Reality: What is it?

[godnotgod]

I agree. It is sparks of Brahman under the illusion of being separate.

OK, but the question is WHY. Any thoughts?

 

[godnotgod]

Then while "awareness" and verb are defined differently, the narrative is something else. We are never free from the narrative as long as there is a question to be answered.

If the answer to the question is directly seen, without thought, without a 'see-er of the seen', then isn't there freedom from the narrative in that case?

The problem of freedom may not have to do with the question, but with the concept of a self that is involved in the narrative.

Also, would you define 'narrative' the way you intend it?

 

[godnotgod]

It is intellect that knows this by analogy. Eye cannot see itself. And this is also known intellectually by questioning "Who will know the knower?" If we drill down to all layers of subject-object pairs, the query boils down to who is the subject of "I am"? Eventually, nothing else is there to fall back upon, only the awareness remains. This is the intellectual part.

This query, if meditated upon earnestly (by the ego-intellect itself), reveals that we are awareness itself. We are not the sense organs or the mind that are objects to an unknown subject, which cannot be known as other than self. And it is awareness itself.

Only this much I am able to say. Nothing further to add from me.

So to be clear: is there a self that is aware, or is there only awareness itself, without a knower of awareness called 'I'?

 

[George-ananda]

OK, but the question is WHY. Any thoughts?

Yep, I have thoughts on that too. It is creative act of Brahman. What does one do that has everything? Create art. Is this not more interesting than a static state existence?

 

[atanu]

It can with a mirror.

Agreed. In Hinduism, the seen states are called Pratibhaashika -- reflected or apparent.

But wait. Consciousness is homogeneous and partless. What will it reflect? And where will it? There is nothing else.

(Offered as a hint: So, how in our case we see nothing in deep sleep and then see a mental self and a mental world in dream and further a gross self and a gross world in waking state? So, what is being reflected onto what? What critical event triggers knowing of objects?)

And why is that a valid method for reaching the truth? Do all people, when they do this, reach the same conclusion? How do you know that this isn't just another illusion?

a) You can intellectually drill through all possible subject-object pairs and determine where it stops. Does it stop at brain chemicals?

b) More or less yes.

c) There are many prescriptions. Eventually one must know or realise the self that knows. The Who Am I query is said to be a good one towards this.

Many people have through all kalpa-s and from all areas endorsed this. This teaching is enshrined in Scripture that have lasted through kalpa-s. I have reason from personal experience to have developed faith on "Know Thyself".

 

[atanu]

So to be clear: is there a self that is aware, or is there only awareness itself, without a knower of awareness called 'I'?

You better find out and tell me.

 

[Polymath257]

Agreed. In Hinduism, the seen states are called Pratibhaashika -- reflected or apparent.

But wait. Consciousness is homogeneous and partless. What will it reflect? And where will it? There is nothing else.

What makes you think consciousness is homogeneous and partless?

(Offered as a hint: So, how in our case we see nothing in deep sleep and then see a mental self and a mental world in dream and further a gross self and a gross world in waking state? So, what is being reflected onto what? What critical event triggers knowing of objects?)

What critical event triggers *awareness*? Good question!

a) You can intellectually drill through all possible subject-object pairs and determine where it stops. Does it stop at brain chemicals?

No, at brain processes.

b) More or less yes.

c) There are many prescriptions. Eventually one must know or realise the self that knows. The Who Am I query is said to be a good one towards this.

Many people have through all kalpa-s and from all areas endorsed this. This teaching is enshrined in Scripture that have lasted through kalpa-s. I have reason from personal experience to have developed faith on "Know Thyself".

And those on other paths reach different conclusions. But I agree people can have these experiences. They are states the brain can be in. That doesn't mean they are valid descriptions of reality.

 

[godnotgod]

Yep, I have thoughts on that too. It is creative act of Brahman. What does one do that has everything? Create art. Is this not more interesting than a static state existence?

So if the world is none other than Brahman, playing itself as 'the world' out of a creative act, why do we, who are also Brahman, not realize that reality?

 

[atanu]

What makes you think consciousness is homogeneous and partless?

We will take it up later.

What critical event triggers *awareness*? Good question!

It is indeed a good and fundamental question. It is something like what triggers potential to become kinetic? In Hinduism, like in Plato, Kant or Schopenhauer, the object of experience is not the thing in itself.

No, at brain processes.

How do you know that? Brain processes know that?

And those on other paths reach different conclusions. But I agree people can have these experiences.[/quotes]

Yes, sure. Phenomenal sensual experiences are varied and explanations of those are tentative and called myths. But "Who has the experience" goes to self alone. Self is not a myth. There is actually no experience then. How can self that experiences objects, experience itself as an object? How can subject experience the itselft as an object?

[quotes]They are states the brain can be in. That doesn't mean they are valid descriptions of reality.

It does not interest me a bit whether different brain states or some other thing causes erection of penis .. or whatever. What interests me is "Who has the experience"? Brain states have the experiences?
...

If you wish we may stop here since my consistent view is that to know the taste of mango one must eat it.

 

[George-ananda]

So if the world is none other than Brahman, playing itself as 'the world' out of a creative act, why do we, who are also Brahman, not realize that reality?

Maya is a self-imposed illusion. A creative act/play.

Don’t we appreciate plays/movies when we willingly self-impose the illusion for a time that the actors are really their characters?

 

[godnotgod]

Maya is a self-imposed illusion. A creative act/play.

Don’t we appreciate plays/movies when we willingly self-impose the illusion for a time that the actors are really their characters?

So, in terms of the topic, then, the characters and the world they play in only seems real to them, but the actor playing them is actually the true reality.

 

[George-ananda]

So, in terms of the topic, then, the characters and the world they play in only seems real to them, but the actor playing them is actually the true reality.

That sounds kind of right.

 

[godnotgod]

That sounds kind of right.

....but That which is playing itself as all the different forms of The Universe, has deliberately forgotten that it is, in reality, The Supreme Identity.

I know you realize just how compelling and fabulous this entire scenario actually is.

 

[godnotgod]

....but That which is playing itself as all the different forms of The Universe, has deliberately forgotten that it is, in reality, The Supreme Identity.

I know you realize just how compelling and fabulous this entire scenario actually is.

 

[Craig Sedok]

To question it means you are ready . The real question is whether you are ready to take the next step. Two forward and one back. God is and lord is a jackal stalks and stand strong. Weak are taken

 

[Roshan]

Is what we call 'reality' the world as we perceive it, or the consciousness with which we perceive it?

I think it will take time to perceive reality. Coz with our few senses it is hard. We are limited. But we can if we try. See the great yogis.

 

[Roshan]

Reality is what it is. The brain doesn't always get it right.

Yep. If we know then there will be no confusion. But it is very hard. I think we are pushed to know the truth by the life suffering.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Is what we call 'reality' the world as we perceive it, or the consciousness with which we perceive it?

Our consciousness can interpret reality, of course we could philosophically consider what reality is for a rock.

 

[Roshan]

So what do u say what reality is? Ur perception plz.

 

[godnotgod]

I think it will take time to perceive reality. Coz with our few senses it is hard. We are limited. But we can if we try. See the great yogis.

All the great yogis have transcended perceptual reality in order to experience Ultimate Reality, having realized the pitfalls of perception. So what kind of mind do you suppose they are employing to do so?