Rape under Shariah

[Raymann]

Do you wonder why everywhere you find Muslims the rape rate is so high?
There are a few reasons:
The Islamic culture and Shariah are the main culprits.
Every woman who according to the Muslim culture is not properly covered is a target to be raped.
Ask the Swedish girls who now even paint their hair thinking that would help.
She was looking for it, "they would say".
Young Muslims cannot have sex until they get married and they are not even allowed to masturbate.
They cannot have sex with prostitutes either so at some point, they are like loose animals in heat.
Sharia doesn't help either, in fact, makes the problem worst.
Islam makes rape almost impossible to prosecute under its Shariah law and Muslims know it.
Men know it and women know it.
Men know they can easily get away with it and women know they risk prison or even being stoned to death by accusing a rapist.
Thank Allah for that.
Example:
A man arrives home to find his wife being raped.
He catches and takes the man to the police.
The man claims it was consensual sex.
The woman claims it was rape.
The man's word in a court of law is worth twice the word of a woman.
The victim (the woman) has no chance, therefore.
The witness is worthless since both, the victim and the rapist have admitted to having sex.
The judgment is therefore according to Shariah a clear case of adultery (sex outside of marriage).
The woman can pay with her life by being stoned to death.
The man carries a lesser penalty (some lashes and prison)
Thanks again, Allah.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Do you wonder why everywhere you find Muslims the rape rate is so high?

No. I do, however, wonder why islamophobia seems so prevalent.

 

[Raymann]

No. I do, however, wonder why islamophobia seems so prevalent.

Islamophobia as you call it is the consequence of this kind of behavior, don't you think?
If western women are victims of rape during an open celebration of Christmas in front of a church in an open plaza and the perpetrators happen to be all Muslims, what would you think our opinion would be of those Muslims?
If young women are trapped and rapped by hoards of Muslim men while enjoying a rock concert, what do you think our opinion would be about those Muslims?
We don't call that "Islamophobia', you do.
You don't condemn the crime but you prefer to condemn the ones who protest against it.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Do you wonder why everywhere you find Muslims the rape rate is so high?

This is a pretty big claim to make, considering rape statistics are extremely difficult to compare country to country, and rape is often severely under-reported in certain countries, so what info we have is patchy at best.

Nevertheless, let's take a look at what statistics we have. In order, the countries with the highest rape rates are:

1) Botswana - 92.93
(Majority religion: Christian - 79.1%, Islam: less than 1.4%)

2) Lesotho - 82.68
(Majority religion: Christian - 93%, Islam: less than 0.2%)

3) South Africa - 72.1
(Majority religion: Christian - 68%, Islam: 2%)

4) Bermuda - 67.29
(Majority religion: Christian - 71.1%, Islam: 1%)

5) Sweden - 63.54
(Majority religion: Christian - 64.9%, Islam: 2.3%)

6) Suriname - 45.21
(Majority religion: Christian - 48.4%, Islam: 13.9%)

7) Costa Rica - 36.7
(Majority religion: Christian - 94%, Islam: 0.1%)

8) Nicaragua - 31.6
(Majority religion: Christian - 83.1%, Islam: less than 1.6%)

9) Grenada - 30.63
(Majority religion: Christian - 86.4%, Islam: less than 5.5%)

10) Saint Kitts and Nevis - 28.62
(Majority religion: Christian - 87.6%, Islam: 0.52%)

SOURCES:
Rape Statistics by Country 2022
Religion in Botswana - Wikipedia
Religion in Lesotho - Wikipedia
Religion in South Africa - Wikipedia
Bermuda Religions - Demographics
Religion in Sweden - Wikipedia
Religion in Suriname - Wikipedia
Religion in Costa Rica - Wikipedia
Religion in Nicaragua - Wikipedia
Grenada - Wikipedia
Saint Kitts and Nevis - Wikipedia

So, based on the statistics we have at hand (that are admittedly incomplete, at the very least), we can say that the conclusion assumed by your question/premise is flawed.

/thread

 

[icehorse]

No. I do, however, wonder why islamophobia seems so prevalent.

"islamophobia" is inherently a dishonest word. I think we should take Muslims at their word. Muslims claim that the Quran is perfect, timeless, and easy to understand. Muslims claim that Muhammad's life was the perfect role model for how to live. And, despite centuries of pressure, Muslims refuse to reform Islam's core claims.

Muhammad was frequently misogynistic, and the Quran is clearly misogynistic.

So @Jayhawker Soule, by introducing the term "islamophobic", it would seem that you're guilty of the soft bigotry of low expectations?

 

[icehorse]

So, based on the statistics we have at hand (that are admittedly incomplete, at the very least), we can say that the conclusion assumed by your question/premise is flawed.

[GALLERY=media, 7647]Secure-v7 by icehorse posted Aug 27, 2016 at 9:14 AM[/GALLERY]

 

[ImmortalFlame]

[GALLERY=media, 7647]Secure-v7 by icehorse posted Aug 27, 2016 at 9:14 AM[/GALLERY]

Uh huh.

Firstly, could you provide a source?

Secondly, the claim was about rape statistics. Remember, the claim is "everywhere you find Muslims, the rape rate is high". Well, I just provided the top ten highest rape rates by country, and in every single one of them the Muslim population is relatively small (except in one, where it is a fairly average 13.9%).

I mean, if you want it in illustration form:
Rape rates (police reported) per 100,000 population, 2010–2012

SOURCE: index

 

[icehorse]

Uh huh.

Firstly, could you provide a source?

Secondly, the claim was about rape statistics. Remember, the claim is "everywhere you find Muslims, the rape rate is high". Well, I just provided the top ten highest rape rates by country, and in every single one of them the Muslim population is relatively small (except in one, where it is a fairly average 13.9%).

Do you think occurrences of rape are routinely reported in Muslim majority countries?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Do you think occurrences of rape are routinely reported in Muslim majority countries?

I even acknowledged this in my post. The point is that the OP alleged rape rates were high. Since rape is under-reported in many countries, we have very little to support that claim. What data we do have, however, contradicts the claim. How can you make the claim that Islam = high rape rates when you don't have a look at the rape rates?

It's a "dog ate my homework" situation. It's most definitely true that rape rates are most likely higher than reported in many Muslim countries - but you can't make a claim about Muslim countries having higher rape rates if you don't have those rape rates either way.

So, unless you actually have data to support the claim, the claim is flawed.

 

[icehorse]

I even acknowledged this in my post. The point is that the OP alleged rape rates were high. Since rape is under-reported in many countries, we have very little to support that claim. What data we do have, however, contradicts the claim. How can you make the claim that Islam = high rape rates when you don't have a look at the rape rates?

It's a "dog ate my homework" situation. It's most definitely true that rape rates are most likely higher than reported in many Muslim countries - but you can't make a claim about Muslim countries having higher rape rates if you don't have those rape rates either way.

So, unless you actually have data to support the claim, the claim is flawed.

LMGTFY..

Most Dangerous Countries For Women

And The Worst Country To Be A Woman Is...

So I agree that it's hard to collect these stats. But my intuition is that there is a high correlation between overall conditions for women and the incidence of rape.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Islamophobia as you call it is the consequence of this kind of behavior, don't you think?

Absolutely - it's a behavior common to many forms of bigotry

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

"islamophobia" is inherently a dishonest word. ?

How convenient for you.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

LMGTFY..

Most Dangerous Countries For Women

And The Worst Country To Be A Woman Is...

So I agree that it's hard to collect these stats. But my intuition is that there is a high correlation between overall conditions for women and the incidence of rape.

So, your argument is "intuition"?

The claim is about rape rates. If you don't have the rates, you can't make the claim.

Why is this difficult to understand?

Once again, the claim is Everywhere that you find Muslims, the RAPE RATE is high. I have shown that this claim is not supported by evidence. I fail to see how your sources contradict that beyond the thing I already acknowledged: that rape statistics are unreliable and there are many places where rape goes under-reported.


What am I missing?

 

[icehorse]

How convenient for you.

It's anything but convenient. It's a word designed by propagandists to attempt to hide the bad ideas baked into Islam.

Each religion is a set of ideas. Many of the core ideas in Islam are divisive and hateful. It is not at all "phobic" to take issue with the misogyny, anti-Semitism, theocracy, homophobia, and "us vs. them" worldviews that are baked into Islam.

 

[icehorse]

So, your argument is "intuition"?

The claim is about rape rates. If you don't have the rates, you can't make the claim.

Why is this difficult to understand?

Once again, the claim is Everywhere that you find Muslims, the RAPE RATE is high. I have shown that this claim is not supported by evidence. I fail to see how your sources contradict that beyond the thing I already acknowledged: that rape statistics are unreliable and there are many places where rape goes under-reported.


What am I missing?

Common sense? (in this discussion, not in general)

 

[sun rise]

"islamophobia" is inherently a dishonest word. I think we should take Muslims at their word. Muslims claim that the Quran is perfect, timeless, and easy to understand. Muslims claim that Muhammad's life was the perfect role model for how to live. And, despite centuries of pressure, Muslims refuse to reform Islam's core claims.

Muhammad was frequently misogynistic, and the Quran is clearly misogynistic.

So @Jayhawker Soule, by introducing the term "islamophobic", it would seem that you're guilty of the soft bigotry of low expectations?

Bigotry. Plain and simple. Arguing from our current standards about the world of centuries ago is wrong. Look at the difference between the status of women before Muhammad (girl babies murdered etc) and afterwards.

4 Beautiful Ways the Prophet Honoured Women

They (your wives) are your garment and you are a garment for them. (2:187)

Aisha reported: I said, “O Messenger of Allah, is jihad a duty upon women?” The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Yes, jihad is a duty upon them in which there is no fighting: the Hajj and Umrah pilgrimages.”

Kathir ibn ‘Ubayd reported: Aisha, may Allah be pleased with her, if a child was born to anyone from her family, she would not ask if it was a boy or a girl. Aisha would say, “Was it created healthy?” If the answer was yes, she would say, “All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the worlds.”

Abu Salih reported: Umar ibn al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, was committed to an old, disabled blind woman who lived on the outskirts of Medina. At night he would draw water for her and manage her affairs. When he came to her one time, he found that someone else had preceded him and taken care of what she needed. So Umar came to her more than once, lest someone come to her before him, and he lied in wait. He found that it was Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, may Allah be pleased with him, who had already come to her; he was Caliph at the time.

Anas reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Whoever has three daughters, or three sisters, and he fears Allah regarding them and cares for them, he will be with me in Paradise like this,” and he held up his two fingers.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's anything but convenient. It's a word designed by propagandists to attempt to hide the bad ideas baked into Islam.

Those meanies!

 

[Raymann]

This is a pretty big claim to make, considering rape statistics are extremely difficult to compare country to country, and rape is often severely under-reported in certain countries, so what info we have is patchy at best.

Nevertheless, let's take a look at what statistics we have. In order, the countries with the highest rape rates are:

1) Botswana - 92.93
(Majority religion: Christian - 79.1%, Islam: less than 1.4%)

2) Lesotho - 82.68
(Majority religion: Christian - 93%, Islam: less than 0.2%)

3) South Africa - 72.1
(Majority religion: Christian - 68%, Islam: 2%)

4) Bermuda - 67.29
(Majority religion: Christian - 71.1%, Islam: 1%)

5) Sweden - 63.54
(Majority religion: Christian - 64.9%, Islam: 2.3%)

6) Suriname - 45.21
(Majority religion: Christian - 48.4%, Islam: 13.9%)

7) Costa Rica - 36.7
(Majority religion: Christian - 94%, Islam: 0.1%)

8) Nicaragua - 31.6
(Majority religion: Christian - 83.1%, Islam: less than 1.6%)

9) Grenada - 30.63
(Majority religion: Christian - 86.4%, Islam: less than 5.5%)

10) Saint Kitts and Nevis - 28.62
(Majority religion: Christian - 87.6%, Islam: 0.52%)

Those statistics are useless to prove or disprove my claim.
Those statistics don't specify who is committing the rapes.
For instance, we have the case of Sweden, a country where rape was very low and comparable to any other European country until the big migration wave of Muslims coming into the country happened.
Since then an explosion of rape cases started and it was 99 % of the cases caused by Muslims.
So according to your statistic, Sweden has now one of the highest rates of rape in the world, and Muslims are still a minority in Sweden but the statistics hide the problem.
The government of Sweden refuses to group the cases into races or religions to be "POLITICALLY CORRECT".
But that doesn't fool anyone, we all know that Muslims are the main culprits as they are anywhere they are.
There is no point in denying it, we would be better off facing the problem and finding solutions.
The issue is that the problem is ingrained with the religion and that is very difficult to fight.
Muslims are more interested in denying it than in finding solutions.

 

[icehorse]

Bigotry. Plain and simple. Arguing from our current standards about the world of centuries ago is wrong.

Not bigotry. Parsimony.

Again, I'm taking Muslims at their word, and you are not. I think things would be a lot better in the world if Islam reformed a bit and acknowledged that the Quran and Muhammad are NOT, in fact, timeless examples. But that has not happened, so arguments about temporal context are inconsistent with what Muslims claim. And please remember, I'm not making these claims about Islam, Muslims are.

As for the rest of your citations, remember I didn't claim that Islam was ALWAYS misogynistic, only that it was frequently so. It's also interesting to note that Islam's core scripture is often self contradictory. Again, if Muslims would loosen up a bit on the literal infallibility of their scripture things would be a lot better. But Islamic scholars have to perform ridiculous feats of mental gymnastics to square written words that are clearly of mediocre, man-made quality.

 

[icehorse]

Those meanies!

A hit, a hit, a most palpable hit!