Radical Philosophies

[Wolfborne]

In my studies (search for answers) I have come to some startling conclusions:

Free Will
If God gave us free will, and He can't interfere with our choices no matter what (otherwise it is not free will) then what good is prayer?

Example: a soldier prays for protection to make it home safely after his tour of duty. He gets killed anyway. Why? Someone else made the free will choice to shoot him, and God can't interfere with that. Free will works for both sides of the coin.

The same could be said of anyone who has a hereditary condition. Someone in your family tree made a free will choice to do something (incest, drugs, alcohol, etc.), and that choice echoes for eternity, potentially affecting everyone in the bloodline. Prayer won't help because that would be interfering with the consequences of a free will choice that was previously made.

Bad things happen to good people, not because it is God's will, part of a bigger plan (or any other cop out answer people like to give) but because someone made a choice to do something bad to that person, plain and simple.

The Bible Is Not Literal
I do not take the Bible literally on many accounts. No where does it state that it is a history textbook, have all the answers, or the need to explain miracles/supernatural events. If anything, it causes more confusion than it does anything else.

I do find that it contradicts itself in numerous places, errors are made in translations, and what humankind could not explain back then, science can now explain on most accounts. Our knowledge of physics, chemistry, biology, geology, astronomy etc. separates our interpretations of various events versus what the ancients guessed at.

Lucifer Is Not Satan
I grew up learning from the KJV Bible. Isaiah 14:12 is the only passage in the KJV that uses the word "Lucifer." Unfortunately that passage was a bad translation, done by the 4th century monk Jerome, who was translating from the Greek into Latin for The Latin Vulgate. Modern scholars recognize this error (thanks to the Dead Sea Scrolls) and have removed the word Lucifer from the passage entirely (NIV, NASB, ESV, etc.). Besides, the entire chapter is talking about a king of Babylon, not Satan. This leads to my next find...

Christians Take Verses Out Of Context
I can't tell you the number of times I have heard smoeone quote a verse, completely out of context, in order to try and support or illustrate a point they are trying to make. You can't cherry pick a verse and apply it in a "literal" sense. Far too often the Bible speaks in metaphors, or the verse has to be used in the context of the chapter surrounding it.

Souls Can't Burn In Hell
The skin is an organ, complete with nerve endings that send a signal to the brain that something hurts. Your body stays behind when you die (which means your nerve endings and your brain that registers pain, stay behind) so there is no physical possibility for "burning in hell."

The hell, fire and brimstone sermons started long ago to scare the wits out of the congregation, so they would follow the church's lead. People know that being burned alive is a horrific, painful way to die. What better way to control the masses than to appeal to their sense of eternal preservation.

The Church Likes Money And Power
There was a very big reason why the Roman Catholic Church did not want its Latin Vulgate translated into English: the clergy wanted to tell people what to worship, how to worship, how much to "donate" to the church, and have no system of checks and balances in doing so. After several people were burned for standing up to the RCC, the translations happened anyway (go Henry VIII!), and people woke up to the fact that they had been duped for centuries.

There's many, many more points like these that I could make, but I'll stop there for now.

Yes I believe in God.

 

[dgirl1986]

What makes a philosophy radical?

 

[Wolfborne]

What makes a philosophy radical?

When you run the risk of being burned at the stake (if someone could get their hands on you) that pretty much makes it radical. That or if you go against the norm or traditional way of thinking.

 

[Iron Wolf]

Only the Roman Catholic Church likes Money and Power? What about the rest of the christian churches?

 

[Quintessence]

None of that sounds particularly radical to me.

 

[Wolfborne]

Only the Roman Catholic Church likes Money and Power? What about the rest of the christian churches?

They would be included, but the RCC started it off, so I used it as the example. Keep in mind that the Protestant Reformation did not happen until some 1500 years after Jesus, so up until then if you were a Christian in Europe, you were pretty much Catholic.

Of course my OP is more for Christians to debate/discuss than non-Christians. Nons would have a "duh" attitude toward most of the post.

 

[Iron Wolf]

They would be included, but the RCC started it off, so I used it as the example. Keep in mind that the Protestant Reformation did not happen until some 1500 years after Jesus, so up until then if you were a Christian in Europe, you were pretty much Catholic.

I know. Just getting that cleared up. I've, unfortunately, met people who justify anything a protestant church would do, and criticize those same things if they're done by the catholic church. Very hypocritical of them.

 

[Quintessence]

I dont so much have a "duh" attitude as "yes, there are already people - including some Christians - who would agree with what you wrote." It's not far enough outside the mainstream for me to call radical. No, radical would be militant folks organizing a plot to overthrow the government or systematically brainwash the human population.

 

[Wolfborne]

...No, radical would be militant folks organizing a plot to overthrow the government or systematically brainwash the human population.

Maybe I am plotting, and this is but the first pebble of a bigger landslide! :sarcastic

 

[Super Universe]

In my studies (search for answers) I have come to some startling conclusions:

Free Will
If God gave us free will, and He can't interfere with our choices no matter what (otherwise it is not free will) then what good is prayer?

Example: a soldier prays for protection to make it home safely after his tour of duty. He gets killed anyway. Why? Someone else made the free will choice to shoot him, and God can't interfere with that. Free will works for both sides of the coin.

The same could be said of anyone who has a hereditary condition. Someone in your family tree made a free will choice to do something (incest, drugs, alcohol, etc.), and that choice echoes for eternity, potentially affecting everyone in the bloodline. Prayer won't help because that would be interfering with the consequences of a free will choice that was previously made.

Bad things happen to good people, not because it is God's will, part of a bigger plan (or any other cop out answer people like to give) but because someone made a choice to do something bad to that person, plain and simple.

The Bible Is Not Literal
I do not take the Bible literally on many accounts. No where does it state that it is a history textbook, have all the answers, or the need to explain miracles/supernatural events. If anything, it causes more confusion than it does anything else.

I do find that it contradicts itself in numerous places, errors are made in translations, and what humankind could not explain back then, science can now explain on most accounts. Our knowledge of physics, chemistry, biology, geology, astronomy etc. separates our interpretations of various events versus what the ancients guessed at.

Lucifer Is Not Satan
I grew up learning from the KJV Bible. Isaiah 14:12 is the only passage in the KJV that uses the word "Lucifer." Unfortunately that passage was a bad translation, done by the 4th century monk Jerome, who was translating from the Greek into Latin for The Latin Vulgate. Modern scholars recognize this error (thanks to the Dead Sea Scrolls) and have removed the word Lucifer from the passage entirely (NIV, NASB, ESV, etc.). Besides, the entire chapter is talking about a king of Babylon, not Satan. This leads to my next find...

Christians Take Verses Out Of Context
I can't tell you the number of times I have heard smoeone quote a verse, completely out of context, in order to try and support or illustrate a point they are trying to make. You can't cherry pick a verse and apply it in a "literal" sense. Far too often the Bible speaks in metaphors, or the verse has to be used in the context of the chapter surrounding it.

Souls Can't Burn In Hell
The skin is an organ, complete with nerve endings that send a signal to the brain that something hurts. Your body stays behind when you die (which means your nerve endings and your brain that registers pain, stay behind) so there is no physical possibility for "burning in hell."

The hell, fire and brimstone sermons started long ago to scare the wits out of the congregation, so they would follow the church's lead. People know that being burned alive is a horrific, painful way to die. What better way to control the masses than to appeal to their sense of eternal preservation.

The Church Likes Money And Power
There was a very big reason why the Roman Catholic Church did not want its Latin Vulgate translated into English: the clergy wanted to tell people what to worship, how to worship, how much to "donate" to the church, and have no system of checks and balances in doing so. After several people were burned for standing up to the RCC, the translations happened anyway (go Henry VIII!), and people woke up to the fact that they had been duped for centuries.

There's many, many more points like these that I could make, but I'll stop there for now.

Yes I believe in God.

God gave us free will, He is certainly capable of interfering but He won't. You think God exists, or should exist, to give you luxury and make you happy. It's just not about you. Humans always seem to have a great deal of difficulty accepting that.

Prayer develops the soul/mind connection. They are two separate pathways. The soul path mostly works one way, from you out to the soul and then to God. This is how God experiences His universe. The mind pathway works entirely one way, to you.

God does not punish humans for incest, drugs, or alcohol, or any other behavior.

Bad things happen to good people? Yes, and good things as well.

The bible is not literal? Some parts are, some parts are not. Most often humans simply do not understand the context of revelation.

Lucifer is not Satan? Correct.

Christians take verses out of context? Some do.

There is no physical possibility for burning in hell? Correct. When Jesus discussed hell He was giving a warning to Lucifer who was in the midst of his rebellion. Still, a soul can be destroyed by a type of energy best described as fire.

The fire and brimstone sermons were to scare the people? Yes, and the idea that God is jealous, and that God can get angry, and that God is vengeful, all primitive human traits.

The church likes money and power? It does, if you've ever been to the Vatican you would see beautiful marble floors, cherub statues above, and bronze pillars. I find it to be a symbol of human selfishness.

 

[Quintessence]

Maybe I am plotting, and this is but the first pebble of a bigger landslide! :sarcastic

I'm still waiting for an answer to dgirl's question, because it'll provide some insight into why you titled your thread "radical philosophies" when to some of us that's an odd way to put it.

 

[Wolfborne]

Lucifer is not Satan? Correct.

When Jesus discussed hell He was giving a warning to Lucifer who was in the midst of his rebellion.

You missed a point...Lucifer never existed. That name was a bad translation. Satan is Satan. Lucifer, or as it should have been written, lucifer, was merely pointing to the morning star; the planet we know as Venus. Lucifer was not an angel a demon, or anyone/anything.

 

[dgirl1986]

When you run the risk of being burned at the stake (if someone could get their hands on you) that pretty much makes it radical. That or if you go against the norm or traditional way of thinking.

Well there is no risk of that these days except for the occassional nutter who will burn anyone for any reason.

The views you listed are actually shared by more people than you think.

 

[Wolfborne]

I'm still waiting for an answer to dgirl's question, because it'll provide some insight into why you titled your thread "radical philosophies" when to some of us that's an odd way to put it.

For now, consider it an advertising or marketing gimmick to lure in readers!

 

[Wolfborne]

Well there is no risk of that these days except for the occassional nutter who will burn anyone for any reason.

The views you listed are actually shared by more people than you think.

Oh I am well aware. I...target...orthodox Christians, especially KJV only advocates, because they are the easiest to rattle with "radical" ideas (wherein the post is radical in their view).

 

[dgirl1986]

Oh I am well aware. I...target...orthodox Christians, especially KJV only advocates, because they are the easiest to rattle with "radical" ideas (wherein the post is radical in their view).

Why is there a need to target specific groups?

 

[Super Universe]

You missed a point...Lucifer never existed. That name was a bad translation. Satan is Satan. Lucifer, or as it should have been written, lucifer, was merely pointing to the morning star; the planet we know as Venus. Lucifer was not an angel a demon, or anyone/anything.

I didn't miss a point, I stated mine.

When a new area of the universe is formed it falls under the jurisdiction of a high level angel. Lucifer was the angel in charge of this area of the universe for a very long time. Once Christ arrived Lucifer knew his time was about up so he began his rebellion.

The term Bright Morning Star is an honorary rank for an angel, it's like calling someone a Captain even though that is not their name. Angels can reach the rank of Stars, Morning Stars, and at even higher ranks become Bright Morning Stars.

Humans don't understand the context of revelation so often because you think in too simple terms. Believe it or not, it's not all about you.

 

[Thief]

Oh I am well aware. I...target...orthodox Christians, especially KJV only advocates, because they are the easiest to rattle with "radical" ideas (wherein the post is radical in their view).

I don't mine being targeted.
But some participants do.
Check the rules about bullying or trolling.

Anyway....
I for one don't mind playing target.
It gives me the opportunity to display the immaturity of my opponent.

King James is my prefered reference.
But I don't read it like most 'orthodox' believers.

Works for me.

 

[Wolfborne]

I didn't miss a point, I stated mine.

When a new area of the universe is formed it falls under the jurisdiction of a high level angel. Lucifer was the angel in charge of this area of the universe for a very long time. Once Christ arrived Lucifer knew his time was about up so he began his rebellion.

The term Bright Morning Star is an honorary rank for an angel, it's like calling someone a Captain even though that is not their name. Angels can reach the rank of Stars, Morning Stars, and at even higher ranks become Bright Morning Stars.

Humans don't understand the context of revelation so often because you think in too simple terms. Believe it or not, it's not all about you.

When in doubt, M.S.U.

 

[Quintessence]

For now, consider it an advertising or marketing gimmick to lure in readers!

Fair enough.