Qu'ran on Belief in Islam: Punishment for Instilled Disbelief?

[CogentPhilosopher]

In Islam one of the prominent doctrines is the idea of Hell, a place of eternal punishment for those who do not believe in the claims of Islam. This is the punishment allegedly prescribed to the nonbeliever by a supposedly just deity. However according to Islam, it is not the unbelievers fault that they do not believe but in fact Allah's. In several of the verses in the Qu'ran it clearly states that Allah wills unbelievers to not believe in him and then punishes them for not believing in him. How is it that anyone can see this as just? What justification do believers propose for such actions?

Thank you for your time.



Qu'ran verses used to support my claim:

These verses all use the Sahih International Translation.

Qu'ran 2:6-7
Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

Qu'ran 2:17-2:18 [In reference to non-believers]
Their example is that of one who kindled a fire, but when it illuminated what was around him, Allah took away their light and left them in darkness [so] they could not see. Deaf, dumb and blind - so they will not return [to the right path].

Qu'ran 6:39
But those who deny Our verses are deaf and dumb within darknesses. Whomever Allah wills - He leaves astray; and whomever He wills - He puts him on a straight path.

Qu'ran 6:107 [In reference to pagans]
But if Allah had willed, they would not have associated [with false gods]. And We have not appointed you over them as a guardian, nor are you a manager over them.

Qu'ran 6:125
So whoever Allah wants to guide - He expands his breast to [contain] Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide - He makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does Allah place defilement upon those who do not believe.

Qu'ran 7:100-101
Has it not become clear to those who inherited the earth after its [previous] people that if We willed, We could afflict them for their sins? But We seal over their hearts so they do not hear. hose cities - We relate to you, [O Muhammad], some of their news. And certainly did their messengers come to them with clear proofs, but they were not to believe in that which they had denied before. Thus does Allah seal over the hearts of the disbelievers.

Qu'ran 7:146
I will turn away from My signs those who are arrogant upon the earth without right; and if they should see every sign, they will not believe in it. And if they see the way of consciousness, they will not adopt it as a way; but if they see the way of error, they will adopt it as a way. That is because they have denied Our signs and they were heedless of them.

Qu'ran 7:175-178
And recite to them, [O Muhammad], the news of him to whom we gave [knowledge of] Our signs, but he detached himself from them; so Satan pursued him, and he became of the deviators. And if We had willed, we could have elevated him thereby, but he adhered [instead] to the earth and followed his own desire. So his example is like that of the dog: if you chase him, he pants, or if you leave him, he [still] pants. That is the example of the people who denied Our signs. So relate the stories that perhaps they will give thought. How evil an example [is that of] the people who denied Our signs and used to wrong themselves. Whoever Allah guides - he is the [rightly] guided; and whoever He sends astray - it is those who are the losers.

Qu'ran 10:99-100
And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, [O Muhammad], would you compel the people in order that they become believers? And it is not for a soul to believe except by permission of Allah, and He will place defilement upon those who will not use reason.

Qu'ran 13:31
And if there was any qur'an by which the mountains would be removed or the earth would be broken apart or the dead would be made to speak, [it would be this Qur'an], but to Allah belongs the affair entirely. Then have those who believed not accepted that had Allah willed, He would have guided the people, all of them? And those who disbelieve do not cease to be struck, for what they have done, by calamity - or it will descend near their home - until there comes the promise of Allah . Indeed, Allah does not fail in [His] promise.

Qu'ran 16:106-108 [In reference to apostates]
Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah, and for them is a great punishment; That is because they preferred the worldly life over the Hereafter and that Allah does not guide the disbelieving people. Those are the ones over whose hearts and hearing and vision Allah has sealed, and it is those who are the heedless.

Qu'ran 17:19
And whoever Allah guides - he is the [rightly] guided; and whoever He sends astray - you will never find for them protectors besides Him, and We will gather them on the Day of Resurrection [fallen] on their faces - blind, dumb and deaf. Their refuge is Hell; every time it subsides We increase them in blazing fire.

 

[icehorse]

Excellent question!

On a related note, it appears to me that in the Quran it is frequently claimed that "Allah is merciful", but throughout the book he appears to be anything but merciful. Instead he appears to be spiteful, vindictive, sociopathic, and endlessly cruel.

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

In Islam one of the prominent doctrines is the idea of Hell, a place of eternal punishment for those who do not believe in the claims of Islam. This is the punishment allegedly prescribed to the nonbeliever by a supposedly just deity. However according to Islam, it is not the unbelievers fault that they do not believe but in fact Allah's. In several of the verses in the Qu'ran it clearly states that Allah wills unbelievers to not believe in him and then punishes them for not believing in him. How is it that anyone can see this as just? What justification do believers propose for such actions?

Thank you for your time.



Qu'ran verses used to support my claim:

These verses all use the Sahih International Translation.

Qu'ran 2:6-7
Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

Qu'ran 2:17-2:18 [In reference to non-believers]
Their example is that of one who kindled a fire, but when it illuminated what was around him, Allah took away their light and left them in darkness [so] they could not see. Deaf, dumb and blind - so they will not return [to the right path].

Qu'ran 6:39
But those who deny Our verses are deaf and dumb within darknesses. Whomever Allah wills - He leaves astray; and whomever He wills - He puts him on a straight path.

Qu'ran 6:107 [In reference to pagans]
But if Allah had willed, they would not have associated [with false gods]. And We have not appointed you over them as a guardian, nor are you a manager over them.

Qu'ran 6:125
So whoever Allah wants to guide - He expands his breast to [contain] Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide - He makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does Allah place defilement upon those who do not believe.

Qu'ran 7:100-101
Has it not become clear to those who inherited the earth after its [previous] people that if We willed, We could afflict them for their sins? But We seal over their hearts so they do not hear. hose cities - We relate to you, [O Muhammad], some of their news. And certainly did their messengers come to them with clear proofs, but they were not to believe in that which they had denied before. Thus does Allah seal over the hearts of the disbelievers.

Qu'ran 7:146
I will turn away from My signs those who are arrogant upon the earth without right; and if they should see every sign, they will not believe in it. And if they see the way of consciousness, they will not adopt it as a way; but if they see the way of error, they will adopt it as a way. That is because they have denied Our signs and they were heedless of them.

Qu'ran 7:175-178
And recite to them, [O Muhammad], the news of him to whom we gave [knowledge of] Our signs, but he detached himself from them; so Satan pursued him, and he became of the deviators. And if We had willed, we could have elevated him thereby, but he adhered [instead] to the earth and followed his own desire. So his example is like that of the dog: if you chase him, he pants, or if you leave him, he [still] pants. That is the example of the people who denied Our signs. So relate the stories that perhaps they will give thought. How evil an example [is that of] the people who denied Our signs and used to wrong themselves. Whoever Allah guides - he is the [rightly] guided; and whoever He sends astray - it is those who are the losers.

Qu'ran 10:99-100
And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, [O Muhammad], would you compel the people in order that they become believers? And it is not for a soul to believe except by permission of Allah, and He will place defilement upon those who will not use reason.

Qu'ran 13:31
And if there was any qur'an by which the mountains would be removed or the earth would be broken apart or the dead would be made to speak, [it would be this Qur'an], but to Allah belongs the affair entirely. Then have those who believed not accepted that had Allah willed, He would have guided the people, all of them? And those who disbelieve do not cease to be struck, for what they have done, by calamity - or it will descend near their home - until there comes the promise of Allah . Indeed, Allah does not fail in [His] promise.

Qu'ran 16:106-108 [In reference to apostates]
Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah, and for them is a great punishment; That is because they preferred the worldly life over the Hereafter and that Allah does not guide the disbelieving people. Those are the ones over whose hearts and hearing and vision Allah has sealed, and it is those who are the heedless.

Qu'ran 17:19
And whoever Allah guides - he is the [rightly] guided; and whoever He sends astray - you will never find for them protectors besides Him, and We will gather them on the Day of Resurrection [fallen] on their faces - blind, dumb and deaf. Their refuge is Hell; every time it subsides We increase them in blazing fire.

Alright so hell being eternal is not really a doctrine every muslim believes in. The idea of an eternal hellfire is more common among shia schools of thought than non shia schools of thought. This can get a little more complicated when you add the qualification of one who once believed and now disbelieved but depending on the school of thought this will still differ.

The hanbalis tend to lean towards the idea ( or at least the wahabi group of hanbalis because wahabism can in some sense technically fall under hanbali school of thought) that if you disbelieve after you believe this is an even bigger sin than murder rape ect. In a lot of cases they will also contend that you will go to the lower parts of hell forever while Malaki schools of thought may differ.

The idea that tends to get me is the verses like Quran 16 :106-108 because allah is the one who seals off their hearing. In other words he will punish you for something he did to you. The bible and pretty much all Abrahamic religion other than maybe the Baha'i have this same problem. It makes god look like a ****.

This is ultimately one of the reasons I left islam and these days find myself leaning towards paganism and shamanism.

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

Excellent question!

On a related note, it appears to me that in the Quran it is frequently claimed that "Allah is merciful", but throughout the book he appears to be anything but merciful. Instead he appears to be spiteful, vindictive, sociopathic, and endlessly cruel.

If you want to know the truth Muslims will often claim he is merciful just because he doesn't immediately send all sinners to hellfire. I'm unsure if I have shared this story before but I will share it now. My friend joined the navy and met a wahabist near the military base. So when this Muslim found out that my friends grandmother had rejected islam ( my friend was a muslim convert like me at the time) he tried to comfort my friend by telling him she's only be in the highest places of hell where it's the least bad.

You just having her brains boil and all that. Skin burning off then regrowing to burn off so on and so forth.

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

Alright so hell being eternal is not really a doctrine every muslim believes in. The idea of an eternal hellfire is more common among shia schools of thought than non shia schools of thought. This can get a little more complicated when you add the qualification of one who once believed and now disbelieved but depending on the school of thought this will still differ.

The hanbalis tend to lean towards the idea ( or at least the wahabi group of hanbalis because wahabism can in some sense technically fall under hanbali school of thought) that if you disbelieve after you believe this is an even bigger sin than murder rape ect. In a lot of cases they will also contend that you will go to the lower parts of hell forever while Malaki schools of thought may differ.

The idea that tends to get me is the verses like Quran 16 :106-108 because allah is the one who seals off their hearing. In other words he will punish you for something he did to you. The bible and pretty much all Abrahamic religion other than maybe the Baha'i have this same problem. It makes god look like a ****.

This is ultimately one of the reasons I left islam and these days find myself leaning towards paganism and shamanism.

This may be true, but the Hadiths support the idea of eternal hellfire.

Even if the hellfire was not eternal it still is punishing someone horrifically for something you did to them.

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

This may be true, but the Hadiths support the idea of eternal hellfire.

Even if the hellfire was not eternal it still is punishing someone horrifically for something you did to them.

Well yeah no **** that was kind of the point of what I said.

 

[paarsurrey]

In Islam one of the prominent doctrines is the idea of Hell, a place of eternal punishment for those who do not believe in the claims of Islam. This is the punishment allegedly prescribed to the nonbeliever by a supposedly just deity. However according to Islam, it is not the unbelievers fault that they do not believe but in fact Allah's. In several of the verses in the Qu'ran it clearly states that Allah wills unbelievers to not believe in him and then punishes them for not believing in him. How is it that anyone can see this as just? What justification do believers propose for such actions?

Thank you for your time.



Qu'ran verses used to support my claim:

These verses all use the Sahih International Translation.

Qu'ran 2:6-7
Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

Qu'ran 2:17-2:18 [In reference to non-believers]
Their example is that of one who kindled a fire, but when it illuminated what was around him, Allah took away their light and left them in darkness [so] they could not see. Deaf, dumb and blind - so they will not return [to the right path].

Qu'ran 6:39
But those who deny Our verses are deaf and dumb within darknesses. Whomever Allah wills - He leaves astray; and whomever He wills - He puts him on a straight path.

Qu'ran 6:107 [In reference to pagans]
But if Allah had willed, they would not have associated [with false gods]. And We have not appointed you over them as a guardian, nor are you a manager over them.

Qu'ran 6:125
So whoever Allah wants to guide - He expands his breast to [contain] Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide - He makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does Allah place defilement upon those who do not believe.

Qu'ran 7:100-101
Has it not become clear to those who inherited the earth after its [previous] people that if We willed, We could afflict them for their sins? But We seal over their hearts so they do not hear. hose cities - We relate to you, [O Muhammad], some of their news. And certainly did their messengers come to them with clear proofs, but they were not to believe in that which they had denied before. Thus does Allah seal over the hearts of the disbelievers.

Qu'ran 7:146
I will turn away from My signs those who are arrogant upon the earth without right; and if they should see every sign, they will not believe in it. And if they see the way of consciousness, they will not adopt it as a way; but if they see the way of error, they will adopt it as a way. That is because they have denied Our signs and they were heedless of them.

Qu'ran 7:175-178
And recite to them, [O Muhammad], the news of him to whom we gave [knowledge of] Our signs, but he detached himself from them; so Satan pursued him, and he became of the deviators. And if We had willed, we could have elevated him thereby, but he adhered [instead] to the earth and followed his own desire. So his example is like that of the dog: if you chase him, he pants, or if you leave him, he [still] pants. That is the example of the people who denied Our signs. So relate the stories that perhaps they will give thought. How evil an example [is that of] the people who denied Our signs and used to wrong themselves. Whoever Allah guides - he is the [rightly] guided; and whoever He sends astray - it is those who are the losers.

Qu'ran 10:99-100
And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, [O Muhammad], would you compel the people in order that they become believers? And it is not for a soul to believe except by permission of Allah, and He will place defilement upon those who will not use reason.

Qu'ran 13:31
And if there was any qur'an by which the mountains would be removed or the earth would be broken apart or the dead would be made to speak, [it would be this Qur'an], but to Allah belongs the affair entirely. Then have those who believed not accepted that had Allah willed, He would have guided the people, all of them? And those who disbelieve do not cease to be struck, for what they have done, by calamity - or it will descend near their home - until there comes the promise of Allah . Indeed, Allah does not fail in [His] promise.

Qu'ran 16:106-108 [In reference to apostates]
Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah, and for them is a great punishment; That is because they preferred the worldly life over the Hereafter and that Allah does not guide the disbelieving people. Those are the ones over whose hearts and hearing and vision Allah has sealed, and it is those who are the heedless.

Qu'ran 17:19
And whoever Allah guides - he is the [rightly] guided; and whoever He sends astray - you will never find for them protectors besides Him, and We will gather them on the Day of Resurrection [fallen] on their faces - blind, dumb and deaf. Their refuge is Hell; every time it subsides We increase them in blazing fire.

"In Islam one of the prominent doctrines is the idea of Hell, a place of eternal punishment for those who do not believe in the claims of Islam."

It is simply wrong understanding of Quran/Islam/Muhammad.
Kindly quote one verse, out of the verses given above, with verses in the text, that is some verses preceding and some verses following, and then prove one's viewpoint. Please
Regards

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

"In Islam one of the prominent doctrines is the idea of Hell, a place of eternal punishment for those who do not believe in the claims of Islam."

It is simply wrong understanding of Quran/Islam/Muhammad.
Kindly quote one verse, out of the verses given above, with verses in the text, that is some verses preceding and some verses following, and then prove one's viewpoint. Please
Regards

1) I notice that you conveniently left hadiths out of that list.

2) In truth its horrific whether it is eternal or not. Are you denying that Islam states that Allah punishes humans for disbelief that he causes them to have?