Reasons for atheism

[Tomef]

At least, the universe is just. It is an equal opportunity killer. No matter your status, belief or morals, you'll be accelerated at 9.81 m/s² when you fall off a cliff. No exceptions.

Some illnesses are a bit random tho.

 

[osgart]

This lack of some sense of morality inherent in the universe is the main thing that convinced you there is no god?

Yes, absolutely! And that life needs so much to survive in nature.

I suppose it could be argued that the need to cooperate in order to thrive shapes and drives ethical behaviour to some extent, in broad strokes. As you say, it’s not a question of rules that apply in every situation in a straightforward manner, but something like the selfish gene idea seems to be in operation. Which does away with the need to invent a divine being as a means to explain or enforce ethics.

I always thought of ethics as applying morality to the external world and other people in many situations. I always thought of morality as exploring and introspecting about what is a good conscience, and what offends, and what is approved in one's inner experience.

There's a lot of self and selfish reasons why good morality is needed. Wealth and success is generated by people. Even love has a practical benefit if not abused. How we treat self and others correlates to quality of life. Beyond that the virtuous life should produce reliable love, joy, and peace. However generation after generation we see people who are destructive, reckless, or much worse. I don't see a divine hand in anything that goes on. Morality, and ethics gives its own reward if the morality is chosen well.

Selfless morals are based on love of virtues and others. I look at nature and it's not sufficient for this morality. Thus no divine hand. Nor is one needed because of human capacity to choose morals that are worthy of living. It all depends on what the heart decides and not on some external supernatural being. Plus I don't think anyone owns morality like a God. Bad morality and ethics can really sink a person.

 

[Tomef]

Yes, absolutely! And that life needs so much to survive in nature.



I always thought of ethics as applying morality to the external world and other people in many situations. I always thought of morality as exploring and introspecting about what is a good conscience, and what offends, and what is approved in one's inner experience.

There's a lot of self and selfish reasons why good morality is needed. Wealth and success is generated by people. Even love has a practical benefit if not abused. How we treat self and others correlates to quality of life. Beyond that the virtuous life should produce reliable love, joy, and peace. However generation after generation we see people who are destructive, reckless, or much worse. I don't see a divine hand in anything that goes on. Morality, and ethics gives its own reward if the morality is chosen well.

Selfless morals are based on love of virtues and others. I look at nature and it's not sufficient for this morality. Thus no divine hand. Nor is one needed because of human capacity to choose morals that are worthy of living. It all depends on what the heart decides and not on some external supernatural being. Plus I don't think anyone owns morality like a God. Bad morality and ethics can really sink a person.

I find the evolution of what people mean by god interesting. The OT seems to have been influenced by earlier writings that came out of the Sumerian, Assyrian and Babylonian kingdoms/empires, with the later idea of there being one chief god (over other gods) who in the OT becomes Yahweh. The legal/moral code laid down by Yahweh draws on earlier legal codes like Hammurabi’s, and from what I’ve read one of the reasons for issuing such codes was to extol the ruler’s status and character as ruler, the one who laid down the law and would ensure that justice was done. So maybe the idea that morals come from god originates in that perceived need for someone to set and enforce the rules, and impose some order on chaos. Could be too that rules for ethical behaviour underwent something of a transformation in the transition from hunter-gatherer lifestyles to agricultural and urban civilisation, along with the hierarchical structures that led to, leading to different perceptions of where ‘the rules’ come from, and who is responsible. That would also feed into the kind of Platonic-influenced notion of god as the perfect ‘form’ or ideal of man, or the king, the only one qualified to say what the rules are, in the NT.

 

[Soandso]

Well, speaking for myself I spent the vast majority of my life as a biblical literalist (Baptist, Fundamentalist, Evangelical). At about the age of 30 I became terribly conflicted by the character of God in the old testament. I loved the sacrifice and love of Jesus, but as time went on I felt myself more and more disgusted by the hateful brutality of Yahweh

For the first few years I sought answers to my questions in the Bible. I also talked to other Christians online about how they delt with these issues. Doing so led me to understand various paths on Christianity outside of biblical literalism that had satisfactory answers that literalism lacked

At this point I pulled at the threads of every belief I had - "deconstructing" they call it now. One of the first beliefs to go away for me was my belief in a literal hell. This allowed me to freely explore the ideas of a loving god in Christianity while abandoning Yahweh as I had come to understand him

Time went on and I explored other monotheistic paths featuring a loving god. I became dissatisfied with those over time though because the answers were a little too neat and shallow for me. I wanted something with a little more depth and substance. I'd never entertained the idea that God could be gods, so I looked into paganism and it clicked with me

Where monotheistic religions tend to focus on God as a good guy and everything bad or flawed in the world as a force outside of God, paganism does the opposite. The main characters, the gods, are all flawed and each one represents a different aspect of life. It was a stark difference from monotheism, but honestly I dug it a lot

As time went on though, I stopped believing in gods as literal beings. I researched a lot of different paths and religions out there, and their takes on Gods felt very man made. This is fine as many non-literalists have no problems parsing the gods they choose to follow as mere representations for a greater force, but that just stopped being viable for me - I had lost all belief in gods by this point

I then decided to cut out religion altogether, and honestly it's been nice. I've taken all the lessons I've learned from religion and have used them in my life in their absence. That said, I do miss the "spiritual" aspect of paganism, so I've went ahead and reincorporated those back into my life. I don't think I'll ever go back to building an altar or anything like that (maybe), but it makes me happy to revel in the natural world we live in and to respect it

Sorry for the long winded post. I swear this is the extremely abridged version!

 

[Tomef]

Well, speaking for myself I spent the vast majority of my life as a biblical literalist (Baptist, Fundamentalist, Evangelical). At about the age of 30 I became terribly conflicted by the character of God in the old testament. I loved the sacrifice and love of Jesus, but as time went on I felt myself more and more disgusted by the hateful brutality of Yahweh

For the first few years I sought answers to my questions in the Bible. I also talked to other Christians online about how they delt with these issues. Doing so led me to understand various paths on Christianity outside of biblical literalism that had satisfactory answers that literalism lacked

At this point I pulled at the threads of every belief I had - "deconstructing" they call it now. One of the first beliefs to go away for me was my belief in a literal hell. This allowed me to freely explore the ideas of a loving god in Christianity while abandoning Yahweh as I had come to understand him

Time went on and I explored other monotheistic paths featuring a loving god. I became dissatisfied with those over time though because the answers were a little too neat and shallow for me. I wanted something with a little more depth and substance. I'd never entertained the idea that God could be gods, so I looked into paganism and it clicked with me

Where monotheistic religions tend to focus on God as a good guy and everything bad or flawed in the world as a force outside of God, paganism does the opposite. The main characters, the gods, are all flawed and each one represents a different aspect of life. It was a stark difference from monotheism, but honestly I dug it a lot

As time went on though, I stopped believing in gods as literal beings. I researched a lot of different paths and religions out there, and their takes on Gods felt very man made. This is fine as many non-literalists have no problems parsing the gods they choose to follow as mere representations for a greater force, but that just stopped being viable for me - I had lost all belief in gods by this point

I then decided to cut out religion altogether, and honestly it's been nice. I've taken all the lessons I've learned from religion and have used them in my life in their absence. That said, I do miss the "spiritual" aspect of paganism, so I've went ahead and reincorporated those back into my life. I don't think I'll ever go back to building an altar or anything like that (maybe), but it makes me happy to revel in the natural world we live in and to respect it

Sorry for the long winded post. I swear this is the extremely abridged version!

Sounds like an interesting journey.

 

[Tomef]

Also, God and "objective" morality are mutually exclusive- so the claim made by the argument from morality is actually the opposite of what is the case. If objectivity means subject-invariance, then "objective" morality can only exist if God does not. For if God exists, and morality is subject to the whims and will of God, then it is not subject-invariant, in the case of God. So either God exists, or objective morality exists, or God has nothing to do with morality. But both God and objective morality cannot exist, if the former is the source of the latter.

Maybe they met in a dark alley one night and cancelled each other out.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I was born not believing.
I later learned that others do believe.
It all seemed utterly ridiculous.
So a non-believer I remained.

This would be an applicable description for my two eldest daughters. Youngest one is still to be determined (she's 3)