qur'an burning in Florida

[autonomous1one1]

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Originally Posted by Islamic_point_of_view
Sorry – I disagree here – I don’t think anyone can judge if you have hate in your heart or not. So the notion of having laws for hate vs non hate crime is hard to digest.

I agree here. "Hate crime laws" are a farce. Crime is crime, no matter what the motivation........

Since many in the US support these laws, AxisMundi, just for clarification is your view an informed one? That is, have you studied the 'hate laws' in the US, some of the variations in the individual states, and how the laws are implemented in the courts, to make your 'farce' determination?

According to the Wikipedia, the US top dog explained it thus:

Penalty-enhancement hate crime laws are traditionally justified on the grounds that, in Chief Justice Rehnquist's words, "this conduct is thought to inflict greater individual and societal harm.... bias-motivated crimes are more likely to provoke retaliatory crimes, inflict distinct emotional harms on their victims, and incite community unrest."[16]

The Chief Justice of the United States is the head of the United States federal court system (the judicial branch of the federal government of the United States) and the chief judge of the Supreme Court of the United States.

Rehnquist was Chief Justice for 19 years.
Hate crime laws in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

 

[Kathryn]

Again consider this as property – that is owned by a specific group of people following a specific religion – no difference that Vatican – or walling wall.

Apparently what we have here is a failure to appreciate the freedoms we have in this country - the freedoms of religion, expression, free speech, association.

Guess what - people of ANY religion are allowed into Vatican City by the way, and can even attend Mass at the Vatican if they like. Yes - anyone, from any religion.

And anyone of any religion is welcome at St Lukes United Methodist Church in my town. You can even take communion if you like - we leave that up to you and God to figure out between yourselves.

And you can burn a bible in the middle of Main Street if you want. You may get beat up, but you won't get arrested - and you won't get beheaded or stoned to death either.

 

[Meow Mix]

And you can burn a bible in the middle of Main Street if you want. You may get beat up, but you won't get arrested - and you won't get beheaded or stoned to death either.

I'd actually hesitate to say it's even very likely that you'd get beat up. You might get yelled at and receive weird looks.

 

[Kathryn]

I'd actually hesitate to say it's even very likely that you'd get beat up. You might get yelled at and receive weird looks.

True - in most areas.

But I live in East Texas. :run:

 

[AxisMundi]

Since many in the US support these laws, AxisMundi, just for clarification is your view an informed one? That is, have you studied the 'hate laws' in the US, some of the variations in the individual states, and how the laws are implemented in the courts, to make your 'farce' determination?

According to the Wikipedia, the US top dog explained it thus: Rehnquist was Chief Justice for 19 years.
Hate crime laws in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Yes, I have indeed studied prevelant laws and reasoning by proponents of hate crime legislation.

The result is my comment. It is a farce.

They also serve only to further marginalize minorities and other Protected Classes.

We are suppsoed to be a nation of Equality. Hate Crime laws are simply not an example of equality. Indeed quite the opposite.

 

[MW0082]

Apparently what we have here is a failure to appreciate the freedoms we have in this country - the freedoms of religion, expression, free speech, association.

Guess what - people of ANY religion are allowed into Vatican City by the way, and can even attend Mass at the Vatican if they like. Yes - anyone, from any religion.

And anyone of any religion is welcome at St Lukes United Methodist Church in my town. You can even take communion if you like - we leave that up to you and God to figure out between yourselves.

And you can burn a bible in the middle of Main Street if you want. You may get beat up, but you won't get arrested - and you won't get beheaded or stoned to death either.

Yes but it is completely disrespectful and down right low to burn a book that others see as sacred and holy. Not to mention the dangers you're putting the rest of the country in...... There is a difference between YOUR freedom and OUR health.

 

[autonomous1one1]

Yes, I have indeed studied prevelant laws and reasoning by proponents of hate crime legislation.

The result is my comment. It is a farce.

They also serve only to further marginalize minorities and other Protected Classes.

We are suppsoed to be a nation of Equality. Hate Crime laws are simply not an example of equality. Indeed quite the opposite.

Thank you for responding, AxisM. Glad to see you have looked into the matter. Your perspective is very much appreciated.

 

[Kathryn]

Yes but it is completely disrespectful and down right low to burn a book that others see as sacred and holy. Not to mention the dangers you're putting the rest of the country in...... There is a difference between YOUR freedom and OUR health.

Disrespectful - yes. So what? You know what this is like? It's like a rebellious teenager who tells his parents that if they put him on restriction he's going to sneak out and rob a convenience store - and then he blames the parents when he's arrested for armed robbery - "If they hadn't put me on restriction, I wouldn't be standing here with this gun in my hand holding up this convenience store! IT'S THEIR FAULT!"

I am not going to live my life in such fear of radical fundamentalists that I undermine the integrity of the concept of freedom.

 

[Meow Mix]

Disrespectful - yes. So what? You know what this is like? It's like a rebellious teenager who tells his parents that if they put him on restriction he's going to sneak out and rob a convenience store - and then he blames the parents when he's arrested for armed robbery - "If they hadn't put me on restriction, I wouldn't be standing here with this gun in my hand holding up this convenience store! IT'S THEIR FAULT!"

I am not going to live my life in such fear of radical fundamentalists that I undermine the integrity of the concept of freedom.

FRUBAL'D

 

[Luminous]

If anyone should be burning Qur'ans its the Buddhists in Afghanistan.

 

[tmThEMaN]

I largely agree with you about the source of the problem. Surely the solution is development and education in those countries that are having trouble with uncivilized behaviour.

Something that puzzles me, however, is that muslim-majority societies seem to be uniformly uncivilized ones, especially given muslim claims of superior morality.

Respect must be earned, it cannot be legislated. Those who demand respect, instead of earning it, are unworthy of respect.

Just leave those third world countries alone and let them overthrow their dictators that are supported by the west.
It is the continuous occupation of these countries by the west whether directly or indirectly that has lead them to this state.

If you think Islam is the reason these countries are poor and in a bad shape, then you need a history class to learn what Muslim scientists provided to the world of science when Europe was sinking in the dark ages. It is only when the west started invading the world and stealing every country they land in that the biggest civilizations of the Middle East, India, China and others started to go down.
They planted dictators and supported them to keep sucking the blood out of their resources.

You think the problem with the west is religious ?!!!! it is what the west brought on us that is pushing the masses to hate and despise.

It is the occupation of Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and more. It is the unconditional support of the terrorist state of Israel which is a disgrace to every human in the 21st just like oppression of Jews was a disgrace to every human in the 19th and 20th century.

What is happening in Palestine and the western support that is the cause of hate and willingness to fight.

It is NOT religious ... it is political and social.

Islam does not promote violence, but it does not promote weakness ... you will fight for your so-called freedom and they will fight for their "actual" freedom.

OPEN YOUR EYES.

Science in medieval Islam
Science in medieval Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[MW0082]

Disrespectful - yes. So what? You know what this is like? It's like a rebellious teenager who tells his parents that if they put him on restriction he's going to sneak out and rob a convenience store - and then he blames the parents when he's arrested for armed robbery - "If they hadn't put me on restriction, I wouldn't be standing here with this gun in my hand holding up this convenience store! IT'S THEIR FAULT!"

I am not going to live my life in such fear of radical fundamentalists that I undermine the integrity of the concept of freedom.

Freedom? What freedom does this country offer you? You think you're truly free....?

Plus your metaphor falls very flat. You're comparing a rebellious teenager to a countries safety.... Maybe you're not interested in the safety of those who will be hurt from someone elses actions. If someone's actions are going to put others in harm they do not hold the RIGHT nor have the FREEDOM to do such acts....

I am not going to live my life wondering why people must be hurt, because others feel the need to act aggresively towards other cultures and religions for they feel theirs is better or of a higher power or the truth. All of it is hogwash....

p.s. America is responsible for 9/11 not anyone else....