Ratzinger: Orthodox defective, but still better than Protestants

[FFH]

In other words, even if you are outside of the Catholic church, you still may be saved. But you are saved through the Catholic church.

I doubt that many actually believe this and especially Pope Benedict...

They use this tactic to put fear in people's hearts so they will join their church and contribute more wealth which they don't need...

 

[FFH]

Salvation is a free gift to all who repent of their sins and believe in Christ's atoning sacrifice.

No church required.

Exaltaion, however, is another much more specific matter, requiring certain ordinances to be performed...

 

[Smoke]

Um...then why was MB familiar with him?

Surely you don't mean to suggest that we should only be familiar with people within our own, narrow traditions?

Well, I'd like to say I'm really that well-read, but I was Orthodox for 20 years.

 

[James the Persian]

Um...then why was MB familiar with him?

Because he was once Orthodox.

Surely you don't mean to suggest that we should only be familiar with people within our own, narrow traditions?

No, I mean to suggest that there's no reason that anyone should expect a Roman Catholic to be familiar witha Russian Orthodox saint from 19th century - they have enough saints of their own, after all. If Victor's interested and finds value in St. Thephan's words that's wonderful but I can't fault him for having been unfamiliar with him until now.

Is there some reason that you sem to strive to portray me as some narrow minded bigot even when the plain purpose of my statements as written is quite the opposite? Maybe you just don't like traditionalist Christians and so approach everything we say with an expectation of sectarianism that is so strong that you find it even where there is none?

James

 

[James the Persian]

I doubt that many actually believe this and especially Pope Benedict...

I don't doubt this at all, and it is the plain meaning of the document you seem unable to understand, so why would you doubt that that is what the Pope believes?

They use this tactic to put fear in people's hearts so they will join their church and contribute more wealth which they don't need...

I doubt that very much. We would say very similar things (as would the LDS) and I don't sea such a motivation in either position. Neither we nor the RCs tithe either so I seriously doubt that money is the issue.

James

 

[lilithu]

I doubt that many actually believe this and especially Pope Benedict...

They use this tactic to put fear in people's hearts so they will join their church and contribute more wealth which they don't need...

Dude, I'm no fan of the current Pope but I see no reason to believe that he doesn't believe this. At any rate, if the interpretation is correct, there is no reason to fear being outside the RCC so I can't see this as a scare tactic, for money or anything else.

And what's with the gazillion posts? Take a chill pill.

 

[lilithu]

Because he was once Orthodox.

Oh, ok.

No, I mean to suggest that there's no reason that anyone should expect a Roman Catholic to be familiar witha Russian Orthodox saint from 19th century - they have enough saints of their own, after all. If Victor's interested and finds value in St. Thephan's words that's wonderful but I can't fault him for having been unfamiliar with him until now.

I did not perceive that Victor was expressing a failing on his part, just an interest. I liked the quote too.

Is there some reason that you sem to strive to portray me as some narrow minded bigot even when the plain purpose of my statements as written is quite the opposite? Maybe you just don't like traditionalist Christians and so approach everything we say with an expectation of sectarianism that is so strong that you find it even where there is none?

What are you talking about? I was surprised by your response precisely because I do NOT see you as a narrow minded bigot. In fact, I like most of your posts. I'll say the same thing that I said to FFH, take a chill pill.

 

[Quiddity]

Why should you be familiar with a Russian post-Schism saint?

I shouldn't...but since I do read EO material and come across them I know some.

 

[Quiddity]

I doubt that many actually believe this and especially Pope Benedict...

They use this tactic to put fear in people's hearts so they will join their church and contribute more wealth which they don't need...

*shrug* ......what can I say?

It's seems you are already quite fixated on this supposed truth, so my attempts are futile.

Peace be with you.

 

[DeepShadow]

I would far rather we all stopped trying to reunite and started trying to work together.

Okay, that deserves so much attention I think I'll make it my sig.

I can't frubal you enough! Dogpile frubals on James the Persian!

This is exactly why the statement can improve dialogue! We need to be able to say, "I think you're mistaken, you think I'm mistaken...can we move on now? Can I give you a hand with that project to (feed the poor, improve education, go Green in ecclesiastical settings, combat ignorance, reduce abortions, promote world peace, reduce crime and poverty, etc.)"

When are we going to bury the hatchet and get to the work we've been commanded to do?! When we stand before judgement, how are we going to account for all this time wasted on defining Christianity at the cost of doing Christianity?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Okay, that deserves so much attention I think I'll make it my sig.

I can't frubal you enough! Dogpile frubals on James the Persian!

This is exactly why the statement can improve dialogue! We need to be able to say, "I think you're mistaken, you think I'm mistaken...can we move on now? Can I give you a hand with that project to (feed the poor, improve education, go Green in ecclesiastical settings, combat ignorance, reduce abortions, promote world peace, reduce crime and poverty, etc.)"

When are we going to bury the hatchet and get to the work we've been commanded to do?! When we stand before judgement, how are we going to account for all this time wasted on defining Christianity at the cost of doing Christianity?

*gives standing ovation*

Bravo, DS!! I am truly humbled and inspired!




Peace,
Mystic

 

[FFH]

it is the plain meaning of the document you seem unable to understand, so why would you doubt that that is what the Pope believes?

Because he needs more people to join the Catholic faith in order to pay the massive heating and electric bills for the Vatican city not to mention their police force, postal workers, medical team and other misc. staff.. oh and their stomachs need feeding...

The Vatican needs to go...

They need more money

I doubt that very much. Neither we nor the RCs tithe either so I seriously doubt that money is the issue.

All churches collect money, via collection plates or or tithing slips or whatever means they can, like Salvation Army, United Way, etc...

The tithes and offerings are the Lords...

Are some organizations in it for the money or to save souls ???

 

[Storm]

Because he needs more people to join the Catholic faith in order to pay the massive heating and electric bills for the Vatican city not to mention their police force and postal workers and medical team and other misc. staff.. oh and their stomachs need feeding...

The Vatican needs to go...


All churches collect money, via collection plates or or tithing slips or whatever means they can, like Salvation Army, United Way, etc...

The tithes and offerings are the Lords...

Are some organizations in it for the money or to save souls ???

If, as you say, all churches collect money, why do you single out the RCC for criticism?

 

[athanasius]

Because he needs more people to join the Catholic faith in order to pay the massive heating and electric bills for the Vatican city not to mention their police force and postal workers and medical team and other misc. staff.. oh and their stomachs need feeding...

The Vatican needs to go...


All churches collect money, via collection plates or donation tactics...

The tithes and offerings are the Lords...

Are some organizations in it for the money or to save souls ???

Actually our Church is massive. The largest Christian church in the world. 1.2 Billion members worldwide and rapidly growing. We are gaining far more people than we are loosing by numbers. So its not a worrysome money problem. That has nothing to do with it. Actually John Paul II taugh the same things that Benedict taught about the protestant churches not being real churches. This came out in a document in 2001 called Dominus Iesus. St Ignatius of antioch taught the same things in the year 110 Ad. He was taught by the apostles John himself. This has been ancient Catholic teaching that goes all the way back to the time when the church had little to no money at all. So its not a money or fear issue it is about apostolic doctrine. We(Catholics) have built and operated the most hospitals, orphanages, and shelters, and schools more than any other relgion inthe world that am aware of. They(the bills) get paid by the people out of love(For Christ and his church) not fear. We put our faith into action. We also have missionaries world wide and thousands of adult converts a year. We are in it to save souls, and to also help the poor and weak and helpless people as we have been doing for 2000 years. We don't even pass around plates at our church. And we do not tithe. We make good will offerings at mass if we have money to give. We give what we can out of love for Jesus and his Church on earth.


Peace be with you always
Athanasius

 

[FFH]

Okay, that deserves so much attention I think I'll make it my sig.

I can't frubal you enough! Dogpile frubals on James the Persian!

This is exactly why the statement can improve dialogue! We need to be able to say, "I think you're mistaken, you think I'm mistaken...can we move on now? Can I give you a hand with that project to (feed the poor, improve education, go Green in ecclesiastical settings, combat ignorance, reduce abortions, promote world peace, reduce crime and poverty, etc.)"

When are we going to bury the hatchet and get to the work we've been commanded to do?! When we stand before judgement, how are we going to account for all this time wasted on defining Christianity at the cost of doing Christianity?

Feeding the hungry, is pure religion, and if you are a member of the LDS faith, which you are, you already know we (members) give tons of money and time to the poor and the needy and otherwise afflicted, above and beyond our tithes...not to mention missionary work and all the time and money donated for that effort...

We are already doing all those things and most if not all of our members have given thousands and thousands of our hard earned money to the church, to the poor and needy and to our own missionaries and most if not all have given their time and talents to the church to no end...

Also keep in mind these words of Christ...

Matthew 10: 34

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

The sword will fall heavy in the near days to come, when this issue will escelate beyond reason....

 

[Quiddity]

Because he needs more people to join the Catholic faith in order to pay the massive heating and electric bills for the Vatican city not to mention their police force, postal workers, medical team and other misc. staff.. oh and their stomachs need feeding...

The Vatican needs to go...


All churches collect money, via collection plates or or tithing slips or whatever means they can, like Salvation Army, United Way, etc...

The tithes and offerings are the Lords...

Are some organizations in it for the money or to save souls ???

Consider yourself blessed to have other LDS members who know better then this.

 

[FFH]

Consider yourself blessed to have other LDS members who know better then this.

I'm not talking about the Catholic church, I'm talking about the Vatican, which was established in recent years.

According to Revelation 17, God has an issue with the Vatican and the last two popes, Ratzinger and the last and final Pope..

Read Revelation 17 and look at the history and characteristics of the Vatican and all who rule within it's city walls and you will see it is described in Revelation 17.

Time will prove this to be true...

I have no issue with Catholics, who are my brother's and sister's in Christ, and I've only worshipped in one other church other than LDS, and that was a Catholic church, and my wife is a former Catholic...

The issue is not with the church, it's the Vatican, and the final last two Popes, Ratzinger being the first of the final two, who bring about the destruction of the Vatican, by their allies, who turn on them in the end...

The wicked will destroy the wicked in the end (last days).

The issue is not with you if you believe I am saved outside your church, but the issue is with all who believe I am not saved outside your church....

Whoever falls for this lie does not understand salvation and I truly feel sorry for these types of people, including those in my own faith...

There is also salvation outside the LDS church obviously, which runs throughout ALL christian religions, including Catholicism....

 

[FFH]

If you've ever been inside the Vatican there are gold painted frescos, marble ceilings, walls and floors, priceless art and other religious artifacts...

The wealth displayed there is nothing less than stunning...

I've walked the endless halls of the Vatican for a day and could not see it all...

It puts the Louvre in Paris to shame...which I have also been through on two different occasions, while touring through Europe, in which we were able to see all there is to see in one day, unlike the Vatican, which would take several days..

I need to bring up a U-tube video of this....

 

[athanasius]

If you've every been inside the Vatican there are gold painted frescos, marble ceilings, walss and floors, priceless art and other religious artifacts...

The wealtht displlayed there is nothing less than stunning...

I've walked the endless halls of the Vatican for a day and could not see it all...

It puts the Louvre in Paris to shame...which I have also been through on two different occasions, while touring through Europe, in which we were able to see all there is to see in one day, unlike the Vatican, which would take several days..

I need to bring up a U-tube video of this....

Do all Mormons take this late protestant view of the Papacy and the Book of Revelation that your claiming? It sounds like you have been duped by Christian fundamentalist like Jack Chick and Tim Lahay?? I have never heard this from any other Mormon before??

 

[Quiddity]

Do all Mormons take this late protestant view of the Papacy and the Book of Revelation that your claiming? It sounds like you have been duped by Christian fundamentalist like Jack Chick and Tim Lahay?? I have never heard this from any other Mormon before??

Thank God...me either.