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Quran & the book(bible)

anders

Well-Known Member
Don't fear me,

I smiled when I read your opening post, because I know that in the cases you mention, the Qur'an was not only far ahead of current legislation, but still is so in many countries. Unfortunately, I have lost the article, but I read some months ago of a trial in which the woman wanted a shari'a settlement after a divorce, because that would allow her to keep her dowry. The laws of that country (one of Gt. Britain, Canada or the US, I think) didn't grant her her money. I'll try to retrieve the article.

The divorce process by stages (I have to rehearse that one too) is admirable. Many countries should study it in detail.

And I can't imagine the books of Islam (or any other religion than Judaism + Christianity) having a section where a jealous man is ordered to bring about an abortion on his wife (Numbers 5), or when a miscarriage because of violence is atoned by the husband's receiving payment for the loss of his property (Ex. 21:22).
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
true blood said:
The law of Moses?

If Paul is refering to a part of the covenant then this statement does not only apply to prophets/preachers.

Would it?

I understand the laws given to Moses are a pact between the Jews and God but if Paul is upholding them then they also apply to Christians.

All Christians, not just the preachers.
 
Gosh, not one answer yet. Are you all still rummaging through your bibles? It's ok, I'm used to not getting answered. Will be back to discuss the other issues originally posted.
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
True Blood...

In the "Christian Nation" thread you`re stating that the Laws of Moses don`t apply to todays Christians yet here you`re saying that Paul himself says they do..at least to the ministry.

Which is it?
 

Simple Man

New Member
Don't Fear Me

The purpose of the law is to remind us and point out our transgressions (Galatians 3:19) or the things we do that are detestable before the Almighty. The reason divorce was added is explained by Jesus in Mark 10:4-9. Hardened hearts towards the Almighty and towards one another, including men and women, results in laws from the Almighty.

Love as spelled out in 1 Corinthians 13:4-9 applies to all genders and when we understand the Spirit of the Almighty we will all realize our true inheritance in eternity and the things of this earth will pass away.
 

kiwimac

Brother Napalm of God's Love
painted wolf said:
Please tell me who these great women leaders of the Biblical church were.... far as I know women were not allowed to be priests/ministers in the bible and for a woman to want to be one was forbidden.

wa:do
PW,

You might start here:

[size=+2]WOMEN'S ROLE IN THE CHURCH
THE RESTORATION OF THE DIACONATE[/size]
[size=+1]Ellen Gvosdev USA)
[/size]
Archive: MaryMartha No 3, Summer/Autumn 1993
[size=+1]Women in the church is not one issue but is a topic comprised of many facets. Let us begin with women in the New Testament and Early Church and proceed to their role as saints and their service in the women's diaconate.[/size]

[size=+1]Women were the first to hear of Christ's Resurrection, and these women disciples were told to "go and proclaim" the Resurrection. Christ first identified Himself to the woman of Samaria. She is known as St Photeine, the Woman at the Well. Many women travelled with Jesus during His ministry. Some women opened their homes to Him, others were teachers and preachers. St Junia is credited with teaching Apollos about Christianity and bringing him to Christ. We can read about her in the New Testament.[/size]

[size=+1]Unfortunately, she is often referred to as Junius, the male form of Junia. Likewise, St Nina, the Evangelizer of Georgia and Equal to the apostles is often called Nino, and both women are referred to as him not her. Prisca or Priscilla, the wife of Aquila, is mentioned before him in the Bible, thus denoting her status in the Christian community. Mary Magdalene was a follower of Christ and a disciple of His Word. The Gospel bears witness to Jesus' chastisement of Martha when she came to Him, angry that her sister Mary was not tending "to the things in the house ".[/size]

DISTORTION OF WOMEN IN CHURCH HISTORY [size=+1]Women in Early Church history were seen to be given an equal share. So unlike prior Hebrew tradition, the Church was egalitarian.This history of women's ministry from the New Testament and Early Church should be proclaimed by the Orthodox, yet examples of Junia/Junius, and Nina/Nino only serve as a testament to the distortion of women in Church history.[/size]

[size=+1]One woman who stands out in the New Testament is Phoebe, a worker with St Paul, who was the first woman deacon. She was called both diakonos and prostatis, which in those days denoted someone in authority. In the 3rd and 4th centuries, women deacons were common. St John Chrysostom was an advocate of the female diaconate, and letters between him and female deacons have survived. Tombstones serve as another reference. Many can be found bearing witness to female deacons and their ministry. One such example is a tombstone on the Mt. of Olives which bears the inscription, "here lies Sophia the Deacon, a second Phoebe".[/size]

[size=+1]Several female deacons became saints. Among them are St Macrina, the sister of Sts. Gregory and Basil; St. Nonna, the wife of St. Gregory Nazianzus; St. Theosebia, the wife of St. Gregory of Nyssa; St. Gorgonia, the daughter of St Gregory the Theologian; St. Melania, St. Susanna, St. Appolonia, St Olympia and St Xenia.

The icon of St. Tatiana shows her wearing the diaconal stole with the words "Holy, Holy,Holy" in Slavonic as is the custom for Russian deacons. She is wearing cuffs, as do our male priests and deacons, and she is holding the censor in one hand, a cross in the other. In the year 535, forty female deacons were employed and serving at Hagia Sophia in Constantinople.[/size]


SIMILARITIES OF FEMALE AND MALE DEACONS [size=+1]Women deacons took Communion from the hands of the bishop in the altar, as do our male priests and deacons today. The female deacons took the chalice from the altar and replaced it on the prothesis table after Communion, as do our male deacons today. Ancient service books attest to the ordination of women deacons, showing the order of ordination, litanies and ordination prayers. Women deacons were ordained right before the Lord's prayer as male deacons are.[/size]

[size=+1]The female diaconate peaked in the Early Church, declined in the eighth century and virtually disappeared by the twelfth century, although individual women especially nuns, have been ordained throughout the ages. In 1911,St Nektarios, then a bishop of Greece, ordained a female monastic as a deacon. A few years later, Chrysostomos, Archbishop of Athens did likewise. In 1957, a college for women deacons opened in Greece. Whilst most assume no graduates have ever been ordained, rumours persist that somewhere in Greece, a woman was ordained a deacon this past summer.The restoration of the female diaconate received a lot of press in pre-revolutionary Russia, winning support from several bishops. The Revolution interrupted the Synod which had it on its agenda, the restoration of this order. Many contemporary women and men feel that the restoration of this order is not a stepping stone to the priesthood, but a viable women's ministry, and that it is long overdue in the Orthodox Church.[/size]

[size=+1]
(original article in THE FORUM publication of the Orthodox Christian Laity)
[/size]

[size=+1]URL: http://tinyurl.com/6h5mg
[/size]


[size=+1]
Kiwimac
[/size]
 
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