else. Think about it and let me know.

I see the logic of what you’re saying, as it suits your purpose. If you could prove that the biblical God of Abraham was actually just a mortal man, then the integrity of the whole Bible would be compromised. All sorts of new arguments against scripture, faith, and God’s existence could be supported with it.

But the reality is that neither this nor any of God’s word can be disproven. People have been trying throughout history, and have only fooled themselves at best. Condemned themselves at worst. Why don’t you try researching for the purpose of arguing for rather than against? There’s infinitely more to work with, and I can recommend it first-hand as endlessly fascinating. I really do hope you’ll think about it, at least in time.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

FoereverCatholic;

Gnosticism can’t be reconciled with Catholicism. You think I should wise up, and I think you should. That’s how it would go, right?

Hmm - thats how they TAUGHT you to think - but the truth there is that they lied - first - there is no such thing as "gnosticism" - that label was invented by church as they lumped all manner of legitimate spiritual practice together then outlawed it all as "evil" under the umbrella label "gnostic heretic" - thus they quite literally INVENTED AN ENEMY and they needed to do this of course, to justify their MILITARY campaigns of ROMES domination - thus ensuring that ORIGINAL spiritual and Divine truth be covered up, eradicated,destroyed, replaced the world over with BOGUS catholic doctrine that is a TWISTING OF that ORIGINAL truth and that they then ENFORCED upon all as the ONLY permitted truth...

To actually BE a gnostic absolutely REQUIRES us to seek our own LIVING truth - and so perhaps you can see..?...There could NEVER be a "gnostic religion" - IMPOSSIBLE - organised indoctrinated - led by another - is the very opposite of the gnostic pursuit which is to come to ONES OWN PERSONAL TRUTH BY DIRECT EXPERIENCE - do you see then..?...To have a religion is to ALWAYS FOLLOW A MAN and THEIR BELIEFS - in that attempt all we get is MANS TRUTH - and look how confusing THAT turned out to be with the state of the world today DIRECTLY caused by all these RELIGIOUS LIES !!

You trust CHRIST..?...I hope so, for He is your "salvation" - but not at all in the way the church describes it...They dont nowadays even understand Him much at all - but back at the beginning they DID understand Him fully - and soon realised that HIS teaching would DESTROY their religion entirely....The had a choice - embrace His truth or silence it - they chose as we know and WE are left dominated fully by their lies...Christ ACTUALLY - quite openly - DESPISED INSTITUTIONALISED RELIGION !!

Its so so obvious - look at the things He said and DID - or ask yourself the crucial question -WHY DID THEY MURDER HIM..??......

Wrong god He said - your god is not MY Father - your god is an Angel deceiving you He said....come to HATE your parents (truths) - quit the temple entirely He said - NO MORE BABBLING LIKE A PAGAN - no more rituals,dogmas, never ending prayers of begging and supplication - no more SACRIFICES He said - give it ALL up it leads you astray.....Didnt He give you just ONE SINGLE PRAYER - Our Father - and told you SPECIFICALLY do away with all else and JUST this one single prayer was all you would ever need..?....YES HE DID !!

Didnt He warn us EVERYTHING that would be done in HIS name (but not necasarily by His followers)..??.. Damn these Pharisees He said - spiritual teachers who neither HAVE truth nor would share freely He warned....Didnt He tell you all plainly - if you seek my Father - then avoid the temple and public religion ENTIRELY - and when you seek Him, go ALONE into a PRIVATE place - close off the world out there and seek forever INWARDS - the Divine Presence resides THERE deep within - the KINGDOM is WITHIN you...yes..??...DO YOU SEE>>??

And then He warned us - follow me - but be prepared - the world is going to hate and despise you, try its best to destroy your truth - but hold to this LIVING truth found within - seek it ALWAYS and allow THAT to be the only guide - DIRECT COMMUNION mortal and Divine - and THIS INNER LEGITIMATE COMMUNION is the thing that truly saves us..In a very clear and direct teacching He said all that and then told us that WE would BECOME HIM and realise OUR OWN INHERANT DIVINE NATURE - and this, despite any "mortal station" in life - no matter who you are or what life you led, this legitimate Divine Presence was STILL within you - bring it forth always and save your SELF...There is no such thing as a "lost hopeless sinner" - despite what they tell you - surely you see, they told those lies to DOMINATE and control you fully - to such a point even that you dare not question for fear of "eternal punishment"...And so as advised WISE UP - seek out the things your church forbids you and THINK FOR YOURSELF - just as Christ advised - for believe it or not - Christ IS a gnostic - told us always seek this inner living Divine Guide and to trust no other before it - the famous Holy Ghost that HE gave freely - and the religion WITH HOLDS from you and tells you you are "unworthy" to receive....But,come to church they say, let us dominate you fully and MAYBE if you "become worthy" we will help...In the meantime of course, you MUST rely on churcth alone for spiritual guidance, as only THEY have this communion they say - and all that is ENTIRELY COMPLETELY OPPOSITE tot he direct teaching of my Mate....

They HAVE tricked you catholics fully - and the world as a whole of course.....Id be glad to show you all the twists and turns they forced upon us - but this thread is not the place....

But “creation stories” in the plural are not the singular creation story of the Bible, which was written down by Moses in the same book as the Abraham story.

Thats true - but by the same token - that bible version is merely a RETELLING of the much much earlier Sumer narrative...Provable beyond any reasonable doubt - we know the Jewish truth is NOT the start at all...And as said, we know for sure NOBODY ALTERED THE ORIGINAL, as it is CLAY TABLET, so we know for sure this is unadulterated SOURCE of the whole saga..Original TRUTH that all the later versions come from...Of course - this means unavoidably - the bible version is "less than truth" - at best it is a CONFUSION of original truth - and at worse it could be outright deception to mislead us and give a "false god" domination over all...( the second option is obviously true once we add in the Christ FULL narrative as He said it explaining the TRUE Divine and this SEPERATE realm)..You simply CAN NOT TRUST the religion alone - they have definate agenda of MORTAL power and status and inideed religion itself is a tool SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to CONTROL YOU !!

If you could prove that the biblical God of Abraham was actually just a mortal man, then the integrity of the whole Bible would be compromised.

Ah my friend - dont you get it yet..?...The integrity of the bible - is already DESTROYED simply by the FACT that it is NOT ORIGINAL TRUTH and we know that for sure BECAUSE of that HARD EVIDENCE clay tablets...EVERYTHING in the Jewish lore is to be found in SUMER first - to claim then that God spoke for the FIRST time EVER to Hebrews first and that THEY have original truth, is complete rubbish - because same INFORMATION was already given THOUSANDS OF YEARS BEFORE to the SUMERIANS !! If you want truth of this gods interaction with man, they it ALL starts there and there alone...

BlamBore; Ah my friend - no response..??....Thats disappointing - Id thought youd have lots to respond with.....Any thoughts..??...Or have I given you something new to think on ?

 

[blambore]

Hi @PeteC-UK, rest assured that I am not ignoring your post. However, I do have a full time job where I do want to invest the bulk of my energies - out of respect for the organization and my co-workers. In addition, if you throw some links at me, I will do my best to at least have a look at them...

While not an expert, I do have a reasonable understanding of the history of Sumer and Mesopotamia (you might even learn a few things in The Covenant). The fact that this society innovated in many areas doesn’t necessarily imply the visit of angels. I think this evolution it is just the result of necessity. In two thousand years from now, will people think of Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg or Steve Jobs as angels? I don’t think so (perhaps Jobs?), yet they will see an important discontinuity in our evolution. In fact, I would dare suggesting a forward leap that is equally significant as the advent of writing or large structures in Sumer. Don't you think?

You can therefore believe in their influence or not, I don’t think it changes much to our current discussion. My focus is on The Covenant, because, as @Forever_Catholic states:

“If you could prove that the biblical God of Abraham was actually just a mortal man, then the integrity of the whole Bible would be compromised.”​

This will obviously sound presumptuous to some, but I do believe this can now be shown in a satisfactory way. This said, I am not naive and I realize full well that I can never get someone to seriously consider this perspective, unless he/she is open to some basic introspection (much like is required in order to consider any new perspective that rivals status quo).

My sole objective is therefore to contribute to additional some knowledge and reflections to the generations that follow, so they have more data to evaluate the pertinence of engaging (or not) in the intellectual leap of faith that is required to accept any Scriptures as literal Words of God; and instead bring them to acknowledge these scriptures for what I believe they are: material inspired by the wisdom of man, but that has no more authoritative value than any other religious, atheistic or philosophical texts (which in many cases can be found more enlightening).

BTW I'm curious, has anyone downloaded my book yet? Given it's free and easily accessible, why not?

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Blambore;

The fact that this society innovated in many areas doesn’t necessarily imply the visit of angels. I think this evolution it is just the result of necessity.

Hmm...Not just "many areas" - EVERY AREA - there was no ESTABLISHED society at all before this -nomads, hunter gatherers - and it had been like that UNCHANGED for THOUSANDS of years - the "necessity to evolve" was ALWAYS THERE - those "natural pressures" that we THINK causes evolution were likewise ALWAYS there - and yet - NO CHANGE OCCURRED - no NATURAL change occurred at all...

And then - literally out of nowhere - and it terms of history this happened "over night" so to speak, VERY short time frame compared to those THOUSANDS of years of STAGNATION - and both a PHYSICAL evolution occurred, and a FULL ON SOCIETY sprang up like, immediately - able to produce actual achievements that even we CANNOT YET MATCH.....Whatever they were - they surpassed OUR intelligence......And really all that is provable beyond any academic doubt - and the only explanation for any of this is THEIIR OWN RECORDS - so WHY academia insists on dismissing it as myth or allegory, is a complete mystery - entirely self defeating to search for a legitimate truth but then deny the parts you fail to explain...

In two thousand years from now, will people think of Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg or Steve Jobs as angels?

lol...why should they - just because they are clever men does not make them "other worldly visitors" lol - youre just clutching at straws there - and that IS the whole point - right at the START of every source of this knowledge - every culture that shares the narrative - and there are many - and they ALL agree - these Others are NOT OF THE EARTH......Until academia begins to acknowledge and accept the peoples own recorded truth, then academia will obviously fail to understand those people or our history at all - you are "self sabotaging" your own efforts here......As said elsewhere - we already know for sure definately beyond any doubt - we are not dealing with HUMANS who start human society - ALL SOURCES OF WISDOM TELL US THE SAME...All we really need do now then as said before - work out WHO and WHAT these OTHERS are - physical off world "people" - or spiritual EXTRA DIMENSIONAL. ENTITIES...

Ask yourselves the HARD questions....WHERE did all that stupendous GIGANTIC BUILDING work ORIGINATE..??...HOW did they know the WORKINGS OF THE UNIVERSE centuries before modern man invented a telescope even..???...HOW did they describe DNA and the processes of LIFE again centuries before even basic modern medicine began..???...The list of unanswered questions could go on and on of course - but for now Id be interested to hear YOUR take on just these few questions here...How do YOU think they achieved it..??>>

Do you HONESTLY believe mankind achieved it alone..?...You think that ancient men with basic tools could do THAT..?...After all - that is what academia tell us right..?...BASIC PRIMITIVE people,SOMEHOW did ALL THAT...?...Are they taking the p&ss out of us all with their ludicrous explanations..?..Are they misleading and deceiving us on purpose ? (partly yes)...Or MOST PROBALBLY - HAVE WE LOST A HUGE CHUNK OF HISTIORY PRE FLOOD - and academia writes off anything that it cant explain before this known event as "myth and fairytale" thus ignoring legitimate sources of knowledge in their own pride and arrogance...If we want TRUTH - I do above all else - then we MUST take these people at their word as THEY directly explain the LIVING EXPERIENCES that they ACTUALLY HAD...

 

[Forever_Catholic]

FoereverCatholic; Hmm - thats how they TAUGHT you to think - but the truth there is that they lied - first - there is no such thing as "gnosticism" - that label was invented by church as they lumped all manner of legitimate spiritual practice together then outlawed it all as "evil" under the umbrella label "gnostic heretic" - thus they quite literally INVENTED AN ENEMY and they needed to do this of course, to justify their MILITARY campaigns of ROMES domination - thus ensuring that ORIGINAL spiritual and Divine truth be covered up, eradicated,destroyed, replaced the world over with BOGUS catholic doctrine that is a TWISTING OF that ORIGINAL truth and that they then ENFORCED upon all as the ONLY permitted truth...

To actually BE a gnostic absolutely REQUIRES us to seek our own LIVING truth - and so perhaps you can see..?...There could NEVER be a "gnostic religion" - IMPOSSIBLE - organised indoctrinated - led by another - is the very opposite of the gnostic pursuit which is to come to ONES OWN PERSONAL TRUTH BY DIRECT EXPERIENCE - do you see then..?...To have a religion is to ALWAYS FOLLOW A MAN and THEIR BELIEFS - in that attempt all we get is MANS TRUTH - and look how confusing THAT turned out to be with the state of the world today DIRECTLY caused by all these RELIGIOUS LIES !!

You trust CHRIST..?...I hope so, for He is your "salvation" - but not at all in the way the church describes it...They dont nowadays even understand Him much at all - but back at the beginning they DID understand Him fully - and soon realised that HIS teaching would DESTROY their religion entirely....The had a choice - embrace His truth or silence it - they chose as we know and WE are left dominated fully by their lies...Christ ACTUALLY - quite openly - DESPISED INSTITUTIONALISED RELIGION !!

Its so so obvious - look at the things He said and DID - or ask yourself the crucial question -WHY DID THEY MURDER HIM..??......

Wrong god He said - your god is not MY Father - your god is an Angel deceiving you He said....come to HATE your parents (truths) - quit the temple entirely He said - NO MORE BABBLING LIKE A PAGAN - no more rituals,dogmas, never ending prayers of begging and supplication - no more SACRIFICES He said - give it ALL up it leads you astray.....Didnt He give you just ONE SINGLE PRAYER - Our Father - and told you SPECIFICALLY do away with all else and JUST this one single prayer was all you would ever need..?....YES HE DID !!

Didnt He warn us EVERYTHING that would be done in HIS name (but not necasarily by His followers)..??.. Damn these Pharisees He said - spiritual teachers who neither HAVE truth nor would share freely He warned....Didnt He tell you all plainly - if you seek my Father - then avoid the temple and public religion ENTIRELY - and when you seek Him, go ALONE into a PRIVATE place - close off the world out there and seek forever INWARDS - the Divine Presence resides THERE deep within - the KINGDOM is WITHIN you...yes..??...DO YOU SEE>>??

And then He warned us - follow me - but be prepared - the world is going to hate and despise you, try its best to destroy your truth - but hold to this LIVING truth found within - seek it ALWAYS and allow THAT to be the only guide - DIRECT COMMUNION mortal and Divine - and THIS INNER LEGITIMATE COMMUNION is the thing that truly saves us..In a very clear and direct teacching He said all that and then told us that WE would BECOME HIM and realise OUR OWN INHERANT DIVINE NATURE - and this, despite any "mortal station" in life - no matter who you are or what life you led, this legitimate Divine Presence was STILL within you - bring it forth always and save your SELF...There is no such thing as a "lost hopeless sinner" - despite what they tell you - surely you see, they told those lies to DOMINATE and control you fully - to such a point even that you dare not question for fear of "eternal punishment"...And so as advised WISE UP - seek out the things your church forbids you and THINK FOR YOURSELF - just as Christ advised - for believe it or not - Christ IS a gnostic - told us always seek this inner living Divine Guide and to trust no other before it - the famous Holy Ghost that HE gave freely - and the religion WITH HOLDS from you and tells you you are "unworthy" to receive....But,come to church they say, let us dominate you fully and MAYBE if you "become worthy" we will help...In the meantime of course, you MUST rely on churcth alone for spiritual guidance, as only THEY have this communion they say - and all that is ENTIRELY COMPLETELY OPPOSITE tot he direct teaching of my Mate....

They HAVE tricked you catholics fully - and the world as a whole of course.....Id be glad to show you all the twists and turns they forced upon us - but this thread is not the place....

Thats true - but by the same token - that bible version is merely a RETELLING of the much much earlier Sumer narrative...Provable beyond any reasonable doubt - we know the Jewish truth is NOT the start at all...And as said, we know for sure NOBODY ALTERED THE ORIGINAL, as it is CLAY TABLET, so we know for sure this is unadulterated SOURCE of the whole saga..Original TRUTH that all the later versions come from...Of course - this means unavoidably - the bible version is "less than truth" - at best it is a CONFUSION of original truth - and at worse it could be outright deception to mislead us and give a "false god" domination over all...( the second option is obviously true once we add in the Christ FULL narrative as He said it explaining the TRUE Divine and this SEPERATE realm)..You simply CAN NOT TRUST the religion alone - they have definate agenda of MORTAL power and status and inideed religion itself is a tool SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to CONTROL YOU !!

Ah my friend - dont you get it yet..?...The integrity of the bible - is already DESTROYED simply by the FACT that it is NOT ORIGINAL TRUTH and we know that for sure BECAUSE of that HARD EVIDENCE clay tablets...EVERYTHING in the Jewish lore is to be found in SUMER first - to claim then that God spoke for the FIRST time EVER to Hebrews first and that THEY have original truth, is complete rubbish - because same INFORMATION was already given THOUSANDS OF YEARS BEFORE to the SUMERIANS !! If you want truth of this gods interaction with man, they it ALL starts there and there alone...

I don’t want to get too far beyond the topic of this thread, but here are a few basic facts, some of which pertain directly to it, and some indirectly:

Jesus confirmed the validity of the Old Testament by teaching and quoting from it (and that includes the books of the Greek Septuagint that Protestants removed from their versions of the Christian Bible). He also validated the Old Testament by fulfilling the messianic prophecies and establishing the New Covenant. Jesus verified the reality of Abraham by specific references to him. In one statement he simultaneously identified himself as God the Son, saying “Before Abraham was, I am.”

The Catholic Church is the one and only church that Christ established, and it is today as he set it up, according to scripture. It is a hierarchical institution of heaven and earth having a universal scope and functioning on earth with Christ’s own authority to teach, forgive sins, and make decisions that are binding on the faithful.

The New Testament, which is fully interconnected with the Old Testament, was written entirely by Catholics, apostles of Christ and two disciples of apostles, Luke and Mark. The clergy of the Church today is part of a direct and unbroken succession of bishops from the apostles onward. There has never been a Catholic ordination (or valid ordination of any kind) other than through a laying on of hands by a Catholic bishop in the Sacrament of Holy Orders, so there is a continuous link with the apostles through which their God-given authority has been passed on.

The truth of the Catholic Church is clearly verifiable, biblically and historically. Despite heresies and arguments throughout the ages, it is now and forever the same church as it was on the Day of Pentecost, and its doctrines have never strayed from what Christ taught.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Forever Catholic; First, let me say - I do this only to give you truth, not to be in opposition..Ive been in your position - not catholic, but raised orthodox bible christian - my dear old mum could quote chapter and verse, and often did - we spent HOURS every night,discussing all this....I wont go into the personal stuff here, but will share it all openly as and when it comes up as is my way - but will say for now I know the bible god very well indeed, form both inside and outside its influence..Id like you (all) to have the same perspective I guess..

Jesus confirmed the validity of the Old Testament by teaching and quoting from it (and that includes the books of the Greek Septuagint that Protestants removed from their versions of the Christian Bible).

Hmm - ok - try to keep an open mind...YES, the BIBLE says that He did that - BUT - as said elsewhere the NEW testamant is made up to suit church agenda - like cut n paste from HUNDREDS of other texts and we know that as a legitimate fully admitted fact...IN those other texts, Christ does NOT say that at all..He totally disavows the religion and its god - , has people turn away from the temple to adopt a private and personal SECRET and SOLITARY, direct communion with the INNER Divine...The religion was a hinderance He said - quit babbling like a pagan - quit bowing down grovelling prayers - cease with the never ending praises to this god - no more rituals - no priest - no middleman at all - just mortal mind shunning it all, turning INWARDS to find the KINGDOM and bring forth this Divine Presence...Some of that is even contained still within the Bible itself - SCHOLARS gave the truth of that book, told to make a credable version from all those other PRE EXISTANT truths..Scholars make MISTAKES and in places we see even in the Bible, Christ will totally DISAVOW that god and replace its previous truth with HIS OWN..

Now, unlike my dear mum I cant give chapter and verse - but off the top of my head - check out bible John 8 - you will see Christ tell the Jews in a first confrontation, that they worship a totally different god to HIS Father..They say basically - they follow the god of Abraham and Moses - and Christ says, YES YOU do indeed, but that god is NOT my Father, you do NOT KNOW HIM...Understand though, they DO KNOW YAHWEH - INTIMATELY, and have done for millenia already - he tells them they - nor anybody else of course - know the TRUE Father of All (this realm was seperate and not even the god here knew the Father)..Christ said it clearly - then continued to tell them that THEIR god is a trickster - father of lies (sound familiar - devil --satan) - who even now He says, is influencing them all to commit MURDER on the Christ..

First recorded confrontation, HE TOTALLY DISAVOWS THEIR GOD IN PUBLIC..And remeber HE ALONE can do MIRACLES that NO priest of Yahweh can match - the people soon flock to Him to hear this new truth and so it begins.

The Catholic Church is the one and only church that Christ established, and it is today as he set it up, according to scripture.

.

Remember - OPEN MIND - yes..?...SCRIPTURE - that was ENFORCED UPON THE WORLD - BY the catholic church - but NOT the ORIGINAL scripture at all..As said above, Christ taught that the religious form of seeking was entirely wrong, a hinderance to the true Divine communion...To follow a man is to get mans truth always, yes..?...And this is NOT Christs way, the first error He said was the wide gate.....Original scripture - and again, odd little bits that survived in the Bible, show Him BLATANTLY teaching people to AVOID temple and religious pharisee teacher..He didnt come to replace all that with a a "new version" - He came to SCRAP it entirely...To destroy this house so that none may rebuild it - His worlds - I can show you if need..?....He said the very PRACTICE ITSELF - the rituals, prayers, sacrifices, dogmas, HEIRACHY - all USELESS...He did NOT start any religion at all - He told us to scrap it entirely - you MUST come to HATE your parents He said....What do you think He means..?...like,physical emotional hate..?..Or come to DESPISE their truths as He BLATANTLY did time and time again IN PUBLIC. He is a GNOSTIC a sit became known - seek ALWAYS an INNER guide - cant be given from any external source - the Kingdom you seek,lays WITHIN you already, seek it THERE...

Scripture - I offer here then - Judas - see there a rather ACCURATE PROPHECY tjhat all the disciples share, of a future and totally corrupt church....They ask Christ for clarity as they are shocked they all have identical visions..Christ is well and truly p^ssed at them - says they fail to understand, and this is the future - things done in HIS name that bring SHAME and calamity to the world..Actually this is the truth of the LAST SUPPER - for it is here that He TELLS Judas He must betray Yeshua so that He can die and rise again...Perhaps, Christ is allowing this to happen NOW - MAKING IT HAPPEN HIMSELF as He practically tells Judas YES you MUST - and the reason that makes Him choose that time, is BECAUSE the others are FAILING to understand - so, die now rise again now - PROVE His truth and show them DIRECTLY with the RESURRECTION - for they are failing to uinderstand, so He chooses now to show them ALL just WHO he truly IS..Indeed,and actually - it is AFTER the resurrection when He gives ALL the glorious details of Creation - EVERYTHING disclosed fully in DIRECT spiritual encounters, Disciples and Ascended Christ...He even tells them, they must STAY WITH HIM for a time - to receive His full truth and the gift of the HOLY GHOST directly...His very Presence - NOW PURE DIVINE ENERGY - literally ALTERED them and ALLOWED the Holy Ghost DIRECT COMMUNION to occur for them..

That shared vision prophecy IS the catholic church..Christ says it is their LEGACY to the world - and says directly it will lead countles thousands AWAY from the Father..Not only does Christ say directly that the priests in the vision ARE the disciples priosthood , but the corrupt acts mentioned in the vision, are exactly what the catholic church ACTUALLY did in history and became renowned for..The decription of a future church and its behaviour fits the RC church PERFECTLY, and Christ tells them clearly, YES going to happen,and thats all your fault for being ignorant of my truth..No wonder the church banned all these ORIGINAL gospels as "herasy", for they destroy church credability 100%..

The New Testament, which is fully interconnected with the Old Testament, was written entirely by Catholics, apostles of Christ and two disciples of apostles, Luke and Mark.

Sorry to disillusion you - check out my other posts to show you the complete and utter nonesense that that is...Or easy - just actually READ those twos gospels to find clear admission contained within each, that is NOT any disciple writing ANY part of the new testamant. .Academically provable beyond any doubt and fully admitted BY your catholic authority..NO eye witness firsthand account offered in the bible anywhere - ALL written down by SCHOLARS who were DICTATED what to write by a ROMAN who didnit even believe ANY of the scripture at all, but was told to make a credable UNIVERSAL truth based on HUNDREDS of PRE EXISTANT DOCUMENTS..These others then discarded, banned, all traces removed from society by ultimate force as best they could, until ONLY catholic truth prevailed as dominant truth the world over....

Your last paragraph - sorry but that is indoctrinated mind speaking there..Im hoping you can take those blinkers off my friend..I can show you ORIGINAL scripture written by and CLAIMED BY THE DISCIPLES DIRECTLY - and that is something the bible totally lacks isnt it ?

 

[Forever_Catholic]

Pete, you have misquoted Christ and changed the meaning of his words to the point of blasphemy. I think you should read John 8 again to acknowledge and confirm for yourself what Jesus really said to the Pharisees. For the sake of your salvation, I hope you will study all of the New Testament and pray for understanding of our Lord’s truth.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

ForeverCatholic; Ah my friend - I have not misquoted Him at all - that was done on purpose BY the church itself...If there is blasphemy here,then it is the church that does it all - easily proved..

For instance - you offer me Bible gospel of John - but I already know for sure that DISCIPLE John, did NOT write that tome at all - it, along with all the new testamant canon, was manufactured by man, with an agenda to dominate all under religious disguise..

John DID write a gospel of course - but your church hunted down the original truth and replaced it with their own - all fully admitted by them - and of course, simply silenced any who knew that original truth - torture and murder, again,fully documented..The issues of sin and salvation are not at all that which the church taught you - Christ explains it very differently indeed,and He NEVER mentions any "adversary" such as "satan" for example - these things plus many other religious doctrines, are tools they use to keep you fearful and subjugated..

Its really easy to see truth here - undeniable actually...As my dear old Mum would tell us, that which cant speak, cannot tell lies either - HARD EVIDENCE is what we need that us undenuable..And it exists - plenty of it..See, people BURIED AND HID THEIR SACRED BOOKS - time and time again - and they did this BECAUSE the church was hunting them down and KILLING them, DESTROYING that truth...But look CLOSELY - modern times, we find these secret caches of knowledge - ORIGINAL GOSPELS that are ACTUALLY CLAIMED by the Disciples DIRECTLY - like they say page 1, its me John (or whoever - and Im writing the things down that Christ taught me directly - ALL of these similar first hand DIRECT connections to the LIVING CHRIST - and that is something NO BIBLE CANON CAN CLAIM AT ALL..is it..?..

And look - honestly - NOWHERE - have we EVER found ANY CANON gospels amongst such secret finds - like nowhere EVER - either THEY DID NOT EXIST, or those early forming groups simply didnt consider them to be Holy or iimportant enough to hide or preserve...ALL their sacred texts are preserved, but NO canon ANYWHERE among them EVER !!....And look closely - BURIED - UNTOUCHED - the truth they contain is the ORIGINAL truth as recorded by those who walked and talked with Christ - UNTOUCHED - UNALTERED by later church as it was BURIED ON PURPOSE to PREVENT such manipulation..

That is all crucial and real world HARD evidence - it bringts to light UNAVOIDABLE TRUTHS - the canon are NOT ORIGINAL AT ALL - and then we add the Catholics own admission, we see the whole truth of it...THEY TELL US themselves,that their own copies of canon scripture, their own ORIGINALS as they have it, earliest ACTUAL manuscripts that they PHYSICALLY possess - ONLY go back to MID FOURTH CENTURY....You know - Nicea council - bible INVENTED then - and so of course,that date is the earliest possible for THEIR version - so when church says now, our ELDEST records of the canon START mid fourth century - freely admitted - then we know for sure,they are COPIES and RE ARRANGEMENTS of PRE EXISTANT TEXTS - and we know that beyond any academic doubt as time and again we find BURIED texts - but NO CANON ANYWHERE !!

Then when we go CROSS REFFERANCE - such as with the actual account OF that famous Nicea meeting to find out what actually transpired - we see DETAILS and open admission again, that indeed, the canon was INVENTED - MANUFACTURED by editing HUNDREDS of such pre existant texts, making them conform to just FOUR books - that often even copy each other word for word...it is ALL fully admitted - academia knows and verifies it all - only lay catholics refuse to admit their bibles origins, even though it is all provable beyond any shadow of a doubt and ALL FULLY ADMITTED by the catholic authority themselves.....

RESEARCH my friend - OPEN MIND - THEY have LIED to YOU - not I - THEY have blasphemed Our Lords truth - not I - or better yet - take Christ at His word - invoke the Holy Ghost as HE alone taught - let that be your guide here - IT will show you the hard evidence you need,if you allow it

 

[blambore]

Yes. You sidestepped my question.

Oups... sorry, I somehow missed your reply.

To be honest, I'm not quite sure what you imply by "You sidestepped my question." It would be great if you could expand a little more on your responses. Are you dismissing the fact that one of the most prominent scholar of the Old Testament is suggesting that a study on the relationship between the abrahamic narrative and the cult of the ancestors would be worthwhile? Westermann is making such a suggestion because he feels there are good reasons for undertaking such a research and he realizes it has never been done before...

Pioneering any new study implies that there is no "peer-reviewed text providing support for the position", since it means developing a new position. All one can do is argue against the weaknesses, limitations and failures of past positions, in support for an alternative perspective. As long as the evidence is sound, reliable and supports a more efficient solution to the problem (Ockham razor), it think it should be worthy of consideration. Don't you think so?

I'm happy to share the bibliography I used to develop my position, but the forum won't let me post a message that exceeds 12,000 characters (I need 20,000 for the cited bibliography and 60,000 for all consulted). Some are older or more popular, but most references are based on contemporary and peer-reviewed academic researches...

Instead of trying to validate my work based on my credentials or that of authors who would support the same ideas (which there are none yet), why not look at the limitations I am overcoming, the quality of the argumentation, and the evidence that that supports it?

Alternatively, I can expand on a few ideas - for instance how to interpret the biblical chronologies in their historical context.

Cheers,

Bernard

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Blambore;

Alternatively, I can expand on a few ideas - for instance how to interpret the biblical chronologies in their historical context.

Now to my mind that could be quite interesting - and quite enlightening - given that you dont allow the "supernatural" elements - and given that some of those histories involve people living hundreds and hundreds of years....Please, do exapand - perhaps there is common ground still to be found.....

 

[blambore]

Hi All,

Thanks @PeteC-UK for allowing me to expand...

In his book King Hammurabi of Babylon: a Biography[1], Marc Van de Mieroop makes mention of an inscription from King Nabonidus (c 556-539 BCE) that refers to a tablet of King Burnaburiash (c 1359-1333 BCE). This tablet speaks of Hammurabi as having "lived 700 years before him. " Van de Mieroop reports that the calculations from king Burnaburiash are "substantially off" as we now know that Hammurabi did not reign of (c 1359-133) - 700 = c 2059-2033 BCE, but rather some 250 years later...

I demonstrate in my book that biblical chronologies were originally based on moon cycles and then later on the sexagesimal system. Fixing the first ones is easy. The ages must be divided by 12.4. However, if the later numbers look "high", but normal, it is because they have been poorly converted at the time of Nabonidus.

Fifty years ago, George Sarton wrote:

The Greeks inherited the sexagesimal system from the Sumerians but mixed it up with the decimal system, using the former only for submultiples of the unit and the latter for multiples, and thus they spoiled both systems and started a disgraceful confusion of which we are still the victims. They abandoned the principle of position, which had to be reintroduced from India a thousand years later. In short, their understanding of Babylonian arithmetic must have been very poor, since they managed to keep the worst features of it and to overlook the best. This must have been due to deficient tradition rather than lack of intelligence, or else, to the fact that, as we should remember, intelligence is always relative. [2]​

Sarton stresses that such mistakes were common among the Greeks, and that they were probably derived from a deficient tradition.

These "mistakes" can be corrected using the 6/10 multiplier (see complete demonstration in the book). Applying this factor, we find that Hammurabi would not have lived 700 years before Burnaburiash, but rather 700 * 6/10 = 420 years before him, or (1359-1333) - 420 = c. 1779-1753. Indeed, we know that he reigned from 1792 to 1750.

By systematically applying the 6/10 multiplier to ALL dates of the Old Testament, I show it is possible to reconstruct a biblical chronology that "sticks" to history.

Here’s a simple example: the information in 1 Kings 6: 1 tells us that the Exodus took place 480 years before the building of Solomon's Temple (966 BCE), or towards 1446 BCE. Of course, everyone knows that these dates do not match the reign of Ramses II. However, by applying the correction, we find that the Exodus took place 480 * 6/10 = 288 years before the building of the Temple, or in 1254 BCE, which is precisely in the reign of Ramses II. We also find that this date corresponds precisely to the signing of the peace treaty of the Battle of Kadesh. This Battle marked the beginning of the end of 300 years of Egyptian domination over Canaan.

Instead of understanding Exodus as the story of Hebrews fleeing Egypt, this brings us to understand Exodus as signaling the end of the domination of Egypt on Canaan... in both cases, the Hebrew people were "liberated" from the Egyptian yoke.

Restoring the biblical chronology using the 6/10 multiplier allows fixing the errors introduced by Nabonidus’ scribes when they converted sexagesimal numbers to the decimal system, and this exercise allows us to understand the biblical stories in their true historical context… and void of magic.

I can only urge you to download the book to understand the mathematical demonstration and to see the effect of applying this multiplier to the entire Old Testament (www.earthlycovenant.com).

[1] Van De Mieroop, Marc. 2005. King Hammurabi of Babylon: a Biography. Malden: Blackwell, p. 131
[2] Sarton, George. 1993. Ancient Science Through the Golden Age of Greece. Harvard: Harvard University Press. (Orig. pub. 1952-59.). p.118

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Blambore; But again - you are totally ignoring the hard evidence...There is NO MISTAKE in our interpretation of their counting system - scholars invented a discrepancy as they are totally unwilling to accept the offered evidence such as that you above term "supernatural" - but we should STRESS here again - this is NOT supernatural to THOSE that were alive at the time - THEY recorded ACTUAL real world events, that even though it is undeniable, recorded and unaltered proof of THIER truth, still modern "scholars" believe they know best...lol......To the Sumerians, they understood very VERY well - OTHER BEINGS - none human - lived among them - and these others DID live incredably long life spans..

We know that for sure because some of these "gods" as they became known - were PHYSICALLY PRESENT from start to finish throughout the entire THOUSANDS of years of DIRECT INTERACTION after homo sapiens are created....And of course the timeline itself, fits perfectly WITH that scientifically known emergance of modern man, exact same time frame, exact same geographical location as the tablets say....The confusion comes partly because BEFORE MANKIND these others were here ALONE, sole sentient inhabitants of planet earth for some hundreds of thousands of years BEFORE they decided to manufacture our species..and didnt even count time the way we humans do...I hesitate to call them Annunaki - those who from heaven came as it means - for this denotes them as as a purely ET and PHYSICAL being - and yet I tell you clearly THEY WERE NOT !!!

MANY MANY THINGS that you MUST consider if you want truth - many many questions you refuse to acknowldge or seek answers for - but with a little background knowledge from the SUMERIANS themselves, it ALL begins to make sense...

For instance - they gave us a narrative of HOW OUR SOLAR SYSTEM FORMED - wrote it all down in fine detail..Yes its true they placed gods as equivalant to planets without any seperation - and if you understood Consciousness and MIND as they did, then you would see why they do this and state it as accurate..and lo and behold - their description matches exactly what modern science also came to believe about how this solar system got here....ALL LIFE here came from THEIR homeworld and arrived here when two planets collided, causing the formation of a new planet - EARTH - and the "asteroid belt" is the result of the left over matter...DNA itself arrived on Earth FROM those planets, and at first only primitve life exists here...Their narrative explains it all again in fine verified detail - modern science knows for sure that what they wrote down in ancient Sumer is ACCURATE - even though there is no way they could ever have known this of course - unless someone was there PRESENT when it happened to witness it so accurately of course and who then TOLD us how it all began HERE..

They knew the formation and intimate cosmology THOUSANDS of years before any modern science...Similar - DNA ITSELF and the life processes - all known,recorded - even how to manipulate the process to produce required results - ALL KNOWN AND RECORDED.....

Academia though - totally ignores that and tries to make out this is all "human" on their own so it must be explained in purely modern human terms...NO WAY is that possible as EVERY source of ancient wisdom point directly to external influences that cause mankinds predicamant here - academia needs to stop ignoring EVIDENCE in favour of their made up versions of truth....LITERALLY - they cannot explain a thing so they refuse to allow it to even exist...lol....Ridiculous - as if modern scholars know more than those that LIVED their own truth..lol..the evidence DOES exist and needs explaining fully by academia if you are to have ANY credance at all...

To try to make THEIR truth comply with OUR truth is entirely the wrong approach..Instead - try to see how THEIR truth BECAME our truth - and it is easy to explain - all contained WITHIN the tablets themselves of course...A FULL narrative as said, with certain INDIV|DUAL people being PHYSICALLY PRESENT on earth for THOUSANDS of years unbroken..There are many many sources of knowledge that you are totally ignoring here...For instance - check out GILGAMESH and his search for IMMORTALITY - very enlightening..!!

learn of sacred foods and drinks - specific PLANTS and their properties..BOUGHT HERE by these off worlders that GAVE them such long lifespan that we THOUGHT they were immortal (compared to our less than a century span)...>EDEN was a PARADISE where they literally GREW the required plants and foods - and wisdom of such things was PROHIBITED to mankind as see - in real world terms - we partake of that food and it ALTERS OUR DNA...Again,science KNOWS THIS FOR SURE and to these ancient others it was common knowledge indeed..

Of course it is all very complicated but it is all explained in FULL DETAIL - things that such a basic and first civilisation here should have no knowledge or even a concept of. whatsoever - yet they DO know and understand and they tell us OTHERS were here before us..Long lifespans are EASILY explained - first as said - BEFORE MAN IS CREATED - these others are here alone - and when mankind is created these others teach us EVERYTHING - including THEIR OWN count of time and history - NOT based on Earth at all - but based on their own homeworld and ITS planetary orbit and time referance - making 1 year to them = to approxx 3600 EARTH YEARS...They called such a time frame - a "shah" and this is a major stumbling block for modern academia who deal only of course with standard Earth years..

You are going to find here that your truth will remain incomplete - until you can explain and account for certain scientific verified fact and how these ancient primitive people come to have these facts as the everyday wisdom they live by literally thousands of years before modern science knew it at all..Things such as DNA Itself, at the heart of the narratvie - need to be fully understood by academia - accounted for - before truth can emerge...For instance - long lifespans - easily explained given what we ACTUALLY know about dna and life....You will need to understand HOW dna itself actually works in order to get a grip on this lifespan issue..Understand here for basics - dna RESPONDS TO ENVIROMENT Folks !!

 

[PeteC-UK]

So - others are here and THEIR dna comes from an enviroment where their planetary orbit is 3600 years long compared to ours...THEIR dna RESPONDS to that cycle and in OUR terms they "age very slowly"...Their dna does not fail as quickly here as it cycles and reproduces it self keeping their physical bodies alive and working - plus they have supplements,special food and drink to help maintain this status quo....Their dna doesnt lose its efficiency here on earth, for a long long time - as it is based on a much much longer orbital cycle and the dna RESPONDS to its enviroment and is literally "calibrated" to produce life IN that original enviroment...Ergo - HERE they live LONG LONG LIVES..

So - they take a low level intelligent pre hominid - neanderthal or some such - and quite literally INFUSE it with their own dna...Actually - first - they TOOK OUT some primate dna that they would not need for their new creation - so although we share still like 98% genome with a chimp and apes - it is the bits we LACK - the genes that are turned OFF rather than on - that make the difference between the species and not actually the bits of dna we have extra..They modified an already existing hominid - tried a few times to enhance that primitive man from within mans own gene pool - failed - then tried cross bred us with other animal forms even - all to produce this "worker slave race" - again - failed - so eventually they infuse their new creature with THEIR OWN DNA.....Finally producing man as we are now....There is clear evidence that this is truth for as said, in the exact timeframe offered and in the exact location offered, mankind DOES appear on the Earth..There is no way they could record all this as truth - then have modern science confirm it all AS truth thousands of years later - UNLESS it is LEGITIMATE and ORIGINAL truth of course..

The first generation of man was created as a hybrid using dna that lasted for thousands of years of Earth cycles (responding to off world conditions that were migrated to here)... This is why they created Eden itself - a kind of biosphere to match their homeworld conditions..Successive generations of Earth born, lifespan became less and less - obviously - as dna is now responding to conditions HERE...All the way through - those others STAYED - INTERBRED - and fully hybridised the entire human race - obviously....WE were mating with ourselves, producing 100% pure mortal Earth born - and alongside THEY the original creators here - were likewise BREEDING - both among themselves and ALSO among MANKIND who SHARED THEIR DNA AND FORM !!

This resulted in a long line of successive "gods" pure born off worlders whose dna likewise slowly reverted to the Earth cycle - and also hybrid "demigods" who as we are told became "mighty men of renown" - KINGS and their hero champions - not least of which is to be found in the Jewish narrative you study..if you want full truth here then you will need account for ALL sources of wisdom - and will need a good understanding of science to verify the things you will uncover..This is much more a search for scientific truth than a search for written historical accuracy - and through Sumer the two efforts combine seamlessly and given what science now knows as fact, present a very plausable obvious account to our beginnings.....

Through the mixing of off world dna mankind here first had extraordinary lifespans - we call them demigods...This naturally shortened as their successive generations adapted to purely Earth mortal conditions and so eventually mankind gained the standard century or so of life HERE as our dna RESPONDS to this enviroment..All the way through - these others who created us - have tried to with hold certain knowledge - specifically the dna manipulation aspect - for they tell us quite adamantly - that they are able to literally take the "life essence" - which itself is ETERNAL - a SOUL as we would term it - and as the physical body fails - they can then IMPLANT that Soul,directly into another prepared and waiting form,.TRANSMIGRATION OF SOUL - according to their literature - is tied intimately to SPECIFIC dna constructs - as we know - switches - that get turned on or off BY the dna itself as it RESPONDS to the enviroment it inhabits...

They know and understand CONSCIOUSNESS itself Folks - SPIRITUAL REALITY as we modern times would term it - MIND journeys - ETERNAL existance without any physical form and how to cause that Consciousness to inhabit a physical vessel AT WILL...To truly understand all this truth - we need add in all manner of OTHER sources - just as one "god" named Enki was a master of PHYSICAL sciences - so too others, notably his own son whom we know as the Egyptian god Thoth - were masters of the "etheric" or quantum sciences...We have for instance - other hard evidence - EMERALD tablets of Thoth - which are from the SAME ORIGINAL SOURCE and that go hand in hand with the PHYSICAL accoount of creation and explain HOW the Conscious Spirit first came to inhabit any forms at all.. As said - this is an issue also of REINCARNATION - literally the gods ESSENCE remains UNALTERED - memory and experience encoded n specific DNA and is placed directly into ANOTHER mortal form - different appearance,SAME PERSONALITY !!

Hence we have MANY NAMES for what turns out to be the SAME GODS and characters...Not so hard to understand - BUDDHISTS still believe and PRACTICE the exact same system - Buddha is ALWAYS Buddha - but chooses DIFFERENT FORMS to express itself..

All this - manipulation of physical dna - and of course transmigration of Souls - plus of course, knowledge of certain plants and foods - nectar of the gods and all that - tree of ever lasting life - CHEMICAL ARRANGEMENTS - that enhance the function of dna - all that will NEED to be explained by academia if they wish to tackle this issue of long lived people in our ancient past...And until they start actually doing that then their truth will always be incomplete when compared to the original truth the Sumer narratvies contain - scientifically verified original truth that is..

It is all explained FULLY ALREADY of course in that peoples own recorded truth..Instead of futilely trying to make them fit in with us - we should stick to original truth and so make OUR history fit in with THEIRS..Apart from the physical planetary orbits being different so giving different time measurements - we also need to realise they have means to PROLONG physical life with specific nutrients - and also - I know you will dismiss this out of hand but it is true and all spiritual truth rests on this premise - these others know HOW TO TRANSFER SOULS - they know and manipulate that which we now term REINCARNATION !!

Not so very hard to see at all - remnants of such truth exist even in the world today - Buddha as offered identical spiritual wisdom - but your closed mind will reject it out of hand here Im sure as "supernatural" - still it needs to be said and considered honestly, as it is how the people themselves explained it first - and a good deal of their explanation is ALREADY verified by our most trusted science..If you want the rest of their truth, then you will need to pay attention to what THEY said themselves - give that credance above what your mates and "peers" falsely accept as truth in the face of overwhelming contradiictory evidence...

 

[blambore]

@PeteC-UK,

I try to rationalize my thoughts as much as possible and there is one valuable criterion I use for weighing between two hypothesis, and that is the law or parsimony, or Ockham’s Razor: Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected.

My hypothesis is based on known and verifiable facts:
1) Mesopotamians were using a sexagesimal base for their calculations.
2) Converting from sexagesimal to decimal is a tricky operation
3) Extraordinary lifespans that are the result of failed mathematical conversion
4) Fixed conversion errors offers a chronology that works

You are suggesting an alternative hypothesis that relies on:
1) The presence of off worlders for which there are no hard evidence (despite your claims – interpretation of ancient texts is NOT evidence)
2) Extraordinary lifespans leading to chronologies that do not work
3) Infused DNA to change the course of evolution
4) Transmigration of souls

All you are suggesting makes perfect sense… but so do sci-fi movies!

Throughout the ages, men have always been tempted to revert to supernatural events in order to explain what they didn’t understand. Indeed, supernatural events can do everything and solve everything. It only takes imagination. Unfortunately, such imagination is highly subjective. It only makes sense for those who believe in it.

This doesn’t mean supernatural events aren’t logical; quite the contrary, it simply means that the premises you must adhere to are flawed. Supernatural events require a leap of faith – they are the mirage of reason. Once you embrace supernatural events, you will find millions of reasons to consolidate your beliefs and you can hardly understand why “everyone else” (including myself) don’t get it because it makes so much sense! But don’t fool yourself; this is the very same process that is at work in every single religion. Kamikaze blowing themselves up use the same flawed reasoning, and yet, they are no more dummies than you and I. It therefore shows how convinced they are to be holding the utter truth…

The challenge is that human brains can hardly distinguish illusions from reality. This is why it is so critical (for our own sanity) that we be critical of ideas for which there is no objective evidence. Again, some see the Bible as evidence for God, the same way others see ancient texts as evidence for off worlders. However these are NOT evidence; they are only example of self-delusion.

You obviously have a fair amount of personal energies invested into these ideas, and you have found answers to questions that were important to you. As always, the more energies we invest convincing ourselves that something is true (religion, science, etc), the more difficult it is to change our mind. The key is to come back to the basic premise, take a hard look at the law of parsimony, and be very suspicious of any hypothesis that relies on fringe premises.

But we are digressing and I really would like to keep this thread focused on its original subject for the benefits of the members of this forum...

Best of luck.

Bernard

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Blambore;


Round the curcle again..lol...

To those alive at the time - it is NOT suprernatural at all - it is normal,natural,only truth they have, veified by these others AMONG them who they can actually talk to...

And to us modern times - its not supernatural at all - their accepted wisdom - dna, cosmology especially - is likewise, natural now to us ALSO - we VERIFY that which they took for granted, meaning all share the SAME CORE LEGITIMATE TRUTH...

Only difference is - the method they came by that truth - but make no mistake - they DID have it - SOMEHOW - they are able to know things that we are only JUST relaising this last century !!!

Their truth - IS - OUR truth !! At the very core of it all - scientific UNIVERSAL truths are KNOWN by them way way WAY before academia says such a thing is even possible !! You need to EXPLAIN THAT core element FULLY - then perhaps there can be credance given to the rest..

Why you even doubt their own explanation is beyond belief actually - you have no actual reason to distrust them, do you..?...Not really..

I mean - they tell you certain universal truths that they SHOULD NOT KNOW - but clearly DO know SOMEHOW - and for sure then we see we have badly misjudged them - inmany areas they are more advanced than even we are today - they knew it all FIRST so already we know they are wise beyond their means and this is PROVEN beyond any doubt at all..SOMEHOW they have that wisdom that WE CANT EXPLAIN how they go tit, yet we know for usre it is truth...

So - what reason to doubt ANY of the things they say..?...We already know - we CANT explain it in modern terms - so why not just accept THEIR OWN EXPLANATION..?..we have no reason to do anything else - parsimony - Ochams razor - careful mate seems you may cut yourself there

academic pride and arrogance wont accept that those they call "primitive culture" actually had wisdom that surpasses our own and that the best modern academic minds simply cannot account for them having - so instead of saying they dont know, so instead of accepting and investigating sources of knowledge that explain it all - academia insists we ignore the truth in favour of their own arrogance and self importance.....

 

[blambore]

Why you even doubt their own explanation is beyond belief actually - you have no actual reason to distrust them, do you..?...Not really..

@PeteC-UK, I admire your pugnacity, but I have yet to see a single shred of evidence. Where are all these explanations you keep referring to? I am keen to investigate the evidence you would like to provide and I promise to get back to you with my personal take on it; meanwhile, would you do me the favor of doing the same for me?

I have spent the last twelve years researching and developing a new hypothesis on the origin of monotheism that is, in my view, is far more efficient than the widely accepted hypothesis of "oral tradition", and this is what I would really like to discuss here...