Questions about Judaism

[sunsplash]

Well, "correctly" depends on who you ask. With a husband who isn't interested I doubt he's going to concede to an Orthodox observance. You'll have to decide for yourself who's "correct" Shabbas you're going to observe.

Holidays? Hmm. I think I'll let someone else chime in on that one. Books are all well and good but experience the Holiday with others is what is going to teach you the most. Holidays are meant to be shared. I know there are many books who talk about them but I'm not sure which ones are good. I'm sure someone else will have an idea for you.

I meant correct as in at least basic, general do's and don't's - I realize there is no one right way to be Jewish, lol. I would LOVE to experience a holiday with a Jewish family but need to branch out first. Say some prayers for me that shake my intimidation away! I had a strange dream last night that I had converted and my husband was considering conversion too, but it was Christmas time and all of our family were shoving decorations at us and giving my daughter (who's only 17 months) Christmas gifts and it was so loud that no one could hear my objections. I woke up very upset at my in-laws, lol.

I might get that book as well, and, just a quick question (sorry for any intrusion as well ), but, what are the times Shabbas starts and finishes?.

No intrusion at all - this isn't an exclusive thread just for my questions - we can feed off of each other and cover twice as much together.

Is anyone familiar with the website myjewishlearning.com? I'm wondering if it is any good or accurate - I read an article on there about converts, which is how I found it.

 

[Dena]

Is anyone familiar with the website myjewishlearning.com? I'm wondering if it is any good or accurate - I read an article on there about converts, which is how I found it.

It seems fairly accurate to me. I don't believe they endorse one particular view (though I could be wrong) as it seems to me they target a wide audience. I don't know if you've seen this site but it's for interfaith families. You might find something useful or helpful here. InterfaithFamily.com

 

[Levite]

Is it a requirement in all branches of Judaism for married women to cover their hair?

No. Nearly all Haredi women cover their hair, and most centrist Orthodox Ashkenazi women, and many if not most Sefardi/Mizrahi religious women; and many in Modern Orthodoxy do so as well. Among the Modern Orthodox, and among some in the right wing of the Conservative movement, it is considered appropriate for a woman to wear some kind of hair covering (hat, scarf, snood, etc.) to synagogue services and other public religious functions. Most Conservative women do not do so, and I have never met a Reform woman who did so.

The reason behind this custom (and it is a custom-- it is not halakhah, but minhag, an inherited custom, which among the Haredim is considered minhag halakhah, a custom which over time has taken on the force of a law) stems from a belief expressed by some Rabbis in the Talmud that a woman's hair was erotic, and thus required covering, lest it be indecent, and inspire men to impure thoughts. That line of thought is also why Orthodox women in general dress very conservatively, and Haredi women dress for maximum coverage, looseness, and drab colors; and why Haredi women are forbidden from singing in public, as a woman's voice is also said by those same Rabbis to be unduly erotic.

What would be an easy way to try and begin celebrating Sabbath and holidays? Any advice on rituals or prayers for observance or books/guides that are easy for a layman to follow?

For beginners, Ron Wolfson's Shabbat: The Family Guide to Preparing for and Welcoming the Sabbath is actually very helpful.

For nearly everyone, Michael Strassfeld's two excellent books, Jewish Holidays and A Book of Life: Embracing Judaism As a Spiritual Practice make indispensible resources for how to understand our practices better and observe them with greater fulfillment.

What are the times Shabbas starts and finishes?.

In addition to the Chabad candle-lighting site, I recommend Hebcal.com for all things time-related. This awesome site gives custom candle-lighting, havdalah times, parashah, Hebrew date, holidays, everything, for anywhere and everywhere. Great resource.

Is anyone familiar with the website myjewishlearning.com? I'm wondering if it is any good or accurate - I read an article on there about converts, which is how I found it.

It's not a bad site. It's a little variable, but for a first resource, it's not bad, as long as one knows to not stop there, and investigate everything more thoroughly.

 

[sunsplash]

I didn't want to hijack xkatz's thread off topic so I'm bringing it here. Levite, you said in his Judaism & Diversity thread that mixing various philosophies with Judaism or Jewish practices is ok but the blending of other religious rituals with Judaism is a violation of Jewish Law. I made a thread a while back in the Seekers DIR about combining Judaism with Unitarian Universalism, and while I know as a non-Jew I'm not breaking any rules with that, would that be looked down upon in the Jewish community? I don't want to offend any...I don't know how to put this..."legitimate" Jew's (that may be a poor description) by borrowing your traditions and beliefs.

I guess I'm more looking for some sort of temporary intermediary before taking a full plunge in conversion or sailing away - a way to test the waters in a way that isn't so obscure or unfamiliar from my upbringing and current beliefs. Unitarian Universalism seems less like a religion and more like a social club for progressive idealists, so couple that with my Abrahamic background and faith/beliefs that coincide with Judaism more closely than any other religion I've come across and I thought I may have found a good fit for the time being... but after reading your reply to Sendejem (sp?) I'm no longer as excited as I thought I was.

It gets exhausting when trying to answer someone's "what religion are you" question with, "well, I basically believe in the same theology as Judaism, but I'm not converted because of fear and family right now, so I'm basically a non-Islamic, non-Christian, Abrahamic G-d believing person who, believes in the validity of all religious paths, does not believe in Hell or original sin or Satan as a devil-type being, who values the here and now without an ulterior motive of earning a place in paradise. So I don't know...what would you call me?" :areyoucra

I wish there was a checklist: "If you believe A, B, C...& Z - congrats, you should be Jewish! BUT, if marked *this* for M and *that* for Q, please see a referal to this faith here." LOL

 

[Levite]

I didn't want to hijack xkatz's thread off topic so I'm bringing it here. Levite, you said in his Judaism & Diversity thread that mixing various philosophies with Judaism or Jewish practices is ok but the blending of other religious rituals with Judaism is a violation of Jewish Law. I made a thread a while back in the Seekers DIR about combining Judaism with Unitarian Universalism, and while I know as a non-Jew I'm not breaking any rules with that, would that be looked down upon in the Jewish community? I don't want to offend any...I don't know how to put this..."legitimate" Jew's (that may be a poor description) by borrowing your traditions and beliefs.

I guess I'm more looking for some sort of temporary intermediary before taking a full plunge in conversion or sailing away - a way to test the waters in a way that isn't so obscure or unfamiliar from my upbringing and current beliefs. Unitarian Universalism seems less like a religion and more like a social club for progressive idealists, so couple that with my Abrahamic background and faith/beliefs that coincide with Judaism more closely than any other religion I've come across and I thought I may have found a good fit for the time being... but after reading your reply to Sendejem (sp?) I'm no longer as excited as I thought I was.

It gets exhausting when trying to answer someone's "what religion are you" question with, "well, I basically believe in the same theology as Judaism, but I'm not converted because of fear and family right now, so I'm basically a non-Islamic, non-Christian, Abrahamic G-d believing person who, believes in the validity of all religious paths, does not believe in Hell or original sin or Satan as a devil-type being, who values the here and now without an ulterior motive of earning a place in paradise. So I don't know...what would you call me?" :areyoucra

I wish there was a checklist: "If you believe A, B, C...& Z - congrats, you should be Jewish! BUT, if marked *this* for M and *that* for Q, please see a referal to this faith here." LOL

Well, since you haven't yet converted to Judaism, you are currently free to do as you like, of course.

Once you have converted, I would say that you would have to disassociate yourself from UU.

The thing is, from what I know about UU, it's not that any of their teachings are objectionable from a moral or ethical point of view-- quite the contrary, their tolerance is exemplary. And pluralistic Jews would certainly agree that many religions hold valid truths, and one need not be greater than another. But the Jewish tradition is quite clear that, while other peoples may have their own valid ways to relate to God, Judaism is our way-- our only way. As Jews, it is our privilege and responsibility to relate to God through Torah and mitzvot, and to refrain from relating to God in the ways of others. That's not to say that our way is better than other ways: only to say that it is ours, for us and not for others, as their ways are not for us.

And while it might be technically possible to associate with UU and not violate any of the commandments prohibiting foreign worship, it is a non-Jewish religious organization, and it was started by (and is still mostly comprised of) people of nominal Christian background and identification. It is not proper for a Jew to belong to such a group. Even if one technically remains within the bounds of Jewish law, one would be constantly walking a fine line, and it would be unseemly.

That said, it would be my advice (and I would wager that any rabbi worth his or her salt would concur) that belonging to such a group once one had actively begun the process of studying for conversion to Judaism would be both unseemly and counterproductive. To become a Jew is to leave one's previous spiritual and religious worlds behind, and to join one's soul and fate to the Jewish people.

So, IMO, there's nothing wrong with your being UU now. There's nothing wrong with being UU and reading up on Judaism, talking to Jews, thinking about conversion. But I think that once you "take the plunge" and make your decision, and actively begin the process of conversion, you would need to cease being UU.

 

[Zardoz]

...It gets exhausting when trying to answer someone's "what religion are you" question with, .... So I don't know...what would you call me?" ...

I understand your predicament, everybody must be 'something', a label to identify oneself...

What about just sticking with 'Noachide' as you already mentioned? It fits your position best, nu?

...So, IMO, there's nothing wrong with your being UU now. There's nothing wrong with being UU and reading up on Judaism, talking to Jews, thinking about conversion. But I think that once you "take the plunge" and make your decision, and actively begin the process of conversion, you would need to cease being UU.

I would concur. UU is fine, if you don't want the much-harder-to-explain Noachide label. However, once you begin the conversion process in earnest (attending Shabbat services) then you would have to quit UU (but you wouldn't need to quit a Noachide ID)

 

[David_2010]

For beginners, Ron Wolfson's Shabbat: The Family Guide to Preparing for and Welcoming the Sabbath is actually very helpful.

For nearly everyone, Michael Strassfeld's two excellent books, Jewish Holidays and A Book of Life: Embracing Judaism As a Spiritual Practice make indispensible resources for how to understand our practices better and observe them with greater fulfillment.

I think I'll add those books to my list too. They sound quite good.

In addition to the Chabad candle-lighting site, I recommend Hebcal.com for all things time-related. This awesome site gives custom candle-lighting, havdalah times, parashah, Hebrew date, holidays, everything, for anywhere and everywhere. Great resource.

Thanks very much for te link, I appreciate it .

 

[sunsplash]

Noachide might be the best fit for now, temporarily or otherwise. It is my understanding that they aren't allowed to observe the Sabbath - but does that mean at all or just not in the same traditional manner as Jews?

I like the idea of hair covering in some form for prayer - physical reminders seem to help keep me focused, for instance I usually cover my eyes as well, not just close them, to sort of shut out the world. Would it be inappropriate to continue under the description of Noachide?

I know of no Noachide institutions nearby, so if I sought public worship would I be welcome in a synagogue? I know pretty much anyone can walk into a church and pray but I don't want to be escorted out of somewhere for not being Jewish, lol. I figure that might be a decent way for more exposure to Judaism anyway - if and when I get the courage to go seeing as how it would be just me right now (and eventully my daughter - she's 17 months tomorrow so still young and possibly a disturbance, lol).

Is Valerie Moody's "Feasts of Adonai" any good? I think it is geared more to Christians which makes me hesitate, though maybe it would be a decent accompaniment to the 3 suggested by Levite earlier.

 

[xkatz]

I know of no Noachide institutions nearby, so if I sought public worship would I be welcome in a synagogue? I know pretty much anyone can walk into a church and pray but I don't want to be escorted out of somewhere for not being Jewish, lol.

Since the terrorist attacks in Buenos Aires, synagogues in "Western" countries have felt the need to increase their security. Unfortunately, for not being a member of synagogue, you might not be able to just walk into a synagogue out of the blue for security purposes. You would most likely have to talk to someone about attending synagogue services.

 

[Dena]

In addition to the Chabad candle-lighting site, I recommend Hebcal.com for all things time-related. This awesome site gives custom candle-lighting, havdalah times, parashah, Hebrew date, holidays, everything, for anywhere and everywhere. Great resource.

Thanks for that link.

It's not a bad site. It's a little variable, but for a first resource, it's not bad, as long as one knows to not stop there, and investigate everything more thoroughly.

I think it's a good idea for those of us who are learning to double check everything we read. :yes:

 

[Dena]

Noachide might be the best fit for now, temporarily or otherwise. It is my understanding that they aren't allowed to observe the Sabbath - but does that mean at all or just not in the same traditional manner as Jews?

Just not in the Orthodox Traditional manner. You could do something so simple as turn on a light and it would suffice as not observing in the manner. I doubt it's going to be an issue for you.

I like the idea of hair covering in some form for prayer - physical reminders seem to help keep me focused, for instance I usually cover my eyes as well, not just close them, to sort of shut out the world. Would it be inappropriate to continue under the description of Noachide?

To continue covering your eyes? I don't see a problem. There wouldn't be a problem with covering your hair/head either.

I know of no Noachide institutions nearby, so if I sought public worship would I be welcome in a synagogue?

Probably. If you chose a Non-Orthodox Synagogue I doubt there would be any issue. Orthodox would probably be fine with it too. I wouldn't expect everyone to know the Noahide term. Do you have a local synagogue?

Is Valerie Moody's "Feasts of Adonai" any good? I think it is geared more to Christians which makes me hesitate, though maybe it would be a decent accompaniment to the 3 suggested by Levite earlier.

No, I don't think that is what you want. She's coming from a total Christian perspective, relating her ideas back to Jesus.

 

[Yona]

For beginners, Ron Wolfson's Shabbat: The Family Guide to Preparing for and Welcoming the Sabbath is actually very helpful.

I also recommend The Sabbath by Rav Abraham Heschel.

 

[Dena]

I also recommend The Sabbath by Rav Abraham Heschel.

Oh, yes, that is a good one. I'm not so sure it's a starter book though, you think?

 

[Yona]

Oh, yes, that is a good one. I'm not so sure it's a starter book though, you think?

Ah, true, perhaps not but book worth mentioning, one of my favorites.

 

[Alulu]

Shalom,

I have a questioning if you dont mind me asking.
What is the Jewish stance (from a theological perspective) on jews that are atheists and do not believe in a God or any theistic faith-system perse?

 

[sunsplash]

No, I don't think that is what you want. She's coming from a total Christian perspective, relating her ideas back to Jesus.

Oh no - that is definitely not what I want. Thanks.

 

[sunsplash]

Probably. If you chose a Non-Orthodox Synagogue I doubt there would be any issue. Orthodox would probably be fine with it too. I wouldn't expect everyone to know the Noahide term. Do you have a local synagogue?

I have 3 nearby...one is orthodox, one reform, and I don't know about the 3rd but I think that is orthodox as well. I didn't realize there could be security issues with attending as xkatz pointed out so now I may have to call one before just showing up!

 

[Levite]

I also recommend The Sabbath by Rav Abraham Heschel.

An awesome book, absolutely indispensible-- and one of my favorites, also. But not really a practical, how-to guide. Indispensible as both explanation and evocation of the massive spiritual import of Shabbat, but a book for heart and soul, not really for mind and hand.

What is the Jewish stance (from a theological perspective) on jews that are atheists and do not believe in a God or any theistic faith-system perse?

Well, as I have mentioned in a couple of other threads, a Jew is a Jew, regardless of what they believe, or how they observe. So, even an atheist, utterly secular Jew is still a Jew in identity, provided that their mother was Jewish, or that they were properly converted by a rabbinical court, according to Jewish law.

However, identity aside, it is extremely difficult to be an atheist Jew and still have any affiliation with the Jewish community. The Jewish people are a socioreligious ethnicity, and our traditions, our music, our calendrical year, and the bulk of our writings involve religion, religious philosophy and poetry, and the observance of the commandments. The religion of Judaism is centered on the covenant between God and Israel. If one doesn't believe in God, one has very little left. Most secular, atheist Jewish movements have failed. The only one that has, to date, persisted, is Zionism, and that is because there is something large and central to take the place of God in the movement: the State of Israel. And yet, Israeli culture and Jewish culture are not at all the same thing. And today, the majority of Israelis, even those we label "secular" are mostly not atheists, nor are the statistical majority of them even technically secular, they are merely not Orthodox.

Generally speaking, the only atheist Jews that have managed to retain deep affiliation with the community and make some kind of impact have been those who were exceptionally educated in traditional texts and knowledge, and have based their secular philosophies in the grounding of that education.

From the point of view of the tradition, atheism is unacceptable. We have structured our lives around our relations with God: every day we say blessings, we pray, we make use of ritual objects, all intended to thank God, to praise God, to remind ourselves of the good things God has done for us, to ask God's aid and comfort, and so on and so forth. How could an atheist do any of these things? And if they did them, not believing in God, why would they not be meaningless?

From the tradition's point of view, atheism is apikorsut, a kind of heresy. It is forbidden to us, and those Jews who embrace it are considered in error. Generally speaking, there are few practical consequences to this, but one might be that a professed and public atheist is not permitted to be a communal prayer leader, which is an important duty in Jewish society.

 

[Yona]

An awesome book, absolutely indispensible-- and one of my favorites, also. But not really a practical, how-to guide. Indispensible as both explanation and evocation of the massive spiritual import of Shabbat, but a book for heart and soul, not really for mind and hand.

I can agree to this but when I wrote this I didn't know it was only 'how-to' suggestions I just thought it was on the subject of the Sabbath. Nonetheless, even if it's of a higher level than 'beginner' it wouldn't hurt to put on a booklist?

 

[Alulu]

Well, as I have mentioned in a couple of other threads, a Jew is a Jew, regardless of what they believe, or how they observe. So, even an atheist, utterly secular Jew is still a Jew in identity, provided that their mother was Jewish, or that they were properly converted by a rabbinical court, according to Jewish law.

However, identity aside, it is extremely difficult to be an atheist Jew and still have any affiliation with the Jewish community. The Jewish people are a socioreligious ethnicity, and our traditions, our music, our calendrical year, and the bulk of our writings involve religion, religious philosophy and poetry, and the observance of the commandments. The religion of Judaism is centered on the covenant between God and Israel. If one doesn't believe in God, one has very little left. Most secular, atheist Jewish movements have failed. The only one that has, to date, persisted, is Zionism, and that is because there is something large and central to take the place of God in the movement: the State of Israel. And yet, Israeli culture and Jewish culture are not at all the same thing. And today, the majority of Israelis, even those we label "secular" are mostly not atheists, nor are the statistical majority of them even technically secular, they are merely not Orthodox.

Generally speaking, the only atheist Jews that have managed to retain deep affiliation with the community and make some kind of impact have been those who were exceptionally educated in traditional texts and knowledge, and have based their secular philosophies in the grounding of that education.

From the point of view of the tradition, atheism is unacceptable. We have structured our lives around our relations with God: every day we say blessings, we pray, we make use of ritual objects, all intended to thank God, to praise God, to remind ourselves of the good things God has done for us, to ask God's aid and comfort, and so on and so forth. How could an atheist do any of these things? And if they did them, not believing in God, why would they not be meaningless?

From the tradition's point of view, atheism is apikorsut, a kind of heresy. It is forbidden to us, and those Jews who embrace it are considered in error. Generally speaking, there are few practical consequences to this, but one might be that a professed and public atheist is not permitted to be a communal prayer leader, which is an important duty in Jewish society.

Shalom,

Thank you very much for your answer. Though not expected from a Muslim (I am a Muslim) I am always interested in Jewish history and culture. And not from a antisemitic point of view. I do have two more questions though in relation to your answer. Forgive me for any mistakes and strange questions, I am not familiar with judaism or jews from personal experience.

I asked this question because I would like to know if there are any theological consequences for Atheistic Jews regarding life after death. Is there any "punishment/reward system" according to jewish understanding or religious scholars for example, related to the actions/choices made by Jews in this life and especially the act of "apikorsut"? If so, what is the consequence?

PS: Just one more question. Are there jewish groups who "proselytize" among jews who lost their connection with the Jewish religion or are not practicing it at all?
Has it been discussed, present and past, by jewish scholars and/or groups?
I can understand you do not proselytize towards non-jews but could also understand if you do towards jews who seem to have been lost by "foreign" philosophies for example.