Niatero
*banned*
Oh, sorry! Thanks! I’ll correct that.
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Reasons for Atheism if you aren't in the DIR
- Thread starter Niatero
- Start date
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
That was my reason for leaving the church as well that God's power does not and cannot transform lives, and does not make people stand out from others in a unique way that would identify Christians as being the light of the world and salt of the earth.
What I did find was that Christians and theists are no better and no worse than anybody else on this planet which made religion and my faith a pretty much moot endeavor and much easier to drop and walk away from.
I just returned back 'home' to where it all began , and that is without God's and had remained so since.
Was that an attempt to be clever?
My father was an atheist, although a soft one. He became one at age 10 or so. The preacher preached about being a good neighbour. On a cold rainy day after church, several cars with plenty of room drove right past him and his sisters, as they walked the 2 miles home. He concluded that the idea of religion was a total joke if nobody practiced anything, and he never went to church again other than for marriages and funerals. At the same time he made sure to practice being a good neighbor to everyone, and occasionally caused 'trouble' doing so. I guess some of the Christians didn't appreciate him practicing their faith better than they did. So to sum it up, his reason was the hypocrisy.
I grew up in that environment, and agreed with it in totality, until I had certain experiences that made me thing otherwise, but those experiences were outside that paradigm. I still see that hypocrisy at times, and it would keep me being an atheist as well. Not my kind of people.
That's the name of the sutta. You can read the Pali source here:
AN II_utf8
Here is the Pali Text Society entry for Cintita:
Cintita Cintita [pp. of cinteti, cp. also cintaka] (a) (adj.) thought out, invented, devised S i.137 (dhammo asuddho samalehi c.); iii.151 (caraṇaŋ nāma cittaŋ citten' eva c.); Pv ii.613 (mantaŋ brahma˚, expl. PvA 97 by kathitaŋ). — (b) (nt.) a thought, intention, in duc˚ & su˚ (bad & good) A i.102; ThA 76; -matta as much a, a thought, loc. cintita -- matte (yeva) at the mere thoughts just as he thought it DhA i.326 (=cintita kkhaṇe in the moment of thinking it, p. 329).
Here is the Pali Text Society partial entry for Loka, which basically means realm. It can include any or all of the realms of the 31 planes of existence, but usually refers to the visible world, or secondarily, to the space or sphere of creation. The madness (ummādassa literally out of ones mind) comes from making stuff up about what is out of range of ones perception (much like paranoia and conspiracy theories.)
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I've always wondered what is it about the Universe that causes people to assume it was actually created?
Niatero
*banned*
My first thought is that maybe it happens when people start seeing things happening outside of human control, that look like what they previously thought only humans could do. It's funny in a way, because our idea of what only humans can do comes from not seeing it happen outside of human control. Logically, seeing things happen outside of human control that we previously thought only humans could do would simply change our idea of what only humans can do. Maybe sometimes people's ideas of what only humans can do becomes fixed so that instead of revising their ideas of what only humans can do, they start thinking that there must be some human-like being out there doing those things outside of human control that they thought only humans can do.
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Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
My father had a similar experience as a teen and never attended Sunday morning services after that (until after retirement and before hearing aids LOL) But he was very much involved with church and community projects. He lived a most Christian life - though far from perfect. He did insist on our attending Sunday School -- can't decide if you're not informed.
Mom put me in vacation Bible school one summer because she wanted us to do something I think ... you know, get us off the farm over to be with other kids, she probably figured we'd enjoy it. I lasted one day, and made such a fuss the second day that she let me stay home.
In my late teens I did go to a church service, but I knew the people there ... outside of church. They were adulterers, people who didn't pay bills, and all that. Great pretenders. That was one of two church services I ever went to. The other was a time when nobody would take my visiting aunt who couldn't drive, so I volunteered. I can't remember much of it.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
Perhaps because cause and effect are so central to our experience of the universe, we intuitively look for the first cause to which all other causes can be traced.
Frank Fractal
*banned*
The concept of acinteyya, or the imponderables, is discussed by the Buddha in the “Acintita Sutta: Unconjecturable” (AN 4.77) found in the Anguttara Nikaya of the Pali Canon. In this sutta, Buddha outlines four topics that are considered “unconjecturable” and warns that pondering over these can lead to madness and vexation.
The four imponderables (acinteyya) mentioned are:
1. The Buddha-range of the Buddhas: the precise powers and scope of a Buddha’s knowledge.
2. The jhana-range of one absorbed in jhana: the specific attainments and experiences of someone absorbed in meditative absorption.
3. The results of kamma: the exact workings and outcomes of karmic actions.
4. Speculation about [the origin, etc., of] the cosmos: conjectures about the ultimate beginnings of the universe.
Focusing on these can lead to distraction and distress, according to the teachings in this sutta. This guidance suggests a practical approach to mental and spiritual development, emphasizing focus on what can be understood and directly experienced.
Thanks for the clarification, but I continue to be uncomfortable with point #4. In my opinion,
- the set of "what can be understood" grows almost daily, and
- informed and disciplined speculation is a remarkable and ongoing human achievement.
Frank Fractal
*banned*
Your last point is a good one.
I think Buddha’s advice is pragmatic and to be taken in the context of the distress caused by the demand for certainty about all and everything.
In my case, the impossibility of certain kinds of knowledge is bewildering, but acceptable.
I would even say inspiring.
I love the fact that no one actually knows anything regarding the origin, or maybe steady state eternity, of creation.
It‘s akin to the public speaking trick of seeing everyone in their underwear, to level the playing field.
I find it empowering to realise that there is no one who ‘actually knows’.
It reveals the charismatics and religious power-trippers for what they are - preposterous impostors.
In that way there is solace and humility in recognising the impossibility of Revelation .
I tend to use absolutes like "impossibility" sparingly. I'm also not a huge fan of "certainty."
yup. oligarchs are destroying the planet and magical thinking is making it easy for them.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
By magical thinking do you mean belief in the efficacy of unregulated free market economies? If so, I agree.
There is also the "leap of speculation".
The free market isn't magical.
It's psychology.
That's a good example.
Also the idea that economies must grow endlessly to be healthy.