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Questions that evolutionists and billions of years proponents cannot answer but disprove their theories.

Astrophile

Active Member
Thanks. I am wondering also about how the timeline is developed, I mean like 200,000-300,000+ years figuring if these specimens or artifacts belong to the same species. :)
This is actually a sensible question. I can't answer it, not being a biologist, but I think that you ought to follow Dan from Smithville's advice in post 2121.
I would suggest you search for the available literature and read the methods and materials sections to find how they performed their study.

Again, a general Google search combined with Google Scholar can get you some, perhaps all of the relevant papers. If authors are attached to a university, they often have web pages associated with the university listing their publications and even providing free pdf copies. If you are seriously interested that is what it will take.
Do a google search for topics such as 'human evolution', 'human fossils', 'hominid fossils', 'australopithecines' and 'primate species classification', and ask at your local library and bookshops if they have books on these topics.
 

Dan From Smithville

He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Staff member
Premium Member
This is actually a sensible question. I can't answer it, not being a biologist, but I think that you ought to follow Dan from Smithville's advice in post 2121.

Do a google search for topics such as 'human evolution', 'human fossils', 'hominid fossils', 'australopithecines' and 'primate species classification', and ask at your local library and bookshops if they have books on these topics.
Thanks. That's a good idea too. Another outlet where the information is freely accessible. Yet, I get this feeling it will never really be examined by those that need to read and understand it the most.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
This is actually a sensible question. I can't answer it, not being a biologist, but I think that you ought to follow Dan from Smithville's advice in post 2121.

Do a google search for topics such as 'human evolution', 'human fossils', 'hominid fossils', 'australopithecines' and 'primate species classification', and ask at your local library and bookshops if they have books on these topics.
I may do some of what you suggest, but I've been thinking. No matter, evolution or not, there's a big difference between gorillas and humans. At least I think so. So however it happened, especially since as I see it, there are no definitive answers by anyone here, and I have seen no believable reasons presented by scientists, I'm saying it is beyond human reason to say mankind is sooo different from others as if it happened by biologic evolution. If someone says, well evolution did it, I am discarding that answer for a good reason now. No evidence and the idea that men's brains and forms are so different from others, I can no longer accept the idea that evolution made mankind different. But ty for trying to help. I intend to read further on this.
P.S. I have asked at our libraries here and will continue reading. Even in the books I see so far about evolution, they say it happened throughout but really don't give many specifics, similar to Hawking and Mlodinow saying homo sapiens began 200,000 years ago subSahara, then I see some other scientist says ok it was 300,000+ in Morocco thereabouts. With a couple of fossils. I intend to look into this further, thanks again for your most respectful reply. (Sorry, longer than usual post.)
 
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YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Thanks. That's a good idea too. Another outlet where the information is freely accessible. Yet, I get this feeling it will never really be examined by those that need to read and understand it the most.
I appreciate that, but...I can't question Drs. Hawking and Mlodinow now and I am not going to a medium. Hope you understand.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I would suggest you search for the available literature and read the methods and materials sections to find how they performed their study.

Again, a general Google search combined with Google Scholar can get you some, perhaps all of the relevant papers. If authors are attached to a university, they often have web pages associated with the university listing their publications and even providing free pdf copies. If you are seriously interested that is what it will take.

I could tell you how insect taxonomists determine and delineate species and make higher taxonomic assignments. While the concepts are much the same, the techniques for doing this with existing humans and human fossils will differ, so that would not answer specific questions about the methods used for determining the species of these fossils. I believe that @Subduction Zone provided more detailed information above on how it was done.
The problem with insect taxonomy is that they stay insects insofar as I understand. Bats also remain bats. That is, if I'm using the right term. And yes, I have questions about how fossils are dated and then classified as homo sapiens. I have looked at college textbooks on evolution and find little but things like broad descriptions and things like "this was discovered in a cave etc. and is 40,000 years old," etc. Nothing beyond that.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Stephen Hawking and Leonard Mlodinow wrote two books together, The Grand Design (2010), which I have read, and A Briefer History of Time (2005), which I have not. Which of these two are you reading?

Also, why are you reading a book by a cosmologist (Hawking) and a theoretical physicist and mathematician (Mlodinow) to find information about human evolution? There must be books by biologists and palaeontologists that can give you more information on this subject.
I was wondering more specifically what Dr. Hawking really based his conclusions on. At the beginning of the book "Grand Design," it talks about "our" species being around 200,000 years, then I see it has since been corrected due to a few fragments found in Morocco. More about the Unknown Common Ancestor later perhaps. So gotta keep up with the latest, I guess. Furthermore, there is no backup data to booster the dates. When I was in school we were given similar material and no book or instructor said this can change later on due to further discoveries and analysis. No. We were taught to accept what we were taught without question. And at the time as I have said, I didn't believe in God so I figured scientists know better than the Bible. Which I really didn't know much about anyway at the time and I am still learning. You know the song by Paul Simon, Still Crazy After All These Years...I change it to Still Learning After All These Years...yes...
Later...
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Stephen Hawking and Leonard Mlodinow wrote two books together, The Grand Design (2010), which I have read, and A Briefer History of Time (2005), which I have not. Which of these two are you reading?

Also, why are you reading a book by a cosmologist (Hawking) and a theoretical physicist and mathematician (Mlodinow) to find information about human evolution? There must be books by biologists and palaeontologists that can give you more information on this subject.
A lot has been said here about the universe and its origins so I figure I'd look up the words of Hawking etc al . I thought a lot about it. I have also read that Dr. Hawking was very popular so his words and papers were readily publicized.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Not really. the difference is one of quantity, but not quality. For example, both Gorillas and Humans use tools. But obviously a rocket ship is far more advanced than a stick to forage with.
You're making me laugh. Let's not make a deal, how about Let's Get Real. Let's pretend gorillas don't want to write books, keep records and all that stuff so their brains and forms just are not evolving.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Not really. the difference is one of quantity, but not quality. For example, both Gorillas and Humans use tools. But obviously a rocket ship is far more advanced than a stick to forage with.
When I look at gorillas faces, I don't see the possibility of humans. Same with chimpanzees. I suppose no simile of the UCA has been composed.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
You're making me laugh. Let's not make a deal, how about Let's Get Real. Let's pretend gorillas don't want to write books, keep records and all that stuff so their brains and forms just are not evolving.
I've spent more time studying chimps than gorillas... okay if we switch?

I am actually amazed how similar chimps are to us. For example, they have Theory of Mind, a sense of Justice, Empathy... They exhibit behaviors that if a human did it we would certainly call it religious. I find it incredible that IN MY OWN LIFETIME chimps have started using spears. There are SOME tests that chimps actually score higher than humans, such as number memory (chimps are able to remember 9 digits 90% of the time). Although they have a very limited vocabulary, we know now that they do in fact have language.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I've spent more time studying chimps than gorillas... okay if we switch?

I am actually amazed how similar chimps are to us. For example, they have Theory of Mind, a sense of Justice, Empathy... They exhibit behaviors that if a human did it we would certainly call it religious. I find it incredible that IN MY OWN LIFETIME chimps have started using spears. There are SOME tests that chimps actually score higher than humans, such as number memory (chimps are able to remember 9 digits 90% of the time). Although they have a very limited vocabulary, we know now that they do in fact have language.
Ok well maybe a chimp will hold court one day. Truly I believe each creation has its own marvelous qualities.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I've spent more time studying chimps than gorillas... okay if we switch?

I am actually amazed how similar chimps are to us. For example, they have Theory of Mind, a sense of Justice, Empathy... They exhibit behaviors that if a human did it we would certainly call it religious. I find it incredible that IN MY OWN LIFETIME chimps have started using spears. There are SOME tests that chimps actually score higher than humans, such as number memory (chimps are able to remember 9 digits 90% of the time). Although they have a very limited vocabulary, we know now that they do in fact have language.
If you think we look like chimps and gorillas, etc. and therefore humans must have come from some UCA by having evolved, you're not alone. I no longer think that way. Because the differences no longer add up that way to me. And I see no proof in the way of evidence, of course, presented biologically here as well. None. Unless you know of some you can explain. I'm willing to listen.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
If you think we look like chimps and gorillas, etc. and therefore humans must have come from some UCA by having evolved, you're not alone. I no longer think that way. Because the differences no longer add up that way to me. And I see no proof in the way of evidence, of course, presented biologically here as well. None. Unless you know of some you can explain. I'm willing to listen.
In physical anthropology, we studied chimp behavior in detail from difference sources and experiments, and the main distinction between us and them is our much larger brain size. For all practical reality, we humans are large-brained almost-hairless chimps, and an adult chimp has the cognitive ability of roughly a two-year-old human child.
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
In physical anthropology, we studied chimp behavior in detail from difference sources and experiments, and the main distinction between us and them is our much larger brain size. For all practical reality, we humans are large-brained almost-hairless chimps, and an adult chimp has the cognitive ability of roughly a two-year-old human child.
Now consider mankind and our supposed closest cousin the chimpanzee. A careful examination between the two will show that people and chimps are not that similar. There is a multitude of differences. Chimps live in trees. Very few people live in trees. Chimps love to groom each other. Most people would not like someone else picking stuff off of them. Chimps like to eat leaves, termites, bark, resin, and ants, among other things. Most people would not want to eat these but chimps love these. Chimps’ arms are longer than their legs. For people, the opposite is true. People walk upright almost all the time. Chimps mostly don’t. Try walking like a chimp for a while; you will not like it very much. The reason is simple - their body structure is different from ours. Chimps are covered with rather thick hair over their whole bodies with the exception of parts of their face, ears, hands and feet. People have rather sparse hair. Even the hairiest person has hair sparser than the sparsest of chimps. Chimps can eat a lot of bananas and not get bored of them. Most people would not want to eat that many bananas. Chimps’ brains are quite small compared to those of mankind. The ears of chimps are noticeably different from those of mankind.

The hands of a chimp are different from those of people. Chimps’ fingers are longer. The feet of a chimp are very different from those of people. Chimp’s feet are more like hands. The big toe is like a very useful thumb. Their feet are much more flexible and bendable than the feet of mankind. Chimps can hang from trees by their feet or by their hands. They can swing while hanging from branches and even swing between branches. Here is something a chimp could do. A chimp can hang from a branch by one foot and one hand. Try hanging by your feet alone. That would be very hard. A chimp can hold a banana by its foot. If you eat enough bananas you probably would feel sick. Take a good, long look at a picture of a chimp. Look at the face closely. It doesn’t look like any person I know. The features are not like those of a person. The part of the face where the mouth is located looks like a snout. The shape of the head is more wide than tall. The nose is very different. The ears are very different. Also remember that there are at least 150,000,000 (possibly 420,000,000) differences (an inexplicable number) between the DNA code of people and the DNA code of chimps. Chimps have 48 chromosomes, people only 46 and mammals do not change their chromosome count to become a species. It leads to sterile offspring or reduced fertility of offspring.

Chimps do not write books, make airplanes that fly, cook with fire, or shop at malls. Chimps did not invent the Internet, build ships, build telescopes, invent calculus, or stamp coins. They have never built pyramids, superhighways, supermarkets, TVs or bridges over large rivers and bays. They do not make calendars. Chimps are not good chess players. They have never built a rocket. They have not invented games like hockey, baseball, football, tennis, pinochle, poker, or bowling. In fact mankind, of all living things, does all these and many more. Mankind’s intelligence stands completely apart from all animals. People have written millions of books and innumerable newspapers, letters, magazines and notes. The animal kingdom has written none. People have read billions of books. Animals have read none. People have produced hundreds of millions of gas-powered engines. Animals have produced none. Mankind has invented telephones, cell phones, computers, TV and radio. These have been produced by the billions and used many billions of times. Animals have invented and made none. It would take many books to document all the differences between people and animals in the area of intelligence.

Evolutionary science likes to claim that the chimpanzee is our “closest” relative. But the phrase “closest” is both deceptive and indoctrinating. When examined closely, chimps aren’t even close at all to people. The differences are immense. The use of the phrase, “closest”, implies that chimps are “close” to people. However, mankind is very different from all creatures. None are close at all - not in appearance, not in genetics, not in behavior, and not in intelligence. Yet chimps are quite like other apes and monkeys. A chimp is much closer to other apes and monkeys than to people. In fact, chimpanzees are not even relatives of people. People are people and chimps are animals. It could not be more obvious. The fact that evolutionary science has identified the chimp as our closet cousin is proof that evolution is false. If our supposed closest cousin of all the animal kingdom is not even remotely close, as can be clearly proven, then mankind is not related to any animal at all through common biological descent. Once again, evolutionary science has presented evidence that is not evidence. Therefore there must be NO EVIDENCE for evolution. You can bet your everlasting destiny that evolution is false.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
In physical anthropology, we studied chimp behavior in detail from difference sources and experiments, and the main distinction between us and them is our much larger brain size. For all practical reality, we humans are large-brained almost-hairless chimps, and an adult chimp has the cognitive ability of roughly a two-year-old human child.
Look, I don't mean to make fun of that, but -- the main difference? (sorry I'm chuckling again.) That's what you were taught -- the MAIN DIFFERENCE??? Two year olds -- more or less permanently staying at two years cognitively compared to humans?? in chimps -- smiling here -- that is what they teach?
No, I believe we don't resemble fish. Or flowers. Or lions. And yes, I can see why some believe humans belong to the "ape" family because of a certain resemblance to chimps, etc. But again -- and I'm sorry to say this because I know it will lead to more erudite responses perhaps -- t this point not only is there no genetic evidence coming from some UCA (Unknown Common Ancestor) said to branch off to the various entities like chimpanzee, bonobos and humans, etc. -- there is a v=a=s=t difference as I see it, between chimpanzees, gorillas, bonobos and humans. I hope no one will attempt to tell me that humans were inclined to agriculture and that's what makes the difference. I'm stopping for a while, your honor.
 

Dan From Smithville

He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Staff member
Premium Member
The problem with insect taxonomy is that they stay insects insofar as I understand. Bats also remain bats. That is, if I'm using the right term. And yes, I have questions about how fossils are dated and then classified as homo sapiens. I have looked at college textbooks on evolution and find little but things like broad descriptions and things like "this was discovered in a cave etc. and is 40,000 years old," etc. Nothing beyond that.
I believe the significance of this claim of yours has been explained ad nauseum. No one expects that any organism will suddenly jump to a new classification. That's all the further I care to address this I think.

I don't know what to tell you. I've read a lot of books on the subject and even the books geared to a general audience go into detail that would provide you with some ideas and information about the subject.

Google is your friend.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

The problem with insect taxonomy is that they stay insects insofar as I understand. Bats also remain bats. That is, if I'm using the right term. And yes, I have questions about how fossils are dated and then classified as homo sapiens. I have looked at college textbooks on evolution and find little but things like broad descriptions and things like "this was discovered in a cave etc. and is 40,000 years old," etc. Nothing beyond that.
How do you explain four legged land animals becoming whales and dolphins?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
How do you explain four legged land animals becoming whales and dolphins?
If that is the teaching, how do you (or scientists) know this? I know you have said you accept the scientific viewpoint in many senses. I do not explain it except I believe what the Bible says about creation. Fish, humans, plants are separate categories. Quite frankly beyond that, I can't say except what I can understand. I do know that ==yup, gorillas are still remaining gorillas. Chimps are still chimps. And birds are staying as birds. So far as I see. (Or anyone sees.)
 
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