Quran has the best guidance about war and peace.

[Link]

Salam

The statement: What Quran says about war and peace, is as good as it gets. There maybe other books out there in China or else where, about war and peace philosophies, that say the best thing possible as well. So the claim is not that only Quran says these things, but that what it says about war and peace is the best.

Please keep it on topic of this. Not if Quran is true or God exists or what is says about other things. Just this topic.

I will start with a balanced notion in Surah Shura and being adding to it:

وَالَّذِينَ إِذَا أَصَابَهُمُ الْبَغْيُ هُمْ يَنْتَصِرُونَ | those who, when afflicted by oppression, defend themselves. | Ash-Shura : 39

The word is defend, but it also carries the meaning of seeking victory over their oppressors. In fact, the latter is probably the pure meaning and defend is not a good word here, but I left the translation as is.

وَجَزَاءُ سَيِّئَةٍ سَيِّئَةٌ مِثْلُهَا ۖ فَمَنْ عَفَا وَأَصْلَحَ فَأَجْرُهُ عَلَى اللَّهِ ۚ إِنَّهُ لَا يُحِبُّ الظَّالِمِينَ | The requital of evil is an evil like it, so whoever excuses and conciliates, his reward lies with Allah. Indeed, He does not like the wrongdoers. | Ash-Shura : 40

Here we see evil is to be repelled by an evil like it. Yet says who pardons and forgives, their reward is with God.

I made the case Ainseenqaaf is about Hassan (a), and why Hussain (a) fought while Hassan (a) fought but then did a treaty in other threads.

Here we see the proper way is to seek victory over your oppressors, but a circumstance can occur when you cannot seek it, and hence forgive your enemies and pardon, and seek to reform them.

Imam Ali (a) says something on the lines in Nahjul balagha, when offered an army from Abu Sufyan, "blessed is he who rises with wings (of support) or otherwise, remains down so that people are saved from afflictions (of war) and peace remains". I forget exact words but it was to justify why he did not want to fight despite the oppression and lost lives of some believers.

وَلَمَنِ انْتَصَرَ بَعْدَ ظُلْمِهِ فَأُولَٰئِكَ مَا عَلَيْهِمْ مِنْ سَبِيلٍ | As for those who retaliate after being wronged, there is no ground for action against them. | Ash-Shura : 41

إِنَّمَا السَّبِيلُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ يَظْلِمُونَ النَّاسَ وَيَبْغُونَ فِي الْأَرْضِ بِغَيْرِ الْحَقِّ ۚ أُولَٰئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ | The ground for action is only against those who oppress the people and commit tyranny in the land in violation of justice. For such there will be a painful punishment. | Ash-Shura : 42

This is to say people who seek victory over oppressors (retaliate should be translated as "seek victory"), there is no right of fighting them.

42:42 is awfully translated, but I will say it has two components.

(1) Oppressors
(2) Those who rebel in the earth without truth

So the second people you can fight is those who rebel against a government without truth and without right. This is allowed, but not if they have the right and truth.

These verses go back to "By the name of God The Benevolent, the Compassionate (intensely), Hameem is Ainseenqaaf", meaning there is no difference between way of Hassan (a) and way of Hussain (a) except circumstances, they both are the name of God and same light and Hussain (a) is Hassan (a).

This also means, there is no real difference of Pre-Madina Mohammad (s) and Post-Madina Mohammad (s), it's different circumstances. He didn't change policies or nature.

أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى الَّذِينَ قِيلَ لَهُمْ كُفُّوا أَيْدِيَكُمْ وَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتُوا الزَّكَاةَ فَلَمَّا كُتِبَ عَلَيْهِمُ الْقِتَالُ إِذَا فَرِيقٌ مِنْهُمْ يَخْشَوْنَ النَّاسَ كَخَشْيَةِ اللَّهِ أَوْ أَشَدَّ خَشْيَةً ۚ وَقَالُوا رَبَّنَا لِمَ كَتَبْتَ عَلَيْنَا الْقِتَالَ لَوْلَا أَخَّرْتَنَا إِلَىٰ أَجَلٍ قَرِيبٍ ۗ قُلْ مَتَاعُ الدُّنْيَا قَلِيلٌ وَالْآخِرَةُ خَيْرٌ لِمَنِ اتَّقَىٰ وَلَا تُظْلَمُونَ فَتِيلًا | Have you not regarded those who were told, ‘Keep your hands off [from warfare], and maintain the prayer and give the zakat’? But when fighting was prescribed for them, behold, a part of them feared the people as if fearing Allah, or were even more afraid, and they said, ‘Our Lord! Why did You prescribe fighting for us? Why did You not respite us for a short time?!’ Say, ‘The enjoyments of this world are trifle and the Hereafter is better for the Godwary, and you will not be wronged so much as a single date-thread. | An-Nisaa : 77

This shows some people from Mecca were good on terms when Mohammad (s) told them not to fight, but were against fighting because of fear of their opponents.

In fact, before Quran clear Surahs or commands were given to fight, Mohammad (s) did orders, and Quran confirmed his actions later. This was to show that Sunnah and Quran go together, but even during time of Mohammad (s), some people said "why not a Surah" to believers, hence, the truth was not always spread but rather believers were accused of not having "a Surah" to back what Mohammad (s) was telling them in the Sunnah.

So we see even during Mohammad (s) time, there was people arguing with his commands, by "why not a (a clear) Surah with fighting mentioned", kind of response. Thus a trait of hypocrisy was to escape Sunnah and commands of Rasool (s) with Quran early stage.

This dividing between words of Nabi (a) and Quran remains till this day.

But this might appear off-topic, but I will be providing proof also from the lives of the living Qurans - the Ahlulbayt (a) that is I will connect this with the lives of Imams (a) and how they strove against oppressors, and most of them not by fighting nor commanding their followers to fight.

And so we see fighting is not the only option, but if you can overtake oppressors and tyrants you should, and we will see different ways of resisting oppressor, even totally accepting their rule and become part of their government as did Yusuf (a) is allowed.

That is we have to assess the circumstances and what is best for stability and peace of people.

 

[Link]

@ChristineM you might or might not be interested in this thread. Its going to be a deeper analysis of all of what Quran says about this and contextualize it all with respect to each other.

@Tiberius I am not going to pay to read this but it may or may not interest you as well.

 

[Link]

There is this verse also:

وَإِنْ جَنَحُوا لِلسَّلْمِ فَاجْنَحْ لَهَا وَتَوَكَّلْ عَلَى اللَّهِ ۚ إِنَّهُ هُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ | If they incline toward peace, then you [too] incline toward it, and put your trust in Allah. Indeed He is the All-hearing, the All-knowing. | Al-Anfaal : 61

Notice the word here is exactly the word:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا ادْخُلُوا فِي السِّلْمِ كَافَّةً وَلَا تَتَّبِعُوا خُطُوَاتِ الشَّيْطَانِ ۚ إِنَّهُ لَكُمْ عَدُوٌّ مُبِينٌ | O you who have faith! Enter into submission, all together, and do not follow in Satan’s steps; he is indeed your manifest enemy. | Al-Baqara : 208

Those two words are exactly the same, but @KWED obviously knows everything about Islam and must know how Islam does not mean peace as well.

In fact Islam concerns only matters of safety and fear. Either with regards to this world or next, and in fact, all of it can be set to establish peace, and even "Salihat" which is translated as "good deeds" is in contrast of "causing havoc in the earth", which is the opposite to peace. So we see all good deeds is about setting aright the earth and yes we have to fix our souls as well, but this is done collectively.

I will be showing more evidence of the role of Rasool (a) as a "Giver of security" and one of God's Names is Al-Momin, which means "The Granter of security/safety".

 

[ChristineM]

@ChristineM you might or might not be interested in this thread. Its going to be a deeper analysis of all of what Quran says about this and contextualize it all with respect to each other.

Thanks but no, im not really interested, the Qur'an as other holy books can be interpreted in many different ways. Although your interpretation may be nobel, Islamic state believed their interpretation was correct. Those who fly plains into the twin towers believed their interpretation was correct.

 

[Link]

Thanks but no, im not really interested, the Qur'an as other holy books can be interpreted in many different ways. Although your interpretation may be nobel, Islamic state believed their interpretation was correct. Those who fly plains into the twin towers believed their interpretation was correct.

Follow the money trail for those interpretations.

This has a lot to do with colonialism which is linked to Freemasons and Jesuits and their plans. Wahabism and ISIS is linked to Western groups money in the region in the past and today. I will make a different thread about the conspiracy theory in Quran and hadiths, but this is not due to Quran, its despite Quran clear ways of addressing these things.

And Bani-Ummaya were polytheists pretending to be Muslim.

 

[ChristineM]

Follow the money trail for those interpretations.

This has a lot to do with colonialism which is linked to Freemasons and Jesuits and their plans. Wahabism and ISIS is linked to Western groups money in the region in the past and today. I will make a different thread about the conspiracy theory in Quran and hadiths, but this is not due to Quran, its despite Quran clear ways of addressing these things.

And Bani-Ummaya were polytheists pretending to be Muslim.

They still interpreted the Qur'an in a way that made their heinous actions valid.

Just like those who massacred the journalists at Charlie Hebdo. In a country that is not Muslim so is not bound by muslim mores and prides itself of freedom of speech.

 

[Link]

They still interpreted the Qur'an in a way that made their heinous actions valid.

Just like those who massacred the journalists at Charlie Hebdo. In a country that is not Muslim so is not bound by muslim mores and prides itself of freedom of speech.

If you ignore verses, isolate a few of them, and interpret it in a way that Quran contradicts itself, picking and choosing, believing some verses while ignoring others, how is that valid?

 

[ChristineM]

If you ignore verses, isolate a few of them, and interpret it in a way that Quran contradicts itself, picking and choosing, believing some verses while ignoring others, how is that valid?

I kind of think it's the other way round, not ignoring verses is where the problems lie.

Admittedly I've not read the Qur'an all the way through but i can assume that because it's based on the tanakh/old testament it will be similar in its message

 

[Link]

I kind of think it's the other way round, not ignoring verses is where the problems lie.

Admittedly I've not read the Qur'an all the way through but i can assume that because it's based on the tanakh/old testament it will be similar in its message

So okay, this thread might help you understand what Quran actually says about it.

 

[ChristineM]

So okay, this thread might help you understand what Quran actually says about it.

Of i had the time or inclination to read the Qur'an i would read it myself and form my own judgement of its contents

 

[Link]

Of i had the time or inclination to read the Qur'an i would read it myself and form my own judgement of its contents

That is up to you. Maybe tone it down about holy books teaching x y z or whatever you claim if you do not know.

 

[ChristineM]

That is up to you. Maybe tone it down about holy books teaching x y z or whatever you claim if you do not know.

I know what the Bible teaches, i know what the Tanakh teaches. I some of the the Qur'an.

I know that many atrocities are committed in their name and that is the point of my comments about their teachings.

 

[Link]

I know what the Bible teaches, i know what the Tanakh teaches. I some of the the Qur'an.

I know that many atrocities are committed in their name and that is the point of my comments about their teachings.

I cannot comment on Tanakh, I have not studied it enough. Just read it a few times.

 

[Jimmy]

Salam

The statement: What Quran says about war and peace, is as good as it gets. There maybe other books out there in China or else where, about war and peace philosophies, that say the best thing possible as well. So the claim is not that only Quran says these things, but that what it says about war and peace is the best.

Please keep it on topic of this. Not if Quran is true or God exists or what is says about other things. Just this topic.

I will start with a balanced notion in Surah Shura and being adding to it:

وَالَّذِينَ إِذَا أَصَابَهُمُ الْبَغْيُ هُمْ يَنْتَصِرُونَ | those who, when afflicted by oppression, defend themselves. | Ash-Shura : 39

The word is defend, but it also carries the meaning of seeking victory over their oppressors. In fact, the latter is probably the pure meaning and defend is not a good word here, but I left the translation as is.

وَجَزَاءُ سَيِّئَةٍ سَيِّئَةٌ مِثْلُهَا ۖ فَمَنْ عَفَا وَأَصْلَحَ فَأَجْرُهُ عَلَى اللَّهِ ۚ إِنَّهُ لَا يُحِبُّ الظَّالِمِينَ | The requital of evil is an evil like it, so whoever excuses and conciliates, his reward lies with Allah. Indeed, He does not like the wrongdoers. | Ash-Shura : 40

Here we see evil is to be repelled by an evil like it. Yet says who pardons and forgives, their reward is with God.

I made the case Ainseenqaaf is about Hassan (a), and why Hussain (a) fought while Hassan (a) fought but then did a treaty in other threads.

Here we see the proper way is to seek victory over your oppressors, but a circumstance can occur when you cannot seek it, and hence forgive your enemies and pardon, and seek to reform them.

Imam Ali (a) says something on the lines in Nahjul balagha, when offered an army from Abu Sufyan, "blessed is he who rises with wings (of support) or otherwise, remains down so that people are saved from afflictions (of war) and peace remains". I forget exact words but it was to justify why he did not want to fight despite the oppression and lost lives of some believers.

وَلَمَنِ انْتَصَرَ بَعْدَ ظُلْمِهِ فَأُولَٰئِكَ مَا عَلَيْهِمْ مِنْ سَبِيلٍ | As for those who retaliate after being wronged, there is no ground for action against them. | Ash-Shura : 41

إِنَّمَا السَّبِيلُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ يَظْلِمُونَ النَّاسَ وَيَبْغُونَ فِي الْأَرْضِ بِغَيْرِ الْحَقِّ ۚ أُولَٰئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ | The ground for action is only against those who oppress the people and commit tyranny in the land in violation of justice. For such there will be a painful punishment. | Ash-Shura : 42

This is to say people who seek victory over oppressors (retaliate should be translated as "seek victory"), there is no right of fighting them.

42:42 is awfully translated, but I will say it has two components.

(1) Oppressors
(2) Those who rebel in the earth without truth

So the second people you can fight is those who rebel against a government without truth and without right. This is allowed, but not if they have the right and truth.

These verses go back to "By the name of God The Benevolent, the Compassionate (intensely), Hameem is Ainseenqaaf", meaning there is no difference between way of Hassan (a) and way of Hussain (a) except circumstances, they both are the name of God and same light and Hussain (a) is Hassan (a).

This also means, there is no real difference of Pre-Madina Mohammad (s) and Post-Madina Mohammad (s), it's different circumstances. He didn't change policies or nature.

أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى الَّذِينَ قِيلَ لَهُمْ كُفُّوا أَيْدِيَكُمْ وَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتُوا الزَّكَاةَ فَلَمَّا كُتِبَ عَلَيْهِمُ الْقِتَالُ إِذَا فَرِيقٌ مِنْهُمْ يَخْشَوْنَ النَّاسَ كَخَشْيَةِ اللَّهِ أَوْ أَشَدَّ خَشْيَةً ۚ وَقَالُوا رَبَّنَا لِمَ كَتَبْتَ عَلَيْنَا الْقِتَالَ لَوْلَا أَخَّرْتَنَا إِلَىٰ أَجَلٍ قَرِيبٍ ۗ قُلْ مَتَاعُ الدُّنْيَا قَلِيلٌ وَالْآخِرَةُ خَيْرٌ لِمَنِ اتَّقَىٰ وَلَا تُظْلَمُونَ فَتِيلًا | Have you not regarded those who were told, ‘Keep your hands off [from warfare], and maintain the prayer and give the zakat’? But when fighting was prescribed for them, behold, a part of them feared the people as if fearing Allah, or were even more afraid, and they said, ‘Our Lord! Why did You prescribe fighting for us? Why did You not respite us for a short time?!’ Say, ‘The enjoyments of this world are trifle and the Hereafter is better for the Godwary, and you will not be wronged so much as a single date-thread. | An-Nisaa : 77

This shows some people from Mecca were good on terms when Mohammad (s) told them not to fight, but were against fighting because of fear of their opponents.

In fact, before Quran clear Surahs or commands were given to fight, Mohammad (s) did orders, and Quran confirmed his actions later. This was to show that Sunnah and Quran go together, but even during time of Mohammad (s), some people said "why not a Surah" to believers, hence, the truth was not always spread but rather believers were accused of not having "a Surah" to back what Mohammad (s) was telling them in the Sunnah.

So we see even during Mohammad (s) time, there was people arguing with his commands, by "why not a (a clear) Surah with fighting mentioned", kind of response. Thus a trait of hypocrisy was to escape Sunnah and commands of Rasool (s) with Quran early stage.

This dividing between words of Nabi (a) and Quran remains till this day.

But this might appear off-topic, but I will be providing proof also from the lives of the living Qurans - the Ahlulbayt (a) that is I will connect this with the lives of Imams (a) and how they strove against oppressors, and most of them not by fighting nor commanding their followers to fight.

And so we see fighting is not the only option, but if you can overtake oppressors and tyrants you should, and we will see different ways of resisting oppressor, even totally accepting their rule and become part of their government as did Yusuf (a) is allowed.

That is we have to assess the circumstances and what is best for stability and peace of people.

war is foolish. The earth and its inhabitants are here briefly.

 

[Link]

war is foolish. The earth and its inhabitants are here briefly.

This is true, but if fools are running the show, the wise have to maneuver in all that and sometimes have to go to war with the warmongers.

I agree with fools and foolish:

وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لَا تُفْسِدُوا فِي الْأَرْضِ قَالُوا إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ مُصْلِحُونَ | When they are told, ‘Do not cause havoc in the earth,’ they say, ‘We are only reformers/setters aright/peace makers!’ | Al-Baqara : 11
أَلَا إِنَّهُمْ هُمُ الْمُفْسِدُونَ وَلَٰكِنْ لَا يَشْعُرُونَ | Behold! They are themselves the agents of havoc, but they do not perceive. | Al-Baqara : 12
وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ آمِنُوا كَمَا آمَنَ النَّاسُ قَالُوا أَنُؤْمِنُ كَمَا آمَنَ السُّفَهَاءُ ۗ أَلَا إِنَّهُمْ هُمُ السُّفَهَاءُ وَلَٰكِنْ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ | And when they are told, ‘Believe like the people who have believed,’ they say, ‘Shall we believe like the fools who have believed?’ Behold! They are themselves the fools, but they do not know. | Al-Baqara : 13


Because these fools have to be resisted and balanced, Quran says:

فَهَزَمُوهُمْ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ وَقَتَلَ دَاوُودُ جَالُوتَ وَآتَاهُ اللَّهُ الْمُلْكَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَعَلَّمَهُ مِمَّا يَشَاءُ ۗ وَلَوْلَا دَفْعُ اللَّهِ النَّاسَ بَعْضَهُمْ بِبَعْضٍ لَفَسَدَتِ الْأَرْضُ وَلَٰكِنَّ اللَّهَ ذُو فَضْلٍ عَلَى الْعَالَمِينَ | Thus they routed them with Allah’s will, and David killed Goliath, and Allah gave him kingdom and wisdom and taught him whatever He liked. Were it not for Allah’s repelling the people, some of them by some, the earth would surely have been corrupted/in a state of havoc; but Allah is gracious to the worlds | Al-Baqara : 251

الَّذِينَ أُخْرِجُوا مِنْ دِيَارِهِمْ بِغَيْرِ حَقٍّ إِلَّا أَنْ يَقُولُوا رَبُّنَا اللَّهُ ۗ وَلَوْلَا دَفْعُ اللَّهِ النَّاسَ بَعْضَهُمْ بِبَعْضٍ لَهُدِّمَتْ صَوَامِعُ وَبِيَعٌ وَصَلَوَاتٌ وَمَسَاجِدُ يُذْكَرُ فِيهَا اسْمُ اللَّهِ كَثِيرًا ۗ وَلَيَنْصُرَنَّ اللَّهُ مَنْ يَنْصُرُهُ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَقَوِيٌّ عَزِيزٌ | —those who were expelled from their homes unjustly, only because they said, ‘Allah is our Lord.’ Were it not for Allah’s repelling the people, some of them by some; ruin would have befallen the monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques in which Allah’s Name is much invoked. Allah will surely help those who help Him. Indeed Allah is all-strong, all-mighty. | Al-Hajj : 40

الَّذِينَ إِنْ مَكَّنَّاهُمْ فِي الْأَرْضِ أَقَامُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتَوُا الزَّكَاةَ وَأَمَرُوا بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَنَهَوْا عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ ۗ وَلِلَّهِ عَاقِبَةُ الْأُمُورِ | Those who, if We granted them power in the land, will maintain the prayer, give the zakat, bid what is right and forbid what is wrong. And with Allah rests the outcome of all matters. | Al-Hajj : 41

وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِيَاءُ بَعْضٍ ۚ إِلَّا تَفْعَلُوهُ تَكُنْ فِتْنَةٌ فِي الْأَرْضِ وَفَسَادٌ كَبِيرٌ | As for the faithless, some of them are awlya of others (of them). Unless you do it, there will be strife in the land and great havoc. | Al-Anfaal : 73

 

[Link]

Salam

This another component. God appoints people like Talut, Dawood, Sulaiman (peace be upon them), to balance the havoc makers on earth and balance things out.

لَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا رُسُلَنَا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ وَأَنْزَلْنَا مَعَهُمُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْمِيزَانَ لِيَقُومَ النَّاسُ بِالْقِسْطِ ۖ وَأَنْزَلْنَا الْحَدِيدَ فِيهِ بَأْسٌ شَدِيدٌ وَمَنَافِعُ لِلنَّاسِ وَلِيَعْلَمَ اللَّهُ مَنْ يَنْصُرُهُ وَرُسُلَهُ بِالْغَيْبِ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ قَوِيٌّ عَزِيزٌ | Certainly We sent Our apostles with manifest proofs, and We sent down with them the Book and the Balance, so that mankind may maintain justice; and We sent down iron, in which there is great might and uses for mankind, and so that Allah may know those who help Him and His apostles by the Unseen/Hidden. Indeed Allah is all-strong, all-mighty. | Al-Hadid : 25

The word use for maintain justice is rise by justice. That is there is a component of rising for it.

وَإِذَا جَاءَهُمْ أَمْرٌ مِنَ الْأَمْنِ أَوِ الْخَوْفِ أَذَاعُوا بِهِ ۖ وَلَوْ رَدُّوهُ إِلَى الرَّسُولِ وَإِلَىٰ أُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْهُمْ لَعَلِمَهُ الَّذِينَ يَسْتَنْبِطُونَهُ مِنْهُمْ ۗ وَلَوْلَا فَضْلُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَتُهُ لَاتَّبَعْتُمُ الشَّيْطَانَ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا | When a matter of safety or fear comes to them, they immediately broadcast it; but had they referred it to the Apostle as well to those vested with authority among them, those of them who investigate would have ascertained it. And were it not for Allah’s grace upon you and His mercy, you would have surely followed Satan, [all] except a few. | An-Nisaa : 83

We can see that Ulil-Amr have to be referred to it's matters of safety and fear, and this an explanation, to what disputes are about. Its not that you have to go the Messenger if you dispute if you want to go the movies or watch the hockey game or something trivial, the religion is about matters of safety and fear whether in this world or next, it collectively is about granting peace and safety in both, to give the soul peace and security, hence we see God calls himself "Al-Momin":

هُوَ اللَّهُ الَّذِي لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ الْمَلِكُ الْقُدُّوسُ السَّلَامُ الْمُؤْمِنُ الْمُهَيْمِنُ الْعَزِيزُ الْجَبَّارُ الْمُتَكَبِّرُ ۚ سُبْحَانَ اللَّهِ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ | He is Allah—there is no god except Him—the Sovereign/King, the All-holy, the All-Peace, the Securer, the All-conserver, the All-mighty, the All-compeller, and the All-magnanimous. Clear is Allah of any partners that they may ascribe [to Him]! | Al-Hashr : 23


The order of "The peace" that God is, is important with him being "The securer/Granter of security", and so Imam Jaffar (a) says in the Noble Lantern of the Path:

The meaning of the taslim (greeting of peace) at the end of the prayer means security, that is, anyone who carries out the command of Allah and the sunnah of His Prophet out of humility to Him and showing fear, has security from the tribulations of this world and freedom from the punishment of the next world. Al-Salam (peace) is one of the titles of Allah, which He entrusted to His creation so that they would make use of it in their behaviour, trusts and contracts; in confirming their companies and assemblies; and for the soundness of their social relations.

If you want to establish this salam in its proper place, and to fulfill its meaning, then fear Allah; and make your faith, your heart, and your intellect sound. Do not sully them by the injustice of acts of rebellion. Let your guardians be safe from you; do not weary, or bore or alienate them through your bad behaviour towards them, nor with your friend, nor with your enemy. If those who are close to someone are not safe from him, then those furthest from him are safest. Anyone who does not establish salam on the occasions when it should be established has no peace and no submission: he is a liar in his salam, even if he uses it as a form of greeting among people.

Know that man's existence lies between trials and afflictions in this world. Allah may test him with blessings, to see his thankfulness, or with hardship, to see if he will show steadfastness and nobility by obeying Him, or disgrace in rebelling against Him, although there is no way to reach His good pleasure and mercy except through His grace. The only means to obey Him is when he grants success: none can intercede with Him except with His permission and mercy.

And the Imams are also this, we see Quran talks about the witnesses leaders and security granters:

وَقُلِ اعْمَلُوا فَسَيَرَى اللَّهُ عَمَلَكُمْ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ ۖ وَسَتُرَدُّونَ إِلَىٰ عَالِمِ الْغَيْبِ وَالشَّهَادَةِ فَيُنَبِّئُكُمْ بِمَا كُنْتُمْ تَعْمَلُونَ | And say, ‘Go on working: Allah will see your conduct, and His Apostle and the Securers/Givers of Safety and you will be returned to the Knower of the sensible and the Unseen, and He will inform you concerning what you used to do. | At-Tawba : 105

فَكَيْفَ إِذَا جِئْنَا مِنْ كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ بِشَهِيدٍ وَجِئْنَا بِكَ عَلَىٰ هَٰؤُلَاءِ شَهِيدًا | So how shall it be, when We bring a witness from every nation and We bring you as a witness upon these (people of yours)? | An-Nisaa : 41

وَيَوْمَ نَبْعَثُ مِنْ كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ شَهِيدًا ثُمَّ لَا يُؤْذَنُ لِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَلَا هُمْ يُسْتَعْتَبُونَ | The day We shall raise a witness from every nation, the faithless will not be permitted [to speak], nor will they be asked to propitiate [Allah]. | An-Nahl : 84

وَيَوْمَ نَبْعَثُ فِي كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْهِمْ مِنْ أَنْفُسِهِمْ ۖ وَجِئْنَا بِكَ شَهِيدًا عَلَىٰ هَٰؤُلَاءِ ۚ وَنَزَّلْنَا عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ تِبْيَانًا لِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً وَبُشْرَىٰ لِلْمُسْلِمِينَ | The day We raise in every nation a witness against them from among themselves, We shall bring you as a witness against these (people of yours) and We have sent down the Book to you as a clarification of all things and as guidance, mercy and good news for the Muslims/Submitters. | An-Nahl : 89

يَوْمَ نَدْعُو كُلَّ أُنَاسٍ بِإِمَامِهِمْ ۖ فَمَنْ أُوتِيَ كِتَابَهُ بِيَمِينِهِ فَأُولَٰئِكَ يَقْرَءُونَ كِتَابَهُمْ وَلَا يُظْلَمُونَ فَتِيلًا | The day We shall summon every group of people along with their Imam/leader, then whoever is given his book in his right hand—they will read it, and they will not be wronged so much as a single date-thread. | Al-Israa : 71

إِنَّا نَحْنُ نُحْيِي الْمَوْتَىٰ وَنَكْتُبُ مَا قَدَّمُوا وَآثَارَهُمْ ۚ وَكُلَّ شَيْءٍ أَحْصَيْنَاهُ فِي إِمَامٍ مُبِينٍ | Indeed it is We who revive the dead and write what they have sent ahead and their effects [which they left behind], and We have encompassed everything in a manifest/illuminating Imam/Leader. | Yaseen : 12

إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَهُمْ رَاكِعُونَ | Your Authority is only Allah, His Apostle, and those who granted security/safety, who maintain the prayer and give the zakat (even in the circumstances called for it) while bowing down. | Al-Maaida : 55


So we can see Islam and Peace are interchangeable. Since submitting to God's guidance is specifically do with either peace in this world or next. Salam has been shown to be implied by Islam and Also Selm which is about peace in contrast to war. In fact, Quran uses both words, and we saw the connection of Al-Momin title with As-Salam preceding it and then I did not mention this but "الْمُهَيْمِنُ" has to do with protecting role or conserving the peace on earth and in the souls of humanity.

So we see a link with Islam with both type of peace, peace in the land, and peace in the soul. We also see the Ulil-Amr are to be referred in matters of safety or fear, and they can be said to be a peace from God to believers as well and also grant safety and protection and safeguard the believers spiritually but also in social and political affair, guide and protect.

Thus Imam is said to be "Ismatal momineen" (the protection of the believers) in Sahifa Sajjadiya.

I will emphasize more on this, and the need of righteous leadership and rallying behind Imams to take proper stance of peace in the land as opposed to the havoc makers and the warmongers and blood-shedders.

 

[Link]

Salam

We see in the verse of "The Peace" title of God preceding "Securer" (al-Momin), is preceded by "The Holy" so we see purity is linked to peace in the soul, but also sanctity of life is important in this regard. It starts with "There is no God but Him, the King..."

In Surah Taha, we see "Exalted be God, the True King" and we read in the last Surah "The King of the humans".

This concept of True King is important also with the kings he appoints, and their Authority and Mastership is his authority. Ulil-Amr says "Possessors of THE Authority", Al, is comprehensive or its specific, the former means they have all Authority and the latter would mean there is but only one Authority. Either way, God is the True Authority and a lot of the Quran has emphasized that the Amr (authority) belongs to him.

In the same respect, the Mulk is also synonymous with Al-Amr, because we see family of Ibrahim (a) is said to have been given a great MULK to make way for and contextualize and emphasize to believers, "and obey the Messenger and those who Possess the Authority from you", with emphasis we too be given a similar grace and favor from God.

We see in Quran, there is only twelve Captains that succeed Musa (a) in Bani-Israel, and so what happens after the last one?

We see Elyas (a) one of the Twelve Captains is the light/holy king in this sense who succeeds Isa (a) / Jesus (a), but according to hadiths, the leadership and successor in another sense of the word, after Isa (a) is Shamoon/Simon (a).

Keep this in mind, that the friends of God that follow the chosen Guide of their time, when Elyas (a) was hidden, are not infallible nor chosen by God nor are guaranteed to be succeeded by leaders who believers will be guided by.

Thus we see per, Quran, because they FORGOT a portion of what they were reminded of, they fought each other. What causes them to fight was disunity, and the disunity in leadership, but the leadership is not a guaranteed guidance. Yet, if it is not, why did Jesus (a) appoint Simon (a)?

It's because leadership is still needed or else the believers without that, would be overwhelmed and no rally point nor guidance in social and political affairs would take place. Yet over emphasize on them as opposed to the Twelve Captains, and single out Isa (a) as most important, and then you get trinity ,divisions, and fighting amongst each other.

Thus we see Quran emphasizes to unite on the rope of God and truth, and be very vigilant to remain in harmony.

I will relate this with Iran and the revolution and WF (Welayatal Faqih) now, but Imam Mahdi (A) while spiritual guide is not the public leader and not leading in public. If he is, its hidden and with specific orders to specific people and with his light.

Simon (a) was extension of Isa (a), and so WF should be same. However, Simon (a) was selected by God and Isa (a) while not infallible and prechosen, we can say his leadership is a guarantee. The Four safirs chosen by Imam Mahdi (a) are also a guarantee that they are not deviated in important principles of guidance.

What is not a guarantee is now because we have to choose who succeeds this role of leadership. But at the same time, it has to be friends of God who as far as we know have more knowledge and more capability. Talut (a) was argued aside from being chosen by God and that God gives his authority to who he pleases, that he was superior in knowledge and body. This means we should search out who is most capable of leading in our circumstances. Imam Ali (a) also said "he has most right to this authority/matter/government, who is most knowledgeable and capable regarding it."

We are awaiting the Mahdi (a) but he is not in public. The oppression Iran faces is no doubt similar to the oppression that believers faced during Mohammad (s) lifetime. Israel conflict with Palestinians was in fact to create a conflict to put Muslims in their place. Its not that the people loved the Jews that they planned and stole the land from Palestinians and a way to apologize for Hitler actions or apathy to what happened to Jews. Its part of plan to cause conflict and keep Muslims subjugated, but specifically, its to further oppress Shiites in the region and keep the truth of Shia Islam from manifesting.

But as we see, its sort of backfiring. At least, in some regards.

Mohammad (s) said after explaining the Imams (a) to Salman Farsi (a) and quoting a verse in this respect in Surah Qasas, "By Allah (I swear), let Iblis and his armies come".

People see Hezbollah and equate them with ISIS and other horrible groups. This evil and part of the havoc creating and evil in the land.

May God curse people in the fire who deem the noble Hezbollah as terrorists and do not repent and do not take their side in their conflict against oppressors. Amen.

 

[Link]

Salam

هُوَ اللَّهُ الَّذِي لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ الْمَلِكُ الْقُدُّوسُ السَّلَامُ الْمُؤْمِنُ الْمُهَيْمِنُ الْعَزِيزُ الْجَبَّارُ الْمُتَكَبِّرُ ۚ سُبْحَانَ اللَّهِ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ | He is Allah—there is no god except Him—the Sovereign/King, the All-holy, the All-Peace, the Securer, the All-conserver, the All-mighty, the All-compeller, and the All-magnanimous. Clear is Allah of any partners that they may ascribe [to Him]! | Al-Hashr : 23


Another way to translate it:

He is God, there is no God but Him, the Holy King, The Peace, The Securer, the Preserver/Guardian, The Honorable/Mighty, The Compeller, the Magnified, Glorified is God from what they associate.

So we see God the Holy King. Why would he take Authority, it's because he is the Peace, and such seeks to secure it in the land, and preserves his creation and is mighty, the next title is is definitely linked to Islam with the title, "The Compeller". @Bird123 Always is saying God is not forcing people to views, would not do that, lets them decide, but we see wisdom here of God being the True king, because he needs to secure his creation from harming each other, and creating chaos on earth that cannot be repaired. And such he compels them to obey him and take him as the holy King and true King, as a means of acquiring inner peace, but also religion wise, collectively, wants them as a community, coming together, to secure the land from havoc of evil humans and Jinn. This is the only way he can preserve human honor and dignity and hence does not want us all doing decisions and learning from it. He wants peace on earth, not to learn by causing havoc, that we did things wrong.

All security and peace, is due to his forces repelling evil forces.


وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لَا تُفْسِدُوا فِي الْأَرْضِ قَالُوا إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ مُصْلِحُونَ | When they are told, ‘Do not cause havoc in the earth,’ they say, ‘We are only reformers/setters aright/peace makers!’ | Al-Baqara : 11
أَلَا إِنَّهُمْ هُمُ الْمُفْسِدُونَ وَلَٰكِنْ لَا يَشْعُرُونَ | Behold! They are themselves the agents of havoc, but they do not perceive. | Al-Baqara : 12
وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ آمِنُوا كَمَا آمَنَ النَّاسُ قَالُوا أَنُؤْمِنُ كَمَا آمَنَ السُّفَهَاءُ ۗ أَلَا إِنَّهُمْ هُمُ السُّفَهَاءُ وَلَٰكِنْ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ | And when they are told, ‘Believe like the people who have believed,’ they say, ‘Shall we believe like the fools who have believed?’ Behold! They are themselves the fools, but they do not know. | Al-Baqara : 13

فَهَزَمُوهُمْ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ وَقَتَلَ دَاوُودُ جَالُوتَ وَآتَاهُ اللَّهُ الْمُلْكَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَعَلَّمَهُ مِمَّا يَشَاءُ ۗ وَلَوْلَا دَفْعُ اللَّهِ النَّاسَ بَعْضَهُمْ بِبَعْضٍ لَفَسَدَتِ الْأَرْضُ وَلَٰكِنَّ اللَّهَ ذُو فَضْلٍ عَلَى الْعَالَمِينَ | Thus they routed them with Allah’s will, and David killed Goliath, and Allah gave him kingdom and wisdom and taught him whatever He liked. Were it not for Allah’s repelling the people, some of them by some, the earth would surely have been corrupted/in a state of havoc; but Allah is gracious to the worlds | Al-Baqara : 251

الَّذِينَ أُخْرِجُوا مِنْ دِيَارِهِمْ بِغَيْرِ حَقٍّ إِلَّا أَنْ يَقُولُوا رَبُّنَا اللَّهُ ۗ وَلَوْلَا دَفْعُ اللَّهِ النَّاسَ بَعْضَهُمْ بِبَعْضٍ لَهُدِّمَتْ صَوَامِعُ وَبِيَعٌ وَصَلَوَاتٌ وَمَسَاجِدُ يُذْكَرُ فِيهَا اسْمُ اللَّهِ كَثِيرًا ۗ وَلَيَنْصُرَنَّ اللَّهُ مَنْ يَنْصُرُهُ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَقَوِيٌّ عَزِيزٌ | —those who were expelled from their homes unjustly, only because they said, ‘Allah is our Lord.’ Were it not for Allah’s repelling the people, some of them by some; ruin would have befallen the monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques in which Allah’s Name is much remembered. Allah will surely help those who help Him. Indeed Allah is all-strong, all-mighty. | Al-Hajj : 40

الَّذِينَ إِنْ مَكَّنَّاهُمْ فِي الْأَرْضِ أَقَامُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتَوُا الزَّكَاةَ وَأَمَرُوا بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَنَهَوْا عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ ۗ وَلِلَّهِ عَاقِبَةُ الْأُمُورِ | Those who, if We granted them power in the land, will maintain the prayer, give the zakat, bid what is right and forbid what is wrong. And with Allah rests the outcome of all matters. | Al-Hajj : 41

وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِيَاءُ بَعْضٍ ۚ إِلَّا تَفْعَلُوهُ تَكُنْ فِتْنَةٌ فِي الْأَرْضِ وَفَسَادٌ كَبِيرٌ | As for the faithless, some of them are awlya of others (of them). Unless you do it, there will be strife in the land and great havoc. | Al-Anfaal : 73


لَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا رُسُلَنَا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ وَأَنْزَلْنَا مَعَهُمُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْمِيزَانَ لِيَقُومَ النَّاسُ بِالْقِسْطِ ۖ وَأَنْزَلْنَا الْحَدِيدَ فِيهِ بَأْسٌ شَدِيدٌ وَمَنَافِعُ لِلنَّاسِ وَلِيَعْلَمَ اللَّهُ مَنْ يَنْصُرُهُ وَرُسُلَهُ بِالْغَيْبِ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ قَوِيٌّ عَزِيزٌ | Certainly We sent Our apostles with manifest proofs, and We sent down with them the Book and the Balance, so that mankind may maintain justice; and We sent down iron, in which there is great might and uses for mankind, and so that Allah may know those who help Him and His apostles by the Unseen/Hidden. Indeed Allah is all-strong, all-mighty. | Al-Hadid : 25


@Bird123 this is one of many reasons but probably the most important that God appoints leaders among us and sends revelations and Messengers and revealed books/scripture. Without it, justice is not possible and also chaos and havoc would reach a level that is not tolerable on earth.


He is God, there is no God but Him, the Holy King, The Peace, The Securer, the Preserver, The Honorable/Mighty, The Compeller, the Magnified, Glorified is God from what they associate. (The verse from Quran)

Is better than God leaves us to decide just to learn a lesson, no intervention, will let us pick worse kings on earth and worse leaders instead of taking this role as holy king.

What is the lesson? That we are horrible at recognizing the truthful leaders from liars? And follow havoc makers and blood-shedders on earth rather then leaders of peace and guides to enlightenment? That we cannot recognize good friends of God from the evil deceivers?

 

[icehorse]

So okay, this thread might help you understand what Quran actually says about it.

So @Link, what are your thoughts about unfalsifiable claims made during a discussion? Are they ok? Should they be avoided? Other opinion?

 

[Notthedarkweb]

So there are three premises to your argument:

1. P1: That there is a universally valid teaching about conflict.
2. P2: This valid teaching is that B.
3. P3: The Quran contains this valid teaching
4. C: Therefore the Quran contains the universally valid teaching about conflict.

But what if...I don't accept premise 1? What if I say that there isn't one universally valid normative position towards war? What if I don't accept premise 2, more importantly? What if, qua Nietzsche in his infamous "The Greek State", war is...good? Universally? This is a very unsettling premise that inverts our ordinary understanding of war, but it isn't self-evidently wrong in Nietzsche's conception of the question. What if the heroic virtue produced due to the condition of war ought to be normative? I think you ought to illustrate to the others that P1 and P2 are proper premises that ought to obtain their support.