Quran Vs Bible in light of science

[beenie]

the way i see things is that (if you believe in God)...he gave us brains and the ability to discover science ourselves. we aren't so dependent on having everything spelled out for us in a book or any other source. it's human nature itself that has helped us discover all we have.

you're right, it doesn't HAVE to be validated by any holy book. scientific evidence surely doesn't decide which holy book i'll follow.

and yes, this has been discussed, to no avail, to death.

 

[SuperNova66]

Sorry, the Qur'an is no more scientific than any other holy book... and that is fine.

IMHO people who try to insist that their faith is scientific do a disservice to both religion and science. Why does faith need science to protect it? Why do you think the Qur'an needs science to validate it?

wa:do

i think i replied to this before on first page

 

[David M]

I seriously doubt that you read any of the books which i posted otherwise you wouldn't had posted this....what i see most people do goolgle error's in Quran(The Final Testament) and blindly put that.....you will truly understand God only when you read Quran(The Final Testament) by yourself

I've read the Quran as well as the bible.

now coming to your answer you are referring to the verse

"Man was fashioned from a liquid poured out. It issued (as a result) of the conjunction of the sexual area of the man and the sexual area of the woman"[Al-Qur’aan 86:5-7]

The sexual area of the man is indicated in the text of the Qur'an by the word sulb (singular). The sexual areas of the woman are designated in the Qur'an by the word tara'ib (plural).

And your source for this transalation is where?

http://www.quranexplorer.com/Quran/Default.aspx has:

So let man consider from what he is created. He is created from a gushing fluid. That issued from between the loins and ribs. Lo! He verily is Able to return him (unto life).

The same concept of semen being issued from betweenthe loins or backbone/lower back and the ribs appears in the tranalations on:

al-quran.info, quran.com, in the translations by Shakir, Yusufali and Pickthal on quran.al-islam.org.

So thats 4 sources that disagree with you.

But even if we allow it to read "That issued between the sexual area of the man and the sexual area of the woman" that is still incorrect, the only gushing fluid is the one that issues from the man. To be scientifically correct only sulb would be linked to a gushing fluid and not tara-ib.

But if you are so convinced that the Quran actually contains real scientific knowledge, specifically anything not based on extant knowledge or simple observation why not present it here.

 

[SuperNova66]

please stop ruining the reputation of Muslims here on RF with these silly argments. may i ask what the heck you are talking about? yes, for a believer, the Qur'an has scientific value. for those who don't believe, it won't. i'm not looking to the Qur'an for scientific evidence, because it's not intended to be a science book. keep the Qur'an for spiritual advice, etc., but not for a lesson on science.

...and no excuse for insulting people of other faiths. i don't hear them insulting you...your argument? yes, but not you.

INSLUTING???

Also again ive mentioned before for non-believer who is educated , science is the ultimate criteria that is what i was trying to prove from quran and yes quran is above science we muslims believe that not the unbelievers

 

[SuperNova66]

I've read the Quran as well as the bible.



And your source for this transalation is where?

Quran Explorer has:

So let man consider from what he is created. He is created from a gushing fluid. That issued from between the loins and ribs. Lo! He verily is Able to return him (unto life).

The same concept of semen being issued from betweenthe loins or backbone/lower back and the ribs appears in the tranalations on:

al-quran.info, quran.com, in the translations by Shakir, Yusufali and Pickthal on quran.al-islam.org.

So thats 4 sources that disagree with you.

But if you are so convinced that the Quran actually contains real scientific knowledge, specifically anything not based on extant knowledge or simple observation why not present it here.

i was quoting Dr Maurice Bucaille for the explanation

and also i have posted links of 2 books which tells scientific facts in Quran in great detail

Book THE QUR’AAN AND MODERN SCIENCE by Dr Zakir Naik
http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/quran/qms.pdf

Dr Maurice Bucaille , A French convert of Islam
http://deenrc.files.wordpress.com/20...an-science.pdf

 

[YmirGF]

i was quoting Dr Maurice Bucaille for the explanation

and also i have posted links of 2 books which tells scientific facts in Quran in great detail

Book THE QUR’AAN AND MODERN SCIENCE by Dr Zakir Naik
http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/quran/qms.pdf

Dr Maurice Bucaille , A French convert of Islam
http://deenrc.files.wordpress.com/20...an-science.pdf

Warning: By citing the works of Zakir Naik and Maurice Bucaille you are effectively undermining your credibility.
In effect, your message is merely parroting to the choir. The words of these two writers makes Muslims, by association, look like fools.

Tell me, SuperNova66, do you read Classical Arabic fluently? I am currently reading a weighty tomb that dissects the Arabic Qur'an in mind-numbing detail. It is painful to read, as it is written by Professors of Linguistics and so their arguments are very dense and difficult to follow, at times. There is one passage where, if I recall correctly, they went on for about 40 pages about a SINGLE word... *sigh* and how it can have MANY meanings. There are also extensive sections on how the meanings of other words remain unclear to this day - even among Muslim scholars. It is a fascinating read, and if one is already conversant in Islamic terminology and has read the Qur'an a few times... it is an invaluable read.

The book is "What the Qur'an really says" compiled by Ibn Warraq.

 

[SuperNova66]

Warning: By citing the works of Zakir Naik and Maurice Bucaille you are effectively undermining your credibility. In effect, your message is merely parroting to the choir. The words of these two writers makes Muslims, by association, look like fools.

lol You're a total moron it seems. Unless you're being satirical.

 

[Caladan]

lol You're a total moron it seems. Unless you're being satirical.

the likes of Naik and Harun Yahya have been a source of much (sad) comedy on the forum.

 

[YmirGF]

lol You're a total moron it seems. Unless you're being satirical.

Indeed. I am the moron here.

Do enlighten us with the genius of your "superior" understanding.

I've tried to warn you. A fellow Muslim has tried to warn you.

You're on your own now.

 

[David M]

i was quoting Dr Maurice Bucaille for the explanation

And his explanation does not match the facts.

and also i have posted links of 2 books which tells scientific facts in Quran in great detail

Book THE QUR’AAN AND MODERN SCIENCE by Dr Zakir Naik
http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/quran/qms.pdf

Dr Maurice Bucaille , A French convert of Islam
http://deenrc.files.wordpress.com/20...an-science.pdf

Argument by linkage does not work, try presenting your arguments here.

But as I have some time lets look at your "books", I'll go with the first one.

Doesn't take long to find some mistakes. For example when he opens with the creation of the universe.

According to the ‘Big Bang’, the whole universe was initially one big mass (Primary Nebula). Then there was a ‘Big Bang’ (Secondary Separation) which resulted in the formation of Galaxies. These then divided to form stars, planets, the sun, the moon, etc. The origin of the universe was unique and the probability of it occurring by ‘chance’ is zero.

This is not what science says, so he is off to a bad start. Essentialy he is claiming that the Quran reveals information that matches something that is not scientifically correct.

Later he talks about the shape of the earth.

In early times, people believed that the earth is flat. For centuries, men were afraid to venture out too far, lest they should fall off the edge. Sir Francis Drake was the first person who proved that the earth is spherical when he sailed around it in 1597.

This is a flat out lie, the spherical nature of the earth was well known before the bible was written, Eratosthenes even calculated the circumference of the earth (with impressive accuracy) back in 240BC. The idea that people thought they would fall off the edge of the world is a myth.

Myth of the Flat Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And it was Juan Sebastián Elcano who commanded the first ship to sail around the world, 55 years before Drake did. So he doesn't know much history as well as being ignorant of cosmology.

He ends with:

though the prevalent notion when the Qur’aan was revealed was that the earth is flat.

No, in that part of the world the prevalent notion was that it was a sphere.

The we get to the section on how the Quran reveals that the sun rotates, unfortunately the verses he uses illustrate that the Quran reveals that the sun moves around the earth just as the moon does, which is completely wrong and reflects the geocentrism of the time.

“It is He Who created The Night and the Day, And the sun and the moon: All (the celestial bodies) Swim along, each in its Rounded course.” [Al-Qur’aan 21:33]

“It is not permitted To the Sun to catch up The Moon, nor can The Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along In (its own) orbit (According to Law).” [Al-Qur’aan 36:40]

The he continues with more errors in cosmology.

This verse mentions an essential fact discovered by modern astronomy, i.e. the existence of the individual orbits of the Sun and the Moon, and their journey through space with their own motion. The ‘fixed place’ towards, which the sun travels, carrying with it the solar system, has been located exactly by modern astronomy. It has been given a name, the Solar Apex. The solar system is indeed moving in space towards a point situated in the constellation of Hercules (alpha Layer) whose exact location is firmly established.

Complete garbage, the Sun orbits the centre of our galaxy which is moving through space, there is no location that we are heading towards. There is a general direction, but this will alter when our galaxy is affected by the gravity of other galaxies.

Do you want me to continue?

 

[tumbleweed41]

A simple challenge about the scientific accuracy of the Qu'ran.

Using the Qu'ran, make a scientific prediction that is currently unknown, and then have it verified through scientific peer review.

In other words, rather than taking current scientific knowledge and showing us where you think the Qu'ran verifies it, take Qu'ranic knowledge that is currently unknown to the scientific community and verify it through the Scientific Method.

Simple predictability, falsifiability and verifiability will confirm the premise of the OP.
Failure to do so is akin to self fulfilled prophesy.

 

[painted wolf]

i think i replied to this before on first page

I must have missed it... seeing as God doesn't write books, men do.

I assume then that your need for an infallible book means that you can not simply have faith?

wa:do

 

[beenie]

INSLUTING???

yes, the following quote by you is insulting:

People like you make me laugh , these so-called modern just wearing a shiny cross in your neck makes you a believer , most of them doing all the which is forbidden in bible

If Christian is a person who follows the teachings of Christ (pbuh) and not one who worships Christ (pbuh). (We are more Christian than the Christians themselves).

Anb If what you are saying is the truth then why is Islam the fastest growing religion on this planet??

As the Qur'an (Ch. 21, V. 18) says: "When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish"

and for what it's worth, i know PLENTY of women who wear the hijab and full burqa...and plenty of men wearing 6" long beards, turbans, topis thinking that "makes them believers" as well, yet they act like complete idiots. so please refrain from senseless accusations.

nothing speaks illiteracy better than attacking "the other side" rather than addressing their points. when all else fails, resort to name-calling and false insults.

it's comments just like those that make others see Muslims as arrogant and incapable of dialogue, and i won't have your back on that ever.

congratulations for proving everyone right that this argument can never be made.

 

[YmirGF]

Simple predictability, falsifiability and verifiability will confirm the premise of the OP.
Failure to do so is akin to self fulfilled prophesy.

I'd be inclined to lower the bar of expectation for the writer of the OP in that, rather than relying on the torturous musings of others, they present these arguments in their own words. Hypothetically, that ought to put most of their vapid suppositions to bed quicker than a wink.

Aside from that, I am mystified why some think that because they cannot be proven wrong, whilst they are unable to prove themselves to be right, that that inability to answer their questions somehow validates the hubris of their thinking. It doesn't. Only intellectual dishonesty would consider that it does.

 

[McBell]

Aside from that, I am mystified why some think that because they cannot be proven wrong, whilst they are unable to prove themselves to be right, that that inability to answer their questions somehow validates the hubris of their thinking. It doesn't. Only intellectual dishonesty would consider that it does.

Faith is a tragically fragile thing you know.

 

[Islam432]

about semen production

~Let man look at and (bear in mind) the substance he is created from!(he is) created from surging fluid , which springs from between spines and ribs! 86:5-7
~"kuliqa minm Maain Daafiq"

~kuliqa=created ; Minm= from ; Maain=liquid,fluid,juice, water ; Daafiq= anythingthat flows out , gushes out, pours our , sheds,

~between 95 to 98% of semen consists of fructose , prostaglandin hormones , metal and salt ion , lipids , steroid hormones , enzymes , basic amines and amino acid

~ All those are produced from glands located in abdomen

~ between 2 to 5 % of it consists sperms

~ Semen is stored in besicles that lie in abdomen , from there it is ejaculated during coitus

~Thus if Quran had said that samen is produced from abdomen ("between that ribcage and spine") , it would be 95 to 98% accurate!

~ but the Quran says where it comes from during coitus , so it is 100% accurate!

~ Bain us Sulbe wat taraib = backbone , loin , lower back ; Tarib = ribs , breastbone ,chest. Bain = between , among, amidst, it is similar to saying , "somewhere between the front and back"

~ If we take the litral meaning , The seminal vesicles are anterior to sacrum and coccyx ( lower back , loin) and the ribs are anterior to seminal vesicles , If one was to draw a line from the tip of the coccyx, yo upper portion of seminal vesicle_either one of the two_and extend the line forwards it will catch the ribcage . The seminal vesicles form which the semen spurts out during coitus , lies between the ribs and coccyx! Thus , we still find the Quran is 100% correct.

 

[Islam432]

And his explanation does not match the facts.


Argument by linkage does not work, try presenting your arguments here.

But as I have some time lets look at your "books", I'll go with the first one.

Doesn't take long to find some mistakes. For example when he opens with the creation of the universe.
This is not what science says, so he is off to a bad start. Essentialy he is claiming that the Quran reveals information that matches something that is not scientifically correct.

How The Universe was formed from hot gaseous in the Noble Quran:

Let us look what Allah Almighty said about the Universe in the Noble Quran:

"Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: 'Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly.' They said: 'We do come (together), in willing obedience.' So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge. (The Noble Quran, 41:11-12)"

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (The Noble Quran, 21:30)"

The Arabic word for "sky" in Noble Verse 41:11 above is "samaa", which is the same word used for "heaven" and "Universe". Since the 7 heavens didn't exist yet (because the seven firmaments or heavens were mentioned in the next Noble Verse 41:12), then this CLEARLY MAKES the "samaa" be referring to the Universe, since the heaven was the entire Universe when GOD Almighty "comprehended in His design the sky". He then later divided it into seven firmaments or heavens.

Anyway, as we clearly see above in the Noble Verses, Allah Almighty initially created the Universe or the "samaa" with smoke (Dukhan). Dukhan in Arabic refers to the smoke coming from fire, which is always HOT GAS.

A new star forming out of a cloud of gas and dust (nebula), which is one of the remnants of the "smoke" that was the origin of the whole universe. (The Space Atlas, Heather and Henbest, page 50)
Allah Almighty said: "Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke...(The Noble Quran, 41:11)"

Now as to Noble Verse 21:30 above, according to the Big Bang Theory, the Universe experienced an unbelievable explosion from the hot gases that were forming it, which caused the Universe (which consisted of the ball of gases) to split and expand. The Earth was separated then from the gaseous mass that was forming the Universe. The gases according to the scientific articles below in this article made "the universe be consisted of compact ball of hydrogen -- protons, neutrons, electrons, and their anti-particles -- plus radiation. There were not differentiated planets, stars, suns, galaxies. Five billion years ago, the compact hydrogen soup blasted apart with huge force, matter was hurled in all directions, and the universe doubled in size. This expansion of the universe is still going on." [taken from "Ask Yahoo" web site at ask.yahoo.com/ask/20001027

It is really interesting to know that the Big Bang Theory suggests that the Universe is still expanding until today, because this is EXACTLY what Allah Almighty also claimed in the Noble Quran:

"And the firmament, We constructed with power and skill and verily We are expanding it. (The Noble Quran, 51:47)"

Again, the word "samaa" was used for "firmament". "samaa" as I mentioned above means either "heaven", or "Universe" depending on how it is used. Certainly, the meaning of the word "samaa" in Noble Verse 51:47 is "Universe".

Also, since Allah Almighty didn't have any names for the explosive gases (such as hydrogen) 1400 years ago, He summed them up by calling them "smoke (dukhan)", which is literally a hot gas. Smoke is also ball-shaped and compacted together while it is hot and in the air. This description perfectly fits what the big bang theory suggests from the shape of the "compact ball" of gases that formed the Universe.

When the Cosmic Crunch to the Universe occurs, the Day of Judgment shall come:

Let us look at what Allah Almighty said about the "Cosmic Crunch" Theory:

يوم نطوي السماء كطي السجل للكتب كما بدأنا أول خلق نعيده وعدا علينا إنا كنا فعلين

"The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed),- even as We produced the first creation, so shall We produce a new one: a promise We have undertaken: truly shall We fulfill it. (The Noble Quran, 21:104)"

Notice here how Allah Almighty Said that He will ROLL BACK the heavens like a scroll rolled up. NASA's discovery only 8 years ago!

They have discovered only 8 years ago; that the Universe is flat! The best way the NASA scientists could describe the Universe is "like a sheet of paper," which Allah Almighty has already described 1,400 years ago to a goat herder and illiterate Bedouin and Shepard, our beloved and blessed Prophet Muhammad, Peace, Mercy and Blessings be upon him. Ameen.

The Bible never mentioned anything about the formation of the Universe:

No where in the Bible do we see any mention of the creation of the Universe. The Bible lacks a great deal of information about how GOD Almighty created things.

 

[Islam432]

Later he talks about the shape of the earth.
This is a flat out lie, the spherical nature of the earth was well known before the bible was written, Eratosthenes even calculated the circumference of the earth (with impressive accuracy) back in 240BC. The idea that people thought they would fall off the edge of the world is a myth.

And it was Juan Sebastián Elcano who commanded the first ship to sail around the world, 55 years before Drake did. So he doesn't know much history as well as being ignorant of cosmology.

He ends with:
No, in that part of the world the prevalent notion was that it was a sphere.

First of all you are pointing out mistake of writer Dr Zakir Naik not from Quran , and yes he rightly said that most of the people in the world assumed that the world was flat at that time including Bible which gives a description that Earth is flat,

How did humans discover that the earth is round and not flat?
wiki.answers.com/Q/How_did_humans_discover_that_the_earth_is_round_and_not_flat

It is true that a Greek astronomer calculated that the earth was actually round about 200 B.C.E. However, the fact of it's circle shape was not generally accepted until almost a 1000 years later , but Quran is more superior and describes Earth as sphere

[079:030] He made the earth egg-shaped.

Since the Prophet Pbuh of Islam only knew little, especially from the unseen, and since he never said that the earth is egg-shaped or spherical, then it is quite clear that he did not know that the earth was indeed egg-shape
Allah Almighty clearly said so in the Noble Quran:

"And they ask you (O Muhammad SAW) concerning the Rooh (the Spirit); Say: "The Rooh (the Spirit): it is one of the things, the knowledge of which is only with my Lord. And of knowledge, you (mankind) have been given only a little." (The Noble Quran, 17:85)"

 

[Tiapan]

Islam actually says very little about science other than metaphorical examples which can be interpreted a thousand ways 500 for 500 against take your pick. But science is not a lottery it actually backs its claims with something called evidence, religions dont, they are totally different aspects of the universe.

In fact Science shows that both Islam and Roman Catholicism have an affinity to poor nations where suffering and hardship are common. Once the standard of living increases there is an immediate tendency to move away from these ideologies to different but equally valid ideologies such as atheism.

Cheers

 

[Islam432]

So where does sperm come from? The Quran got that one wrong
Without twisting the words and some amazing mental gymnastics there is no science in the bible or the quran that does not match the thinking common or simple observation at the times they were written.

The reason why Allah Almighty might not have said it as clear and straight forward is because it would've been impossible for people back then to have accepted Islam if the Noble Quran contained "crazy" claims in it. So, while Noble Verse 27:88 did not sound crazy to Muslims 1500 years ago, it is most definitely an accurate Scientific Statement to us today.

Allah Almighty purposely made the Noble Quran for all times and all places. And He purposely DID NOT make every Noble Verse be possible for interpretation 1500 years ago. Let's look at an example:

"Over it are Nineteen. And We have set none but angels as Guardians of the Fire; and We have fixed their number only as a trial for Unbelievers,- in order that the People of the Book may arrive at certainty, and the Believers may increase in Faith,- and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book and the Believers, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the Unbelievers may say, 'What symbol doth God intend by this?' Thus doth God leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth: and none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He and this is no other than a warning to mankind. (The Noble Quran, 74:30-31)"

So, while the number 19 was impossible to interpret 1500 years ago in Noble Verses 74:30-31, but by the Will of Allah Almighty, it became clear to us today. The number 19 was proven to be a fundamental and very important number in the Computer technology today, and adding to that, the Noble Quran's numerical codes are all based on the number 19, which only the computer machine was able to calculate and figure out!