I meant the whole point of it being brought up, here, on RF.
Ok, that wasnt clear to me however, It doesn't matter where it's brough up. The hypothesis remain the same until new evidence is found that would impact on the hypothesis
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I meant the whole point of it being brought up, here, on RF.
The whole point of the multiverse theory is to eliminate "God" from the picture by eliminating the need for a first cause. So, yes, the implication is on an eternity of multiverse.
None of this actually eliminates "God", or even a first cause, precisely because subjugated time to eternity, rendering it irrelevant on both counts; as causation, and as justification for rejecting causation. Leaving the question of causation intact.
I meant the whole point of it being brought up, here, on RF.
What make you think the “universe arose from non-existence”?Second question. If this universe arose from non-existence, can it return to non-existence.
Concerning the big bang and the beginning of time and space explanation, it seems to me that there could not be a multiverse for to entertain the possibility would be to suggest that there is other potential for the creation of space in nothingness. So if there were a multiverse, what is the relationship between the space of this universe and that of another in the multiverse? And a part of this same question, given a multiverse and the implication of some sort of potential for space to come into existence from nothing that allows many universes, why would it not be possible for there to be an infinite number of universes in the multiverse?
Ok, it was just my expression wrt the origin of the big bang, how would you put it?What make you think the “universe arose from non-existence”?
It doesn’t say that in the Big Bang model, so which model you are referring to?
So if you are a skeptic of the multiverse hypothesis, then the question is not for you!Since the Multiverse is untested, empirically, it is largely speculative. So I don’t see how you can compare one “space” against the other -verses.
The space in this universe is the only space there are, so asking what space are like in other -verses seem...well, pointless.
So if you are a skeptic of the multiverse hypothesis, then the question is not for you!
Fair enough, but if I am not mistaken, the big bang is also not an observable event that can be tested in a lab, or duplicated, that which happens after can be theorized and tested, but not the bb itself.What you need to understand, Ben, is that Multiverse isn’t science. It is a proposed model, like a hypothesis, but not aa falsifiable model.
So some skepticism is actually healthy. It is actually wiser course, to not accept models “by default” - any model - until they have been tested ("tested" as in observations, evidence, data, etc, as well as being empirical and verifiable), or at the very least, be falsifiable and testable.
I am not even sure you can even call Multiverse a “hypothesis”, because a hypothesis needs to be falsifiable and testable, which the Multiverse isn’t...yet, maybe never.
The only reason why Multiverse is still around, it is because the model is theoretically and mathematically “possible”.
But being “possible” isn’t enough.
Science required any explanatory and predictive model to be tested with empirical evidence or repeatable experiments, which will give data to scientists to reach one of two possible conclusions or outcomes:
Data gained from evidence and experiments, provide the necessary information to conclude if the model have chance of being science or not.
- ...tested true, then the model has been verified, so it is “probable”, or...
- ...tested false, then the model has been refuted, so it is “improbable”.
And you are assuming that Multiverse has one model...
...there are actually a number of different versions and different concepts of Multiverse. Some are derived from the inflationary model of the big bang, while others are derived from String Theory (String Cosmology, Brane Cosmology, M-theory, etc). And the variants of string theory are also not science, because they are also untested.
But regardless of which flavors you preferred, not of them have observational evidence to support multiverse, hence it isn't science.
Right now, Multiverse concepts are considered more philosophy than scientific hypothesis.
So why would I am not be skeptical of untested model?
What you need to understand, Ben, is that Multiverse isn’t science. It is a proposed model, like a hypothesis, but not aa falsifiable model.
or at the very least, be falsifiable and testable.
not of them have observational evidence to support multiverse,
Fair enough, but if I am not mistaken, the big bang is also not an observable event that can be tested in a lab, or duplicated, that which happens after can be theorized and tested, but not the bb itself.
So how would you describe how the universe came into existence, in place of my description as “the universe arose from non-existence”?
Secondly, it has never been necessary to check all the predictions of a theory to consider it as legitimate science.
General relativity, for example, has been extensively tested in the visible world and this allows us to use it within black holes even though it is not possible to go there to check." ㅤ:)
It is possible to test this hypothesis. An interesting way to do it, is to look for supermassive black holes with a specific mass distribution, as cosmologist Alexander Vilenkin explained:
"[In] this multiverse picture... of eternal inflation all these vacuum states will be populated to have bubbles within bubbles, within bubbles. When inflation was going on in our region of space, bubbles of different vacua popped out and expanded. When we worked on this idea we thought, 'What is going to happen to these bubbles when inflation ends [in our region]?' The answer is that instead of expanding they will start contracting and they will collapse; they will form black holes. And we've calculated the mass distribution of these black holes. So, there is a very uniquely defined distribution of masses. And, for one thing, these black holes are interesting because they may explain, say, the origin of supermassive black holes that we observe in galactic centers. But also if we really detect black holes with this predicted mass distribution, that would be evidence for the multiverse, that we indeed had this period where bubbles were nucleating. So, these are basically failed bubbles, these big black holes. So, these are direct tests." ㅤ:)
Most common models of Inflation predict a multiverse. According to Alexander Vilenkin models that avoid it tend to be contrived and unrealistic. “With the simplest assumptions, you end up with eternal inflation and the multiverse,” says physicist Andreas Albrecht of the University of California. "It's hard to build models of inflation that don't lead to a multiverse," said Alan Guth, an MIT theoretical physicist. "It's not impossible, so I think there's still certainly research that needs to be done. But most models of inflation do lead to a multiverse, and evidence for inflation will be pushing us in the direction of taking the multiverse seriously." Guth also said, "There are ways of constructing inflation so that would not be eternal... [but] those models are pretty contrived just in terms of the dynamics that they assume... It is very hard to construct a version of inflation that would not sometimes become eternal and my view is that if it can sometimes become eternal – since eternal is forever – that just plainly makes it eternal." Other researchers agreed on the link between inflation and the multiverse. "In most of the models of inflation, if inflation is there, then the multiverse is there," said Andrei Linde, a Stanford University theoretical physicist. "It's possible to invent models of inflation that do not allow [a] multiverse, but it's difficult. Every experiment that brings better credence to inflationary theory brings us much closer to hints that the multiverse is real." Cosmologist Paul Steinhardt also commented: "Some suggest trying to construct theories of inflation that are not eternal... But eternality is a natural consequence of inflation plus quantum physics." (The Inflation Debate) Cosmologist George Efstathiou confirmed this: "The type of inflation [that] the Planck data says happened, strongly favors flat potentials; a scalar field evolving in a flat potential. [If that's the case] then inflation is eternal. So, the Planck data says that inflation is eternal. And if inflation is eternal, then you have a multiverse. That's why I say this is one of the most important results from Planck, where we're being pushed towards, now experimentally, in the direction of a multiverse." ㅤ:)
See my complete refutation of his arguments here: #1432
Possible, Φ...possible, and only implied that Multiverse may one day be verified through verification of inflationary model. That haven't happen yet, Φ. You are jumping the gun. Until such verification happened, you haven't really "refute" my reply to ben d at all.
Except that these statistical results are based on the results of observations and measurements of this universe, not that of the Multiverse.Aurélien Barrau's first point was that "predictions can be made in the multiverse: it leads only to statistical results but this is also true for any physical theory within our universe, owing both to fundamental quantum fluctuations and to measurement uncertainties."
Science told science that earths cooling evolution spatial changes by year evolution 2012 by pressure would stop underground particle separation by core heart God O planet. UFO release.I didn’t say that “all the predictions of a theory” have to be tested, for to be considered as science, but there needs to be some predictions to be tested, and either verified or refuted.
Many fields in modern physics only required verifying some of their predictions to be valid, scientifically.
Some theories are built over decades of additional predictions, as in the case with Big Bang theory.
For instances, 3 physicists (Friedmann (1922), Robertson (1924-25), and Lemaitre (1927)) all predicted expanding universe based on modifying Einstein's field equations, and Robertson and Lamaitre predicted that observation of galaxies moving away from each other and from the observer, based on the EM spectrum in the Redshift phase. This was verified first by Hubble in 1929, and since then the Redshift have been used in observations.
Then in 1948, the theory was expanded by group of another 3 physicists - Gamow, Alpher and Herman - who co-wrote papers that include predictions of hot early beginning of the universe (Gamow), Primeval Nucleosynthesis of early matters (Gamow & Alpher), and the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (Alpher & Herman). CMBR wasn't discovered until 1964 by Penzias and Wilson set up antenna/receiver.
Another example is the Standard Model of Particle Physics and it relationship to the fundamental forces. Different physicists made different predictions at different times, the verification of each, were incremental and progressive. And such discoveries/verification can take time, as did with Peter Higgs' prediction of the Higgs Field in 1964, which wasn't discovered until 2012-13 through LHC experiment.
The point being, not all predictions need to be verified all at once; that clearly not often possible. So I don't know why you think everything needs to be verified.
Possible, Φ...possible, and only implied that Multiverse may one day be verified through verification of inflationary model. That haven't happen yet, Φ. You are jumping the gun.
Until such verification happened, you haven't really "refute" my reply to ben d at all.
Science using machine mass taken from earth dust minerals look out into space via our gas heavens that transmit back out of space visions. Earth gases from stone get UFO God earth heated...convert.Aurélien Barrau's first point was that "predictions can be made in the multiverse: it leads only to statistical results but this is also true for any physical theory within our universe, owing both to fundamental quantum fluctuations and to measurement uncertainties."
You replied: "I didn’t say that 'all the predictions of a theory' have to be tested, for to be considered as science, but there needs to be some predictions to be tested, and either verified or refuted. ... The point being, not all predictions need to be verified all at once; that clearly not often possible. So I don't know why you think everything needs to be verified."
Barrau's first point (which you ignored) is that the inflationary multiverse makes predictions, and is thus science since these predictions can be falsified (although admittedly he didn't take time to write what these predictions are in this very brief introduction). ㅤ:)
Notice there are two different issues here. Vilenkin's argument is that it is possible to test the theory by looking for a certain kind of black hole (this is a response to your claim that the multiverse idea isn't testable). The other quotes (by Efstathiou and Linde) show that there is some evidence to corroborate this idea (even though it is still controversial among cosmologists). This responds to your claim that there is absolutely zero evidence to corroborate the multiverse idea. ㅤ:)
Except that these statistical results are based on the results of observations and measurements of this universe, not that of the Multiverse.
This ..."predictions can be made in the multiverse" is just conjecture.