Reality: What is it?

[godnotgod]

Brahman is conscious in a way absolutely different from human consciousness. It is the play of fundamental interaction of four (or perhaps five) forces of nature.

So first of all, the Brahman you give credence to is conscious, and it manifests itself as the interplay of several forces of nature. Is that accurate, so far, according to your view?

Thanks for the physics lesson.

 

[Aupmanyav]

As I said, conscious but in a way absolutely different from human consciousness. It would not understand good or evil. It would not understand what we, religions or perceptors of religions bandy about it.

 

[Polymath257]

What is 'possible' is only that more and more data leads to a hypothesis, that, when tested, remains consistent and stable, so that predictions can be made about phenomena, none of which reveals the true nature of Reality. So, no. Science cannot show us the true nature of Reality; only its behavior and characteristics, leading to prediction. It can't tell us what the Universe actually IS.

Outside of observation, I don't think there is a lot of meaning to give to the phrase 'the true nature of Reality'. if the concept cannot be tested, I regard it as a nice fiction.

The universe *is* the universe. We learn about the universe through observation and reason. That is *all* we have for figuring out what is around us.

 

[ajay0]

Godnotgod. While talking about Brahman here, not everyone here does have the right understanding of it, due to deficiencies in scholarship and training. If you ask every Tom, Peter and Harry, you will have three different opinions altogether. However, facts and opinions are not the same.

Atanu and Tattvaprahav in the Hinduism forums are authentic scholars in Advaita Vedanta and nature of Brahman, and it would be prudent on your part to confine your discussions on Brahman with them, or else you or anyone else here can be easily led to more never-ending confusions and ignorance.

 

[ajay0]

I have earlier stated that through the testimony of ancient, medieval and modern enlightened masters that pure consciousness is of an eternal, omnipresent nature and is not transient, and which does not vanish completely upon deep sleep or physical death.

The following have also been testified to by enlightened masters in modern times like Ramana Maharshi, Eckhart Tolle, Gary Weber and many others.....


Existence or consciousness is the only reality. – Sri Ramana Maharshi


When you look at a tree or a human being in stillness, who is looking? Something deeper than the person. Consciousness is looking at its creation. - Eckhart Tolle

An account of enlightenment by Gary Weber.

Happiness Beyond Thought

Somehow, I happened upon the teachings of Ramana Maharshi. I began looking in the other direction, back inside at what it was that was doing all of these practices and causing all of this confusion. One day, realizing that enlightenment was impossible as long as there was an “I” insisting on being present for the exciting conclusion as well as keeping all of its attachments, I surrendered completely. Everything was surrendered, everything; my “self”, possessions, job, corner office, parking space, options, house, attachments, everything. I said deeply and sincerely from the bottom of my being, that I had to know the Truth, even if it cost my life. With that surrender, I could feel something shift.

Shortly afterwards, doing an asana that I had done thousands of times before, the “I” blew out like a candle in the wind, and a page turned. I went into the asana one way and came out transformed. Consciousness shifted completely and irrevocably. Thought stopped as a continuous activity and stillness and presence were there at a level I could never have imagined. I realized that I was not this body, nor these thoughts, but the undying consciousness behind them. I saw that everything was perfect just as it was and that everything was somehow inside me and was in fact, all One. Surprisingly, I also realized that everything was God. - Gary Weber

So one can see enlightened masters in ancient, medieval and modern times testifying that they were able to perceive consciousness as the only reality after enlightenment.

Reason and observation may not be able to comprehend this phenomenon at this point of time, but there is no reason to ignore it as an impossibility.

The Advaitan position on consciousness also has backers in quantum physicists like Erwin Schrodinger....

'The plurality that we perceive is only an appearance; it is not real. Vedantic philosophy... has sought to clarify it by a number of analogies, one of the most attractive being the many-faceted crystal which, while showing hundreds of little pictures of what is in reality a single existent object, does not really multiply that object...'

The famous quantum physicist Werner Heisenburg also opined about how Advaita Vedantic philosophy, through discussion with Rabindranath Tagore, gave him much needed moral support at a time of great uncertainty..

'After these conversations with Tagore some of the ideas that had seemed so crazy suddenly made much more sense. That was a great help for me.'

 

[godnotgod]

As I said, conscious but in a way absolutely different from human consciousness. It would not understand good or evil. It would not understand what we, religions or perceptors of religions bandy about it.

OK, so we agree that Brahman is conscious, but that there is something different about it than human consciousness*. The nature of Brahman has been referred to as being Unconditioned. So would it be fair to say, as it would agree with your view of Brahman, that human consciousness is conditioned consciousness, while that of Brahman is unconditioned?

*Interesting to note here that Buddhism says that Ordinary Mind and Buddha Mind are not different.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So would it be fair to say, as it would agree with your view of Brahman, that human consciousness is conditioned consciousness, while that of Brahman is unconditioned?

*Interesting to note here that Buddhism says that Ordinary Mind and Buddha Mind are not different.

That is 'shabda-jaala' (maze of words). Human consciousness and the consciousness of what exists in the universe (physical energy) cannot be spoken in one sentence. Did Buddha say what you are claiming here? They are two completely different things.

 

[godnotgod]

Human consciousness and the consciousness of what exists in the universe (physical energy) cannot be spoken in one sentence.

Question is quite simple: Is the consciousness of Brahman unconditioned or conditioned? Can you answer?

Did Buddha say what you are claiming here? They are two completely different things.

Are they? Is the mnd that is deluded the same mind that sees the truth?

Is the mind that dreams the same mind that awakens?

Is the jiva that seeks Brahman, not Brahman itself?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Question is quite simple: Is the consciousness of Brahman unconditioned or conditioned? Can you answer?

Are they? Is the mind that is deluded the same mind that sees the truth? Is the mind that dreams the same mind that awakens? Is the jiva that seeks Brahman, not Brahman itself?

Unconditioned, and always remains so.

Brahman constitutes all things, whether living or nonliving. Evolution has given mind to the living. Even a single-cell amoeba has a mind (in a sort of way). It knows what to eat and what to avoid, though it does not have a 'brain' as such. That is a chemical process. In humans, the process is more complicated. Our responses are conditioned by the process of growing up (in the womb and later outside it) and the information fed to the brain by the sense organs which have serious limitations (though they are enough for our material existence). Yeah, whether we are in a sleep/dream state or awake, we have the same brain. By better analysis, we can eliminate this conditioning and come to know what we truly are. That is jnana, enlightenment, bodhi, nirvana, mukti, salvation, deliverance or whatever you choose to call it.

 

[godnotgod]

Unconditioned, and always remains so.

Then it is pure, is that not so?

Brahman constitutes all things, whether living or nonliving.

That being the case, then, that which is ordinary and mundane is, in reality, none other than Brahman itself. Brahman's appearance as 'the world' is maya.

Evolution has given mind to the living.

....and Brahman, being consciousness which constitutes all things, includes evolution. Therefore, brains ultimately emerged from consciousness; consciousness did not emerge from brains.

The Big Bang was an event in consciousness, outside of Time, Space, and Causation, or, as Vivekenanda has said:

"The Universe is [in reality] The Absolute, as seen through the glass [conditioned mind] of Time, Space, and Causation" (brackets mine).

 

[Aupmanyav]

Then it is pure, is that not so?
That being the case, then, that which is ordinary and mundane is, in reality, none other than Brahman itself. Brahman's appearance as 'the world' is maya.
....and Brahman, being consciousness which constitutes all things, includes evolution. Therefore, brains ultimately emerged from consciousness; consciousness did not emerge from brains.

The Big Bang was an event in consciousness, outside of Time, Space, and Causation, or, as Vivekenanda has said:

"The Universe is [in reality] The Absolute, as seen through the glass [conditioned mind] of Time, Space, and Causation" (brackets mine).

I do not know what do you mean by pure. All things are pure, there is nothing that can be defiled and with what it will be defiled? Because everything that exists is Brahman.
True, appearances are 'maya', illusions, reality of a lower order known as 'Vyavaharika' in Advaita (Pragmatic, that is what we have to do with).
Evolution also is 'maya', it is the 'Vyavaharika' truth, the lesser truth. Brains emerged from Brahman.
Why are you bringing in 'consciousness' here? We have yet not talked about consciousness.
The problem is that you mystify 'consciousness' and 'mind'. Being 'conscious' means that the brain is ready and capable of registering the inputs which come from the senses. Brain is the engine, mind is the process and thoughts are the result of that process.
Big-Bang was an event in 'Vyavaharika', just like 'evolution' which came up later.
If you ask for a scientific answer, we know that 'inflation' was an event in time. Beyond that we are getting into a singularity, about which we do not know yet. But we are likely to know something about it, because we have 'Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation' (CMB or CMBR).

"The cosmic microwave background (CMB, CMBR) is electromagnetic radiation as a remnant from an early stage of the universe in Big Bang cosmology. In older literature, the CMB is also variously known as cosmic microwave background radiation (CMBR) or "relic radiation". The CMB is a faint cosmic background radiation filling all space that is an important source of data on the early universe because it is the oldest electromagnetic radiation in the universe, dating to the epoch of recombination." Cosmic microwave background - Wikipedia

"In cosmology, recombination refers to the epoch at which charged electrons and protons first became bound to form electrically neutral hydrogen atoms. Recombination occurred about 378,000 years after the Big Bang (at a redshift of z = 1100). The word "recombination" is misleading, since the big bang theory doesn't posit that protons and electrons had been combined before, but the name exists for historical reasons since it was named before the Big Bang hypothesis became the primary theory of the creation of the universe." Recombination (cosmology) - Wikipedia

I have no problem with what Swami Vivekananda said.

 

[godnotgod]

I do not know what do you mean by pure. All things are pure, there is nothing that can be defiled, because everything is Brahman.

By 'pure', I mean 'clear'. Hold up a distorted glass pane to an object, and it appears distorted to the mind, but in reality, the object itself is not distorted. The rational mind is a distorted (ie conditioned) glass through which we see Reality. We do not see that the Universe is, in fact, The Absolute; we see it as something else. The Absolute itself (Brahman) is free of all conditioning. It is pure.

Brains emerged from Brahman.

...Brahman, which is consciousness.

Why are you bringing in 'consciousness' here? We have yet not talked about consciousness.

I thought we were in agreement that Brahman is consciousness. You had stated that:

"Brahman is conscious in a way absolutely different from human consciousness."

We further agreed that the consciousness of Brahman is unconditioned, unlike that of human consciousness.*

The problem is that you mystify 'consciousness' and 'mind'.

No, not at all. It is YOU who 'mystifies'. I use the word 'mystical' only to suggest union with Brahman, which is what Hinduism teaches: "the jiva becomes Brahman"

*Actually, the consciousness of Brahman and that of humans is exactly the same consciousness, as pointed out earlier. It's just that human consciousness is conditioned consciousness, whereas that of Brahman is unconditioned. That they are the same is exactly why the jiva can 'become' Brahman. Actually, nothing 'becomes' Brahman, since all things already ARE Brahman. The jiva simply comes to the realization of 'tat tvam asi'.

Brahman is manifesting itself as the world, which includes humans. IOW, Brahman is playing itself as something other than Brahman in the game of lila and maya. We live in the state of Identification, as the illusory individual self, or 'jiva'. Realization that we are none other than Brahman dispels the notion of the individual self, a fiction.

 

[Willamena]

Which is 'wrong view', right?

It's an affirming view.

 

[godnotgod]

It's an affirming view.

We either see things as they are, or as they are not. Seeing things as they are is to see Reality as it is; seeing things as they are not, is to see Reality as something else.

"The Universe is The Absolute, as seen throught the glass of Time, Space, and Causation"
Vivekenanda

If we fail to see The Universe for what it it actually is, ie 'The Absolute', will will see it as something else:

"Now Swami Vivekananda's statement that the Universe is the Absolute seen through the screen of time, space and causation allows us to get some interesting information, albeit in negative terms, about what he calls the Absolute. Since it is not in time, it cannot be changing. Change takes place only in time. And since it is not in space, it must be undivided, because division and separation occur only in space. And since it is therefore one and undivided, it must also be infinite, since there is no "other" to limit it. Now "changeless," "infinite," and "undivided" are negative statements, but they will suffice. We can trace the physics of our Universe from these three negative statements. If we don't see the Absolute as what it is, we'll see it as something else. If we don't see it as changeless, infinite, and undivided, we'll see it as changing, finite, and divided, since in this case there is no other else. There is no other way to mistake the changeless except as changing. So we see a Universe which is changing all the time, made of minuscule particles, and divided into atoms."

The Equations of Maya

 

[atanu]

IMO, it is weird to use consciousness/awareness (that is here and now) to deny it at some imaginary past and imagine it coming up at some time past. All these theories of creation are based upon consciousness.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The Absolute itself (Brahman) is free of all conditioning. It is pure.
...Brahman, which is consciousness.
I thought we were in agreement that Brahman is consciousness. You had stated that: "Brahman is conscious in a way absolutely different from human consciousness."
We further agreed that the consciousness of Brahman is unconditioned, unlike that of human consciousness.*
No, not at all. It is YOU who 'mystifies'. I use the word 'mystical' only to suggest union with Brahman, which is what Hinduism teaches: "the jiva becomes Brahman"
*Actually, the consciousness of Brahman and that of humans is exactly the same consciousness, as pointed out earlier. It's just that human consciousness is conditioned consciousness, whereas that of Brahman is unconditioned. That they are the same is exactly why the jiva can 'become' Brahman. Actually, nothing 'becomes' Brahman, since all things already ARE Brahman. The jiva simply comes to the realization of 'tat tvam asi'.
Brahman is manifesting itself as the world, which includes humans. IOW, Brahman is playing itself as something other than Brahman in the game of lila and maya. We live in the state of Identification, as the illusory individual self, or 'jiva'. Realization that we are none other than Brahman dispels the notion of the individual self, a fiction.

If Brhman is 'pure' then all things in the universe are 'pure', because all things are constituted by Brahman and Brahman only.
That is where the problem exists. 'Brahman has consciousness' and 'Brahman is consciousness' are two different statements. Brahman has consciousness (a property) but is more than that. Because if it was just consciousness, it would not have been able to transform into energy/material. Who has the property of being conscious? It is 'physical enhergy' which has conciousness.
I agreed to 'Brahman has consciousness'. I have never agreed to 'Brahman is consciousness'.
'Jiva' or 'Ajiva' (non-living) all are Brahman. Because of the presence of mind, 'jiva' and the way its senses inform its brain, it gets enveloped by 'maya'. By understanding the process of 'maya', humans (though just a few) can get out of 'maya's tentacles.
Now who said that (your post, underline mine)? I did not. I agree to the last sentence of the paragraph.
Brahman is not playing any game, like me, he is not a gamer (again your post, underline mine). Brahman is not doing anything. It is just existing. Actually the 'jiva', under the influence of its mind is seeing it that way (leela, maya). I again agree to the last sentence of the paragraph.

 

[Aupmanyav]

There is no other way to mistake the changeless except as changing. So we see a Universe which is changing all the time, made of minuscule particles, and divided into atoms."

Mr. Dobson does not understand the whole of it. Brahman is thoroughly 'Quantum'. It is indeterminate. I have been called for breakfast now, when I return, I will continue in this post only to explain 'change' and 'changelessness' of Brahman.

To continue..
"We know it happens, we know it happens everywhere, we know it happens in every fraction of Planck's moment, but we cannot pin-point it, we cannot know what it is at a given point of time."

Brahman is such, always changing. Why we call it unchanging is because it never stops changing. That 'Brahman never changes' is a static view. 'Brahman is always changing' is a dynamic view. That is 'Quantum Mechanics', that is Heidelberg's theory of uncertainty, etc. It is happening with every atom in the whole universe, every moment of time, since the beginning (?) till the end (?), even in all the atoms that constitute our body. This is Aupmanyav's "Higher (Truer) Advaita".

 

[godnotgod]

If Brhman is 'pure' then all things in the universe are 'pure', because all things are constituted by Brahman and Brahman only. That is where the problem exists.

Brahman is maya, but the view from maya does not see Brahman as it is. It is an unclear view, because it does not see Brahman accurately. Conditioned view is not a clear, or pure, view.

'Brahman has consciousness' and 'Brahman is consciousness' are two different statements

.

But Brahman is attributeless, so it cannot 'have' consciousness as a characteristic or property. But even if true, then what is this 'Brahman' that 'has' consciousness? It's like saying that a tree is made of wood. A tree is not made of wood; it IS wood itself. In the same vein, Brahman does not HAVE consciousness, it IS consciousness. You are separating consciousness from what Brahman actually is.

Brahman has consciousness (a property) but is more than that. Because if it was just consciousness, it would not have been able to transform into energy/material.

Who says? Theoretical physics is telling us that the Quantum Vacuum is 'absolutely nothing', and out of this 'nothing', comes everything. In addition, this 'everything', or phenomena, according to the Heart Sutra, has no inherent self-nature. That is to say, it is empty of self. Even emptiness itself (Sunyata) is empty of self.

Who has the property of being conscious? It is 'physical energy' which has consciousness.

No. Brahman is manifesting itself AS physical energy; AS the material world with all its forms. Nothing 'has' consciousness; it is consciousness manifested as all things. Consciousness permeates all things. Brahman itself is invisible, odorless, tasteless, formless, unconditioned, unborn, without attributes, and completely silent. There is no 'who' that has a property called 'consciousness'. Consciousness exists without self. It is Being, rather than Existence, although it manifests as existing in Time and Space, an illusion.

I agreed to 'Brahman has consciousness'. I have never agreed to 'Brahman is consciousness'.
'Jiva' or 'Ajiva' (non-living) all are Brahman. Because of the presence of mind, 'jiva' and the way its senses inform its brain, it gets enveloped by 'maya'. By understanding the process of 'maya', humans (though just a few) can get out of 'maya's tentacles.

One cannot 'get out of maya's tentacles, because maya is illusion, so there are no tentacles to get out of. Once that is realized, one is free. The more one struggles to extricate oneself from maya, the more entangled will one become. That is the irony.

Brahman is not playing any game, like me, he is not a gamer (again your post, underline mine). Brahman is not doing anything. It is just existing. Actually the 'jiva', under the influence of its mind is seeing it that way (leela, maya). I again agree to the last sentence of the paragraph.

You are playing a game but are not aware of it. The game is known as The Master Game, whose goal is Awakening, just as members of the Abrahamic religions are playing The Religion Game, whose goal is Salvation. But just the fact that Brahman is maya, brought about by the play called 'leela', is the game of Hide and Seek, in which Brahman is hiding within all its myriad forms throughout the entire Universe.

So do you suppose that Brahman's manifestation as 'The Universe' is a serious affair?

 

[Aupmanyav]

'Brahman is maya, but the view from maya does not see Brahman as it is. It is an unclear view, because it does not see Brahman accurately. Conditioned view is not a clear, or pure, view.'
n the same vein, Brahman does not HAVE consciousness, it IS consciousness. You are separating consciousness from what Brahman actually is.'
'Who says? Theoretical physics is telling us that the Quantum Vacuum is 'absolutely nothing', and out of this 'nothing', comes everything.'
'No. Brahman is manifesting itself AS physical energy; AS the material world with all its forms.'
'The more one struggles to extricate oneself from maya, the more entangled will one become. That is the irony.'
'But just the fact that Brahman is maya, brought about by the play called 'leela', is the game of Hide and Seek, in which Brahman is hiding within all its myriad forms throughout the entire Universe.'
'So do you suppose that Brahman's manifestation as 'The Universe' is a serious affair?'

True, but we have the apparatus that can tear 'maya's veil, the brain and its potentialities.
IMHO, Brahman has attributes. Being conscious is one (Action at a distance - Wikipedia), constant never-ending change is another (Feynman diagram - Wikipedia - 'In theoretical physics, Feynman diagrams are pictorial representations of the mathematical expressions describing the behavior of subatomic particles').
In that case kindly give me hint how it changes into energy/material? Brahman is not 'consciousness itself'.
It is one of the possibilities that non-existence is just another phase of existence. But science has not yet proved it. However, 'Nasadiya Sukta' of RigVeda did talk in that sense 3,000 years ago.
"Sages who searched with their heart's thought discovered the existent's kinship in the non-existent."
Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXIX. Creation.
If it was just 'consciousness', then it would not come into forms. If you think that it does, then kindly give me hint as to how?
In that case, there would not have been any enlightenment, any 'jnana'. Perhaps you do not realize that there are ways to get out of 'maya's entanglement.
Brahman is not 'maya'. 'Maya' is the result of existence of Brahman. If Brahman is hiding then it is surely different from 'maya'.
Brahman's manifestation can be a serious topic of discussion for some, not so for the others who disregard the 'Absolute' (Paramarthika) for the 'Pragmatic' (Vyavaharika). Perfectly OK with me. My son would not care for all this.

 

[godnotgod]

Brahman has attributes. Being conscious is one, constant never-ending change is another

'constant, never-ending change' is maya. Your attention is caught by the foreground of existence, which is seeming 'change', just as the fish, born into the sea, is caught by the foreground, which is food and predator, and which does not know that he is in the sea. But you are forgetting the background of existence, which never changes. You can only notice change against a background of no-change. All such 'change' emerges from this background of no-change. The world of shadows and appeaances that is Everything emerges from Nothing, and returns to Nothing. Nothingness is the fundamental reality. It is Pure Consciousness. It is formless Brahman out of which all forms are manifested.

1st observer: 'the flag is moving'
2nd observer: 'no, the wind is moving'
3rd observer: 'wrong! both flag and wind are moving!
passerby: 'all wrong!' Your MINDS are moving!'
Zen source

In order to posses an attribute called 'consciousness', Brahman must already be conscious. Otherwise, what is the origin of consciousness if attributes must have consciousness in place in order to come into existence? You yourself stated that the consciousness of Brahman is unlike that of human consciousness. That is because it is unconditioned. It is beginingless.

In that case kindly give me hint how it changes into energy/material?

It doesn't. Brahman does not 'become' the world, just as gold does not 'become' the gold chain. The gold chain is, and always has been pure gold. Do not confuse form for things. 'Energy/material' is the play of Brahman's maya. Brahman is manifesting itself AS 'The World'.

Brahman is not 'consciousness itself'.

Brahman is the cause of the world. How can the world have come into being unless consciousness were not already in place from the very beginning?

It is one of the possibilities that non-existence is just another phase of existence. But science has not yet proved it. However, 'Nasadiya Sukta' of RigVeda did talk in that sense 3,000 years ago.
"Sages who searched with their heart's thought discovered the existent's kinship in the non-existent."
Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXIX. Creation.
If it was just 'consciousness', then it would not come into forms. If you think that it does, then kindly give me hint as to how?
In that case, there would not have been any enlightenment, any 'jnana'. Perhaps you do not realize that there are ways to get out of 'maya's entanglement.

Existence and non-existence are a duality. Together they are simply 'Now you see it; now you don't'. It is just a play of Brahman. But Brahman is beyond all dualities.

"Changeless, underlying the world of change...
...Though the three gunas emanate from him,
He is infinite and invisible.
Though all the galaxies emerge from him,
He is without form and unconditioned...
...Imperishable, changeless, beyond cause...
...Brahman is beyond all duality,
Beyond the reach of thinker and of thought."

excerpted from:
The Tejobindu Upanishad (The Shining Self)

Brahman is non-dual in nature, and is Pure Consciousness or Pure Being beyond the duality of existence/non-existence.

When you are dreaming, it is consciousness that is creating the dream-forms, is it not? In fact, there is no actual 'creation' of anything real in a dream. When we awaken, we think the material world to be real, because of our perception of it. But it is just a dream of a higher caliber than ordinary dreams. Brahman, or Pure Consciousness, does not 'come into forms' as you have stated; Brahman is simply playing itself AS all forms. 'All forms' are maya; the world is maya; Brahman is the world. There has been no change, just as there has been no actual change in a dream. Brahman is The Changeless.

Enlightenment is simply the awakening to who you already are; to who you have always been. It is to pierce the facade of maya; to pierce the facade of the individual self lost in Identification.

You cannot 'get out of maya', since maya is illusion, so there is nothing to get out of; nothing to 'get'; nothing to grasp. The only way to overcome the mental entanglement that is maya is to be still and to just see what is. Seeing into the true nature of maya is to realize it's illusory nature, and to realize oneness with the true nature of Reality. In fact, this 'seeing things as they are' is the Pure Consciousness that is Brahman itself. There are not 'ways to get out of maya's entanglement'; there are ways to see that such entanglement is illusory.

Brahman is not 'maya'. 'Maya' is the result of existence of Brahman.

So now you have made Brahman into a duality due to the machinations of the thinking mind. You have made maya into something existing outside of Brahman, but you did understand that nothing can exist outside of Brahman, correct? You have made Brahman into 'self and other', where there is no such 'self and other'. You have made the gold chain to exist as something separate from gold itself.

If Brahman is hiding then it is surely different from 'maya'.

No, it is exactly maya. Brahman is hiding within all forms that it manifests in the Universe, pretending it is those forms. This is the most compelling thing in the world, and is missed by most seekers, partly because they are too serious about the nature of things. All forms in the Universe, including you and I, are none other than Brahman, playing itself as 'The Universe'. When you awaken spiritually from the dream of maya, you realize your true nature, which is that of Brahman itself. As Vivekenanda so wonderfully stated:

"The Universe is The Absolute, as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation"

Brahman's manifestation can be a serious topic of discussion for some, not so for the others who disregard the 'Absolute' (Paramarthika) for the 'Pragmatic' (Vyavaharika). Perfectly OK with me. My son would not care for all this.

So what do you suppose the true nature of the material world to be? Is it a serious effort on the part of Brahman? According to Christian beliefs, it is a testing ground which determines the fate of the soul, with ruinous temptation just around every corner to lure you into sin and hell.