Qur'an and Modern Science

[Don Penguinoini]

I would love it if you convert, I'm not forcing anyone to though.

Oh so your just trying to make everyone "aware" of the science of islam. If i read all these threads, i could be an islamic scholar.... Cuz everyone just does it for the sake of awareness.:sarcastic

 

[gnostic]

“And I created every living thing out of water” Qur’an, 21:30

Hardly the most original idea.

Sumerian-Akkadian-Babylonian creation myth also have a number of variations of the existence of water before all others. The Sumerian Nammu and the Babylonian Tiamat and Apsu are personification of water that began before all others. They are the source of life.

The Egyptian myth say that the sun god (Atum or Re, depending on the sources) came into existence out of the primeval water (Nu), and through masturbation, created Shu (air) and Tefnut (moisture). Also that men and women were created out of tears of the sun-god.

There are Greek, Canaanite and Indian myths and all of them began with water as being the source of life.

“God then rose turning towards the heaven when it was smoke” Qur’an, 41:11

Another not so original idea. You will find similar ones in Sumerian and Egyptian myths.

“Do the disbelievers not see that the heavens and the earth were joined together, then I split them apart?” Qur’an, 21:30

And another.

“God is the one who created the heavens, the earth and what is between them...” Qur’an, 25:59

Do I really need to repeat myself?

I would hardly call any of these, as science. Islam copied it from Judaism, and Judaism in turn has copied from pagan religions of Egypt and Mesopotamia.

 

[S.Z (Muslim)]

Oh so your just trying to make everyone "aware" of the science of islam. If i read all these threads, i could be an islamic scholar.... Cuz everyone just does it for the sake of awareness.:sarcastic

Wow...I am saying that I am not forcing you to convert, all those science facts makes it clear that the Qur'an is the word of God.

I would hardly call any of these, as science. Islam copied it from Judaism,

Produce your proof if you are truthful.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Qur'an isnt the word of god, nope, not the science, the kill all non-believers and gays and lesibians is.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

Wow...I am saying that I am not forcing you to convert, all those science facts makes it clear that the Qur'an is the word of God.

These 'science facts' do no such thing. These 'science facts' are nothing these people wouldn't have known as a matter of course. Then to tell me that they wouldn't have understood such a thing as quantum physics so that's why it isn't mentioned? It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have understood it sunshine, I was under the impression that the you were claiming that the proof of the pudding in this case was in the lack of the ability of the recipients of the recipe to be able to concoct it on their own.
Come up with something they seriously couldn't have known or guessed at and I might be vaguely impressed. Anything else is the grasping of a person who wants to believe. Those of us without a vested interest - or more faith in our ancestors clearly demonstrated abilities in terms of agriculture - are not so easily convinced.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Ill say it again S.Z., its nothing the Vedas hasn't said.

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

Ill say it again S.Z., its nothing the Vedas hasn't said.

Okay , lets for instance analyze the vedas :
"The sky is immovable, the Earth is immovable and these mountains are also immovable" [RIK VEDA 10-173-4}

Now the Quran
You see the mountains you reckoned to be solid going past like clouds. (Qur'an, 27:88)
The crust and the uppermost part of the mantle, with a thickness of about 100 kms., are divided into segments called plates. There are six major plates, and several small ones. According to the theory called plate tectonics, these plates move about on Earth, carrying continents and ocean floor with them. Continental motion has been measured at from 1-5 cm per year. As the plates continue to move about, this will produce a slow change in Earth's geography. Each year, for instance, the Atlantic Ocean becomes slightly wider.29 There is an important point that needs to be stated here: Allah referred to the motion of mountains as drifting in a verse of the Qur'an. Today, modern scientists also use the term "continental drift" for this motion.

Now where had this been mentioned in the vedas???? Even if I agree for sake of argument (not directed at penguino) that Quran's facts have been copied from vedas (i donot believe in this) why was this fact different? A copier merely copies all that is written. How was the author of Quran supposed to know that this fact in Vedas was wrong and to skip it and mention a correct one.
Secondly, if a scientific fact is true and been mentioned before Quran it doesnot mean it has been copied in Quran.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

Okay , lets for instance analyze the vedas :
"The sky is immovable, the Earth is immovable and these mountains are also immovable" [RIK VEDA 10-173-4}

Now the Quran
You see the mountains you reckoned to be solid going past like clouds. (Qur'an, 27:88)
The crust and the uppermost part of the mantle, with a thickness of about 100 kms., are divided into segments called plates. There are six major plates, and several small ones. According to the theory called plate tectonics, these plates move about on Earth, carrying continents and ocean floor with them. Continental motion has been measured at from 1-5 cm per year. As the plates continue to move about, this will produce a slow change in Earth's geography. Each year, for instance, the Atlantic Ocean becomes slightly wider.29 There is an important point that needs to be stated here: Allah referred to the motion of mountains as drifting in a verse of the Qur'an. Today, modern scientists also use the term "continental drift" for this motion.

Now where had this been mentioned in the vedas???? Even if I agree for sake of argument (not directed at penguino) that Quran's facts have been copied from vedas (i donot believe in this) why was this fact different? A copier merely copies all that is written. How was the author of Quran supposed to know that this fact in Vedas was wrong and to skip it and mention a correct one.
Secondly, if a scientific fact is true and been mentioned before Quran it doesnot mean it has been copied in Quran.

And isn't it funny how people keep quoting single verses without context - just like this one - and saying,'Look, it's about continental drift!', when if you put the verse in context with the rest of the chapter it's got nothing to do with continental drift and everything to do with even the most solid and immovable thing you can think of being nothing in the face of the judgement of god.
Context is everything. In this case, what you're suggesting is that you're reading something like,'On the day that the trumpet sounds, everyone will be terrified except the ones that Allah decides wont be. Tectonic plate movement is a phenomena whereby the sections - or 'plates' - that the earth's crust is made up of move an infantesimal amount every year.After millions of years of this movement, those mountains over there will be somewhere else. Did I mention god knows what you've been up to? The good people will never have need to be afraid again, while the evil ones will be thrown on their faces in the fire, because you can't expect anything but to reap what you sow.'
Either you're seeing what you want to see, or the Qur'an was written in the manner of one of those games where one person writes a part of a story and then folds the paper over with just the final word showing for the next person to continue on with. As I sincerely doubt the latter, I'm going to have to run with the former. Either way, it makes my head hurt to watch people take something with a perfectly valid meaning and butcher it into convenient sections to try and push an agenda, instead of taking it and appreciating it for what it is.

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

And isn't it funny how people keep quoting single verses without context - just like this one - and saying,'Look, it's about continental drift!', when if you put the verse in context with the rest of the chapter it's got nothing to do with continental drift and everything to do with even the most solid and immovable thing you can think of being nothing in the face of the judgement of god.
Context is everything. In this case, what you're suggesting is that you're reading something like,'On the day that the trumpet sounds, everyone will be terrified except the ones that Allah decides wont be. Tectonic plate movement is a phenomena whereby the sections - or 'plates' - that the earth's crust is made up of move an infantesimal amount every year.After millions of years of this movement, those mountains over there will be somewhere else. Did I mention god knows what you've been up to? The good people will never have need to be afraid again, while the evil ones will be thrown on their faces in the fire, because you can't expect anything but to reap what you sow.'
Either you're seeing what you want to see, or the Qur'an was written in the manner of one of those games where one person writes a part of a story and then folds the paper over with just the final word showing for the next person to continue on with. As I sincerely doubt the latter, I'm going to have to run with the former. Either way, it makes my head hurt to watch people take something with a perfectly valid meaning and butcher it into convenient sections to try and push an agenda, instead of taking it and appreciating it for what it is.

Apologies my friend. I should have thought better rather than posting without private research. Anyways, i do have a pdf file with many such claims. AM i allowed to post it here so u guyz may download it and see?

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Okay , lets for instance analyze the vedas :
"The sky is immovable, the Earth is immovable and these mountains are also immovable" [RIK VEDA 10-173-4}

Now the Quran
You see the mountains you reckoned to be solid going past like clouds. (Qur'an, 27:88)
The crust and the uppermost part of the mantle, with a thickness of about 100 kms., are divided into segments called plates. There are six major plates, and several small ones. According to the theory called plate tectonics, these plates move about on Earth, carrying continents and ocean floor with them. Continental motion has been measured at from 1-5 cm per year. As the plates continue to move about, this will produce a slow change in Earth's geography. Each year, for instance, the Atlantic Ocean becomes slightly wider.29 There is an important point that needs to be stated here: Allah referred to the motion of mountains as drifting in a verse of the Qur'an. Today, modern scientists also use the term "continental drift" for this motion.

Now where had this been mentioned in the vedas???? Even if I agree for sake of argument (not directed at penguino) that Quran's facts have been copied from vedas (i donot believe in this) why was this fact different? A copier merely copies all that is written. How was the author of Quran supposed to know that this fact in Vedas was wrong and to skip it and mention a correct one.
Secondly, if a scientific fact is true and been mentioned before Quran it doesnot mean it has been copied in Quran.

Rig Veda too. The top quote, ok, i admit, an un-scientific quote jsut like you think that:
Surely He knows well all the thoughts within the breasts.
-- Sura 11:5

We have a brain to think, not a breast.

What aare we made from? The quaran has some ideas.

11:61 It is He Who hath produced you from the earth

17:61 ... Thou didst create from clay

19:67 We created him before out of nothing

23:12 Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay)

30:19 It is He who brings out the living from the dead

35:11 Allah did create you from dust...

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

Rig Veda too. The top quote, ok, i admit, an un-scientific quote jsut like you think that:
Surely He knows well all the thoughts within the breasts.
-- Sura 11:5

We have a brain to think, not a breast.

What aare we made from? The quaran has some ideas.

11:61 It is He Who hath produced you from the earth

17:61 ... Thou didst create from clay

19:67 We created him before out of nothing

23:12 Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay)

30:19 It is He who brings out the living from the dead

35:11 Allah did create you from dust...

First of all the breast part was a figure of speech. Imagine everyday thousands of people use the terms sunrise and sunset. Modern science tells us that sun doesnot rise neither does it set. Infact , it is the rotation of earth that causes this phenomena. Does this mean that i am supposed to criticize all newspapers of the world, for using terms such as sunset and sunrise (that these are unscientific). Imagine a man loving a woman and telling her that I love you from my heart. Am i to criticize him that he is speaking of heart when it is the brain that actually loves?
Even if i agree with you, let me tell you that: the arabic word used here is "sudoor" and it's literary meaning is centre not breast. Will you criticize Quran for a transliteration? Or will you actually try to comprehend the true meaning?

Secondly, it is an accepted fact that human beings are made from several components such as iron, silicon, nitrogen etc. . These have been confirmed to be present in dust, clay etc.

 

[Pariah]

This type of argument is a fallacy classified under ad hoc, or "after the fact". Hindsight is 20/20, and the fact that none of these passages were used to supplement or prove existing theories is proof enough that they did/do not lead to concrete scientific ideas.

They are qualitative by coincidence, not observation of experimentation.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

First of all the breast part was a figure of speech. Imagine everyday thousands of people use the terms sunrise and sunset. Modern science tells us that sun doesnot rise neither does it set. Infact , it is the rotation of earth that causes this phenomena. Does this mean that i am supposed to criticize all newspapers of the world, for using terms such as sunset and sunrise (that these are unscientific). Imagine a man loving a woman and telling her that I love you from my heart. Am i to criticize him that he is speaking of heart when it is the brain that actually loves?
Even if i agree with you, let me tell you that: the arabic word used here is "sudoor" and it's literary meaning is centre not breast. Will you criticize Quran for a transliteration? Or will you actually try to comprehend the true meaning?

Secondly, it is an accepted fact that human beings are made from several components such as iron, silicon, nitrogen etc. . These have been confirmed to be present in dust, clay etc.

The other translation on the site was that our thoughts are in the heart/breast.

Not the brain actually, literally in the heart. The fact that i put up the what we are made up of stuff is to say how many contradictions there are in the Qua'ran.

Humans are not made of iron, are they? Sillicon?!:areyoucra If anyone could elaborate ?(prefferably Pariah)

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

The other translation on the site was that our thoughts are in the heart/breast.

Not the brain actually, literally in the heart. The fact that i put up the what we are made up of stuff is to say how many contradictions there are in the Qua'ran.

Humans are not made of iron, are they? Sillicon?!:areyoucra If anyone could elaborate ?(prefferably Pariah)

Hello, if anyone would care to take bioogy these are the very elements present in our body!!!!
Literally, sudoor means center not breast. Look it up.
And i see u have neglected or chosen not to answer the "figure of speech" part.

 

[gnostic]

Produce your proof if you are truthful.

The thing is that the verses or lines you have quoted is not science, but myth.

If you have REALLY studying science before, then a line here or there, doesn't make it science. You are only forcing meaning into passages of what is pure gibberish in scientific world. These lines can be interpreted in many different way. You are taking context OUT of the passages and PUTTING YOUR OWN context into them to make it sounds like it sounding scientific.