rape justice?

[Curious George]

while speaking with friends we began talking about prison reform. Several comments were made by my friends.

The first was questioning why more of his tax dollars should go to help people who have screwed up. He was not saying he should pay less taxes but felt that enough is already spent on prisons and were any extra security measures put in place the funding would need to come from the existing funds.

Another friend believed that child rapists especially should be subject to a regular raping by fellow inmates.

Your thoughts?

 

[Me Myself]

I understand child rapists are general out very far away from the others so they dont kill them horribly.

I am against torture in general.

 

[DallasApple]

Because its inhumane that's why.And the vast majority of people in prison are not in there for violent crimes in the first place.Many are in there for getting caught with drugs ..addicts and small time dealers etc..the punishment for that should not be to throw them in a cage to be raped over over ..its sick..2ncondly we should spend more KEEPING them out of prison and offering rehabilitation instead.The research shows it SAVES money. Their is a significant reduction in them just returning right back to prison after release.( reoffending).

Just because you "screw up" doesn't mean you "deserve" to raped.

Child rapist? IDK..I would not be opposed to chemical castration .Being raped regularly??Why not just give them the death penalty?

 

[DallasApple]

I also don't believe in long term solitary confinement.I saw just the other day in one prison 30,000 inmates went on a hunger strike.The were protesting that some prisoners had put put in solitary confinement for as long as 20 years.

 

[Me Myself]

Before I was pro death penalty, but as I ve heard said before, false convictions do occur and while they maye percentagewise very small, it is better to give back some years of his life than finding out he was inocent after he was killed.

Also I wonder, are talking about actual rape or situations like when a 21 old teacher had sex with a 17 "child"? Because I understand US law pretends that's rape even when the man consented under some silliness that consent is impossible till you get to the magical number.

 

[DallasApple]

Before I was pro death penalty, but as I ve heard said before, false convictions do occur and while they maye percentagewise very small, it is better to give back some years of his life than finding out he was inocent after he was killed.

Also I wonder, are talking about actual rape or situations like when a 21 old teacher had sex with a 17 "child"? Because I understand US law pretends that's rape even when the man consented under some silliness that consent is impossible till you get to the magical number.

17 is the age of consent in my state. A 100 year old can legally have sex with a 17 yo.

 

[Alceste]

I think the whole point of prison reform and prison justice activism is to save money. It's costly to lock somebody up for years, and the current system is more likely to convert convicts into worse criminals than it is to reform them into contributing members of society.

There seem to be two incompatible objectives driving the current system: the desire to punish, and the desire to reform. IMO, we can't do both. We've been operating on the premise that punishment is mainly what the justice system is for, and crime has steadily increased anyway. Recidivism is sky high. So obviously punishment has failed to achieve the objective of reducing crime overall, and may even increase it due to the connections petty criminals will make in prison.

Sticking an ankle bracelet on a non-violent offender and allowing them to go about their daily lives with certain restrictions, obligating them to undertake a course of counseling or therapy, rehab, etc. is WAY CHEAPER than locking them up, and they can keep working and paying taxes during their sentence. And they're not going to meet any hardcore criminals to be inspired by.

So your friends can rest assured that prison reform / prison justice movements don't want to waste more of their tax money. They want to save taxpayer money and also do things that actually reduce the crime rate by rehabilitating petty criminals before they spiral out of control.

 

[Me Myself]

I honestly saw it more like "the desire to get undesired elements out of e society of inocent people"

 

[Me Myself]

I

Sticking an ankle bracelet on a non-violent offender and allowing them to go about their daily lives with certain restrictions, obligating them to undertake a course of counseling or therapy, rehab, etc. is WAY CHEAPER than locking them up, and they can keep working and paying taxes during their sentence.

Hmmm... That sounds like a very interesting proposal.

Is like the cutting the hand thing but withouot the gore.

How boring of you

 

[MysticSang'ha]

while speaking with friends we began talking about prison reform. Several comments were made by my friends.

The first was questioning why more of his tax dollars should go to help people who have screwed up. He was not saying he should pay less taxes but felt that enough is already spent on prisons and were any extra security measures put in place the funding would need to come from the existing funds.

Another friend believed that child rapists especially should be subject to a regular raping by fellow inmates.

Your thoughts?

How horrible.

I wouldn't wish rape on my worst enemy. It's torture.

 

[DallasApple]

[QUOTE They want to save taxpayer money and also do things that actually reduce the crime rate by rehabilitating petty criminals before they spiral out of control.][/QUOTE]

Including not returning them back into society as repeated rape victims.Right that will fix them!

 

[tytlyf]

I'll tell you one thing, child rapists being raped is the last of their worries. The biggest worry would be letting anyone know that you are a child rapist.

 

[Curious George]

I think the whole point of prison reform and prison justice activism is to save money. It's costly to lock somebody up for years, and the current system is more likely to convert convicts into worse criminals than it is to reform them into contributing members of society.

There seem to be two incompatible objectives driving the current system: the desire to punish, and the desire to reform. IMO, we can't do both. We've been operating on the premise that punishment is mainly what the justice system is for, and crime has steadily increased anyway. Recidivism is sky high. So obviously punishment has failed to achieve the objective of reducing crime overall, and may even increase it due to the connections petty criminals will make in prison.

Sticking an ankle bracelet on a non-violent offender and allowing them to go about their daily lives with certain restrictions, obligating them to undertake a course of counseling or therapy, rehab, etc. is WAY CHEAPER than locking them up, and they can keep working and paying taxes during their sentence. And they're not going to meet any hardcore criminals to be inspired by.

So your friends can rest assured that prison reform / prison justice movements don't want to waste more of their tax money. They want to save taxpayer money and also do things that actually reduce the crime rate by rehabilitating petty criminals before they spiral out of control.

I agree that the retributive and utilitarian philosophies of imprisonment are conflicting in some manners. which philosophy do you prefer and why?

 

[DallasApple]

I'll tell you one thing, child rapists being raped is the last of their worries. The biggest worry would be letting anyone know that you are a child rapist.

Right because then you are looking at a rape and a murder.

 

[tytlyf]

Right because then you are looking at a rape and a murder.

No rape. Only murder.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Prison is not a nice place nor should it be. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

Prison is not a nice place nor should it be. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

While prisons are uncomfortable places, torture of inmates actually violates their remaining constitutional rights, not to mention the reality of false conviction.

 

[Me Myself]

While prisons are uncomfortable places, torture of inmates actually violates their remaining constitutional rights, not to mention the reality of false conviction.

Absolutely.

I am of e mind prison is to keep the undesirables out of society.

Seriously though, alceste's option for non violent offenders sounded very interesting...

 

[Alceste]

I agree that the retributive and utilitarian philosophies of imprisonment are conflicting in some manners. which philosophy do you prefer and why?

I prefer rehabilitation (utilitarian) because I am a pragmatist. If the point of the criminal justice system isn't to reduce crime, I think it's a waste of money. If we don't care about reducing crime, why bother locking people up in the first place?

Also, I feel that when people turn to crime, there may be a reason for it that can be fixed. For example, if someone steals bread because they're hungry, it's cheaper to give them free bread - thus eliminating the condition that made them turn to crime - than it is to lock them up as a thief.

Crime is positively correlated to things like drug addiction, mental illness and poverty. If we redirect much of our enormous, wasted "punishment" resources into social policies that lower rates of those three things, we can lower crime rates too.

As for why I don't favour punishment, I guess I'm just not a sadist. I don't see the point. I think the only rational reason for locking anybody up is that they pose a danger to others.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

Absolutely.

I am of e mind prison is to keep the undesirables out of society.

Seriously though, alceste's option for non violent offenders sounded very interesting...

I'm in agreement with you regarding the role of prisons, but I see no issue with alcest's proposal regarding nonviolent offenders.