Qur'an Describes Altitude Sickness

[Kerr]

About altitude sickness. According to wikipedia:

It commonly occurs above 2,400 metres (8,000 feet)

I took the liberty to check Greece and Italy for their highest mountains. They had a few above that height. The reason I checked those two countries is because ancient Greece and the Roman empire has had a huge impact on the world, and both are older then 1400 years. If they knew about altitude sickness, its likely it was known throughout the world.

 

[FearGod]

The fact that I don't know the names of everyone who failed to summit Everest doesn't change the fact that it was there. Also, Everest is not the only mountain in the world high enough to enduce altitude sickness, just the highest.

So, let's get on the same page here: are you claiming that there were no mountains high enough to induce altitude sickness when the Qur'an was written?

You know that the place was in the arabian peninsula,and they were on the dark ages or was called the age of ignorance.

THE ARABIAN PENINSULA:
The morals of the Arabs were corrupted and they were obsessed with drinking and gambling. Their cruelty and so-called zeal reached the point where they buried baby girls alive. Raiding was widespread as well as highway robbery against trading caravans. The position of women in society was so low that they could be inherited like property or animals. Children were murdered because their parents feared the poverty that would come from raising them. The Arabs were fond of war and did not hesitate to shed blood. A minor incident could stir up a war lasting for many years in which thousands of people would lose their lives.

Reference : 1.The Age of Ignorance

 

[Storm]

You know that the place was in the arabian peninsula,and they were on the dark ages or was called the age of ignorance.

THE ARABIAN PENINSULA:
The morals of the Arabs were corrupted and they were obsessed with drinking and gambling. Their cruelty and so-called zeal reached the point where they buried baby girls alive. Raiding was widespread as well as highway robbery against trading caravans. The position of women in society was so low that they could be inherited like property or animals. Children were murdered because their parents feared the poverty that would come from raising them. The Arabs were fond of war and did not hesitate to shed blood. A minor incident could stir up a war lasting for many years in which thousands of people would lose their lives.

Reference : 1.The Age of Ignorance

Well, that sounds nice and unbiased. Certianly disproves the existence of Mount Everest and Kilimanjaro.

 

[crocusj]

Alsalam aleikum...and hello everyone..
I'm honored to participate in such respectful forum..


The Quran which was revealed fourteen centuries ago to Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) states: “Whomsoever Allah desires to guide, He expands his chest to Islam; whomsoever He desires to lead astray, He makes his chest narrow, tight, as if he were climbing up to the sky.” (6:125) Thus, this verse displays a miraculous similitude when presenting a scientific fact in a very eloquent and accurate style. Points of the miracles of this verse are:

1- When people first heard of the verse of man’s climbing to sky (space) , they considered it as a sort of imagination, and that Quran regards the ascension to space in a metaphorical manner. Actually the verse is a prophecy that came true centuries after it was first revealed.
2- The similitude is very accurate, as climbing to high distances in the air causes chest tightness and the feeling of suffocation. The more the ascension increases, the more tightness reaches so critical and difficult stage that respiration is not possible any more. That’s why oxygen cylinders are taken when ascending up the sky, as in space ships !


Qais Ibrahim from Baghdad...

There is, of course, the obvious point that my chest is not tight yet I am not guided by Allah. So, wrong on two counts then. I also notice that you added the bit about respiration being impossible in space but Mohammed did not, so either he was not talking about space after all or he (therefore Allah) didn't know, which is it?

 

[ibrahimqais90]

I'm sorry, did you seriously just claim that they didn't have mountains when the Qur'an was mentioned? That Everest is less than 1400 years old?

Also, note that I didn't say "living in" mountains, I said climbing them.

do you know how hard it is back then to transfer news and other info...specially from Everest...it take years to receive news from far lands

 

[Storm]

do you know how hard it is back then to transfer news and other info...specially from Everest...it take years to receive news from far lands

Do you know how long Everest has been around? More than long enough for news to reach the Arabian penninsula.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There is, of course, the obvious point that my chest is not tight yet I am not guided by Allah. So, wrong on two counts then.

Excellent point.

Regardless of whether the verse does or doesn't describe altitude sickness, it does say that non-believers will get tight chests, which doesn't happen.

 

[YmirGF]

Excellent point.

Regardless of whether the verse does or doesn't describe altitude sickness, it does say that non-believers will get tight chests, which doesn't happen.

But, Pengie, how would a non-Muslim know their chest is not tighter than a Muslim's?

 

[beenie]

The Qur'an is not a science book. Only Muslims are going to see this text as holy, and the rest won't.

If one is hoping for conversion to Islam by posting these types of threads, it will fail.

 

[YmirGF]

The Qur'an is not a science book. Only Muslims are going to see this text as holy, and the rest won't.

If one is hoping for conversion to Islam by posting these types of threads, it will fail.

But why is it, do you think, that so many Muslims are driven to make these feeble arguments?
Have they never heard the expression, "singing to the choir"? It's like they just don't get out much.

 

[beenie]

But why is it, do you think, that so many Muslims are driven to make these feeble arguments?
Have they never heard the expression, "singing to the choir"? It's like they just don't get out much.

Desperation, methinks. It's awfully hard to put a positive light on a religion when all of its society has gone to hell in a hand-basket. It's much easier to deflect and concentrate on elementary claims to scientific "miracles" of a holy book. Quite frankly, it makes me tired.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

I think it's more that this is part of how Islam tends to promote itself internally; the sort of "why does _? because __" stuff that's day in and day out in learning Islam. It assumes that because it finds credible the way it presents itself to itself, others should find this presentation credible.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But, Pengie, how would a non-Muslim know their chest is not tighter than a Muslim's?

There are lab tests for that sort of thing. I've taken some myself.

Just thinking: while I am an atheist with asthma and that might fit into the whole "tight chest" thing, it would be strange if God's will could be thwarted with salbutamol.

 

[crocusj]

The Qur'an is not a science book. Only Muslims are going to see this text as holy, and the rest won't.

If one is hoping for conversion to Islam by posting these types of threads, it will fail.

And so it should. Surely it is the message that will convert if anything will. Indeed, surely it should be the message and only the message that is of any importance at all. Attempting to shoehorn science into holy words dilutes any message by trying to lend it credance by association thereby allowing reduction by reasonable questioning of that association. Dismissing a philosophy through scource is not the same as negating a philosophy through ideas and I am always amazed at how many that profess faith seem to require it to be bolstered by science. So what if I say it is built on sand - faith is like that - but mixed with the lime of belief it becomes concrete for those that need to walk that path (I should write this stuff down...) and it is the message not the science that will be the attraction.

 

[crocusj]

do you know how hard it is back then to transfer news and other info...specially from Everest...it take years to receive news from far lands

But you said it was not about Eversest, you said it was about space. You emphasised that it was about space. Space travel would make it a "prophesy" while altitude would make it debatable. Only you said that it would be impossible to breath eventually not just tighten therefore to defend your position I would like you to answer:

I also notice that you added the bit about respiration being impossible in space but Mohammed did not, so either he was not talking about space after all or he (therefore Allah) didn't know, which is it?"

 

[FearGod]

The Qur'an is not a science book. Only Muslims are going to see this text as holy, and the rest won't.

If one is hoping for conversion to Islam by posting these types of threads, it will fail.

i do agree with you.

Actually the verse is saying that god himself don't want the disbelievers to be guided to Islam by tightening their chest and then their refusal for the islam way of life will let them feeling more comfortable whereas believers will accept and feel comfortable to live the islamic way of life.

as far as i'm concerned we should only as muslims accept science in the holy book to strengthen our existing faith and not to convince the others about the reliability and the sincerity of the holy book.

If god himself won't guide some,then would a scientific verse do.

[youtube]Popx0iSCybs[/youtube]
Quran Miracle - Man in high altitudes - YouTube

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Alsalam aleikum...and hello everyone..
I'm honored to participate in such respectful forum..


The Quran which was revealed fourteen centuries ago to Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) states: “Whomsoever Allah desires to guide, He expands his chest to Islam; whomsoever He desires to lead astray, He makes his chest narrow, tight, as if he were climbing up to the sky.” (6:125) Thus, this verse displays a miraculous similitude when presenting a scientific fact in a very eloquent and accurate style. Points of the miracles of this verse are:

1- When people first heard of the verse of man’s climbing to sky (space) , they considered it as a sort of imagination, and that Quran regards the ascension to space in a metaphorical manner. Actually the verse is a prophecy that came true centuries after it was first revealed.
2- The similitude is very accurate, as climbing to high distances in the air causes chest tightness and the feeling of suffocation. The more the ascension increases, the more tightness reaches so critical and difficult stage that respiration is not possible any more. That’s why oxygen cylinders are taken when ascending up the sky, as in space ships !

Source

Qais Ibrahim from Baghdad...

Greetings,

I believe, as I am not an expert in Islam and have many basic misunderstandings of Islam, there are many individuals with basic misunderstandings of what science is. The reality of altitude sickness is not a scientific fact, it is a natural phenomena. The taking note of altitude sickness is not a scientific fact, it is an observation.

When someone thinks of a possible explanation for the observation, in such a way that it can be tested and falsified. That is the very first application of science. Altitude sickness is caused by two things, a lower atmospheric pressure, which allows the pulmonary cavities to restrict, and a lower concentration of oxygen in that atmosphere. If this is true, I can have a test subject at sea level placed in a sealed room and vary, one at a time, both the pressure and the oxygen level.

Now, there certainly were mountains in the middle east high enough to cause altitude sickness.

CAUCASUS MOUNTAINS
Located between the Black and Caspian Seas, these mountains dominate the landscape of Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia (all part of southeastern Europe,) where the Middle East begins. Many of the volcanic peaks here exceed 15,000 ft., with the highest point being Mt. Elbrus at 18,481 ft. (5,633m).

ELBURZ MOUNTAINS (or Alborz)
Extending for almost 620 miles along Iran's northern border with the Caspian Sea, these jagged mountains average over 9,000 ft, with the highest point being Mt. Damavand, a dormant volcano, at 18,602 ft.(5,670m)

HADRAMAWT
This low mountain range (and region) of Yemen averages about 3,500 ft. (1,067m), with the highest peak estimated at 8,000 ft., (2,440m).

HINDU KUSH
These dramatic mountains form a natural border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, with many snow-capped peaks reaching over 22,000 ft. The highest point is Tirich Mir at 25,282 ft. (7,706m).

TAURUS MOUNTAINS
This rugged chain extends across southern Turkey to its borders with Iraq and Iran. The highest point (Mt. Ararat) is located in the Eastern Taurus range. This extinct volcano is 16,583 ft. (5,137m) high. It is felt by biblical historians that Noah's Ark landed here.

ZAGROS MOUNTAINS
The many ranges of the Zagros extend along southern and western Iran and into northern Iraq. Many peaks exceed 9,000 ft., with the highest point being Zard Kuh at 14,921 ft. (4,548m).

Likewise, the Arab and other Islam people where hardly unsophisticated. They had many educated and well traveled scholars among them.

I would also wish to point out that the Dark Ages, or Age of Ignorance, is a European Phenomena. In fact, it was during the dark ages that Islam conquered vast portions of the crumbling roman empire and spread through out the middle east. In fact, it could be argued that the rise of Islam could not have spread as it did, without the vacuum of power that resulted from the collapse of the roman empire. Much as the christian faith could not have spread as it did if Constantin had not began killing anyone that refused to convert to Christianity.

 

[waqasahmed]

The reply by FunctionalAtheist is a good explanation of what is being talked about in the quranic verse.Climbing uphill etc used to be a practice in arab as there were hilly terrains to be encountered during journeys and this specific phenomena was well understood that time.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

People had trouble breathing in high altitudes long before airplanes, much less space shuttles. Most people can't make it up Everest without an oxygen tank or 10. I see nothing miraculous about the Qur'an mentioning it.

If I cangive you frubals, I will.

do you know how hard it is back then to transfer news and other info...specially from Everest...it take years to receive news from far lands

Turkey and Iran (and other regional countries have plenty of peaks above 8000 feet. Scaling them is the feat of a day or a couple of days for a healthy young man or woman.
The equipment and time were not lacking. Hundreds of ancient Incan mummies (predating Islam) have been found at twice the height required in South America.
Climbers in Turkey talk with caravaners (sp?) and the information is in the Tigris river region in a couple of weeks.

Sorry. No miracle. :no: