Reasons for believing in the Bible as the literal word of God.

[Evangelicalhumanist]

"If the Bible is the "word of God" even apparent contradictions should not exist"

You are assuming the people who wrote the bible were amanuenses.
Even if a god spoke to them, you are taking it literally that they put it in the bible word for word. Humans are of course far from perfect and make errors.

The Biblical God is supposed to be perfect though.

Of course. But a god didn't write the bible, humans did.

There it is. The whole argument in a nutshell. And what humans wrote is subject to human error. Go ahead, anybody here. Listen to just 2 minutes, a mere 120 seconds of speech, and at the end, instantly write down what you heard verbatim. You may surprise yourself with just how much you get wrong!

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

My point was just to say, reasons itself are not useful, anyone can offer reasons. Crucial thing is are they reasonable. I don't think I have seen any good reasons against Bible here from anyone.

Well, the subject is whether the Bible should be taken as the "literal Word of God." No, for the God-believer, the literal Word of God would be law, would it not? It is something that, when you know of it, and the situation arises, you must act on, is that not so?

I mean, surely we all accept that our beliefs (if they really are our beliefs) inform our actions, no?

• Exodus 21:7 clearly allows a man to sell his daughter into slavery. Does this seem like a good way to raise a few bucks to you?
• Since men are allowed no contact with a woman during her period (Lev 15:19-24), should she be allowed to cook his meals, or does he have to do it himself? I mean, obviously they can't eat together, but the cooking part is ambiguous.
• Lev. 25:44 allows ownership of slaves but only you got them from other nations. Do you think Americans should be allowed to buy Canadians (or Canadians buy Americans)?
• Working on the Sabbath is absolutely forbidden, no ifs and or buts -- it's a commandment. Now, should a nurse be forbidden from changing a patient's dressing, or feeding him?
• How come eating shellfish is an abomination, and homosexuality is an abomination
• Eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), but is it a lesser abomination than homosexuality (Lev 18:22)? If not, why are red states not busy enacting laws against shrimp cocktails?
• Lev 21:20 says you can't approach the altar of God if you have a defect in your sight. Does that mean wearing glasses makes you unable to take communion?
• Deut 23:1 says that anyone who has had a testicular injury, or had his penis cut off (maybe due to cancer?) shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD. Is it really fair to somebody who has already suffered so much to excommunicate him, too?
• Do you obey Lev 19:27, and tell your barber not to trim your hair around your temples? Why not?
• Lev 11:6-8 warns that touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. When was the last time you caught or threw a football?
• The Bible tells you that you must not lant two different crops in the same field, nor wear clothes made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). Do you do these things?
• And finally, let us not forget that the Bible says that people like me (homosexuals) must be put to death. How do you plan to carry out the execution?

(All of the above is a paraphrase from "A Letter to Dr. Laura")

 

[TLK Valentine]

My point was just to say, reasons itself are not useful, anyone can offer reasons. Crucial thing is are they reasonable. I don't think I have seen any good reasons against Bible here from anyone.

And I don't think you ever will. That doesn't mean they aren't there.

 

[Audie]

And I don't think you ever will. That doesn't mean they aren't there.

No data ever is enough for "Faith"
people.

 

[TLK Valentine]

No data ever is enough for "Faith"
people.

And that's fine - faith has always been belief in the absence of evidence.

It's only when people try to take evidence away from others that I have a problem with them.

 

[Audie]

And that's fine - faith has always been belief in the absence of evidence.

It's only when people try to take evidence away from others that I have a problem with them.

It goes with the faith territory though.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What are your best reasons for believing in the Bible as the literal word of God, if that's your thing? Heck, just give me reasons they don't even have to be good.

But I'm coming to the conclusion/opinion that there isn't really a "good" reason to believe in the Bible as the literal word of God.

I feel like I've just about fully shaken off my Christian convictions and beliefs. I've been an apostate for over a year now I'm pretty sure. The first few months I still had my doubts about my decision to reject Christianity. Just, it was ingrained into my head from birth pretty much that Jesus is literally God. All my family told me that and brought me to church where I was told that too.

Growing up, I dived into Christian apologetics in an attempt to reinforce my faith. I let apologetics convince me as a teenager of the soundness and literalness of the Bible. But apologetics is weak. It doesn't provide a solid reason for saying that the Bible is literally from God.

I realize now that it was two things that developed and fed my Christian convictions and beliefs.
1. Authority figures who I trusted told me the Bible was from God. This is not a good reason.
2. It was a comfort to believe that I have in my hand the literal word of the god of the literal universe. And it tells me how to live my life and that everything will be okay in the end. Very comforting, but not a valid reason to believe imo.

Those are the two reasons I identified why I used to believe so much and dearly. I now understand that I had no good reason to believe in the Bible, and I feel like I haven't a modicum of Christian faith or conviction in me anymore. Which is what I was going for, I'm no longer thinking there's a slight chance ima burn in hell for my apostasy.

So, do I have it right? There is no good reason to believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God.

You seem to have Christianity mixed up with Islam. It's Islam that believes that the Qur'an is the literal, verbatim word of God (in the original classical Arabic). In Christianity, Jesus Christ is the Word of God, as the opening verses of John make clear - not a book. It's all about Christ, the Person, Who lives and reigns with the Father in the unity of the Holy Spirit, as the prayer goes.

 

[SDavis]

Forget intelligence. The fact is that there are good reasons for governments to leave this area hazy - for their own purposes. Or do you really believe any government would be completely open and honest over such things? Have a look at the majority scientific opinion as to UAPs rather than what any governments might say, given generally they don't have an axe to grind as to such things and mostly they don't see sufficient evidence as to aliens and all that.

They did leave the area hazy and they're still being closed-lipped. They have far more information than they are releasing. Far too many military personnel, Air Force pilots, civilian pilots, and civilians are seeing these things now eventually they have to come out with the truth. Only a few years ago former president Barack Obama said there is something out there and we don't know what it is, after the Pentagon release the radar of an unidentified object. Trump space force makes no sense unless he was debriefed on the unnatural.

 

[SDavis]

Oh my! Totally wrong. If it was an alien they would openly claim that they are. One more time, the meaning is in the words. They are Unidentified Flying Objects. Claiming that they are alien would be an identification.

You could not show that any of them were aliens. I can show you example of example of them being explained. Guess what happens when they are explained. Most people ignore that and forget about them.

Do you live in the United States? This government is well known for cover-up.

Claiming they are alien would not be necessarily be identifying them. Alien is a term for something not of this Earth. And if if it's something actually living and not of this Earth no one knows what it is.

The government no longer is calling them UFOs they're calling them UAP's (UNIDENTIFIED ARIEL PHENOMENON) now _ but I'm just used to the term UFOs.

There are far too many unexplained events going on in this world that evolves something that man himself cannot explain / identify.

I'm just an ordinary everyday person and you argue with me about the existence of UFOs / UAP's ........ Reagan is dead, he reported seeing a UFO, you can't talk to him _ Carter is too old, he reported seeing a UFO, you can't talk to him _ President Obama is still alive tell him what you tell me. After the Pentagon released its radar video a couple of years or so ago or President Obama said there is something out there and we don't know what it is (unidentified) _ the US military personnel / civilian pilot, who have did interviews on the news tell them what you've told me.
I'm giving some of the links once no need to give them again. But most likely you wouldn't read them anyway.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Do you live in the United States? This government is well known for cover-up.

Claiming they are alien would not be necessarily be identifying them. Alien is a term for something not of this Earth. And if if it's something actually living and not of this Earth no one knows what it is.

The government no longer is calling them UFOs they're calling them UAP's (UNIDENTIFIED ARIEL PHENOMENON) now _ but I'm just used to the term UFOs.

There are far too many unexplained events going on in this world that evolves something that man himself cannot explain / identify.

I'm just an ordinary everyday person and you argue with me about the existence of UFOs / UAP's ........ Reagan is dead, he reported seeing a UFO, you can't talk to him _ Carter is too old, he reported seeing a UFO, you can't talk to him _ President Obama is still alive tell him what you tell me. After the Pentagon released its radar video a couple of years or so ago or President Obama said there is something out there and we don't know what it is (unidentified) _ the US military personnel / civilian pilot, who have did interviews on the news tell them what you've told me.
I'm giving some of the links once no need to give them again. But most likely you wouldn't read them anyway.

LOL1 No, the US government is not "well known for cover-up". That is a claim of a conspiracy theorist. You have made claims, you have not been able to supply them.

And no, an unexplained event is never evidence. You are trying to make an argument from ignorance.

And one more time, a UFO is an Unidentified Flying object. That means that one does not know what it is. If it was an alien it would be an Identified Flying Object.

One more time, do you have any evidence for your claims? I can show you how certain UFO's were identified. None of them were aliens.

 

[SDavis]

You seem to be conflating "UFOs" with "aliens."

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

extraterrestrial

1. in or coming from a place outside the planet Earth: 2. a creature from…

dictionary.cambridge.org

Alien - Definition, Meaning & Synonyms

Really!!!!

 

[SDavis]

LOL1 No, the US government is not "well known for cover-up". That is a claim of a conspiracy theorist. You have made claims, you have not been able to supply them.

And no, an unexplained event is never evidence. You are trying to make an argument from ignorance.

And one more time, a UFO is an Unidentified Flying object. That means that one does not know what it is. If it was an alien it would be an Identified Flying Object.

One more time, do you have any evidence for your claims? I can show you how certain UFO's were identified. None of them were aliens.

One more time right back at you

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/03/politics/us-government-secrets-what-matters/index.html

Just like you can show me how *some* UFO sightings are identified - I can show you where they are.

And if you think what you give is evidence then you should be able to accept what I as evidence people don't have a reason to lie - especially about something like that goodbye.

 

[Subduction Zone]

One more time right back at you

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/03/politics/us-government-secrets-what-matters/index.html

Just like you can show me how *some* UFO sightings are identified - I can show you where they are.

And if you think what you give is evidence then you should be able to accept what I as evidence people don't have a reason to lie - especially about something like that goodbye.

That is just an opinion piece about classified information. All governments have classified information. There are various reasons for having it. That has nothing at all to do with "cover-up". I sometimes think that you do not even understand the English language.

Meanwhile you have not supported any UFO's at all being shown to be aliens. Once more, I can show how some of them have been identified.

Do you have a rational reason for believing in aliens?

 

[SDavis]

That is just an opinion piece about classified information. All governments have classified information. There are various reasons for having it. That has nothing at all to do with "cover-up". I sometimes think that you do not even understand the English language.

Meanwhile you have not supported any UFO's at all being shown to be aliens. Once more, I can show how some of them have been identified.

Do you have a rational reason for believing in aliens?

THRICE MORE
Person even courtrooms except eye witness testimonies as evidence.

you don't understand the English language.
Cover up: conceal - keep secret - not to reveal

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

Top secret: not to reveal - conceal - none disclosure Definition of TOP SECRET

They even use the word cover up in the article at first supplied shows you didn't even look at it.

Well here is some more

Government Engaging in Pattern of Cover-up; Whistleblowers Silenced at the Expense of Our Safety | American Civil Liberties Union

www.aclu.org

The Cover Up: Big Tech, the Swamp, and Mainstream Media Coordinated to Censor Americans’ Free Speech - United States House Committee on Oversight and Accountability

Top 10 Weird Government Secrets - TIME

It's not just military secrets that governments keep close. And some information, like the recently revealed allegation that Winston Churchill ordered a cover-up of a UFO sighting, seems more amusing...

content.time.com

Crime, Corruption, and Cover-Ups | Explore | Drawing Justice: The Art of Courtroom Illustration | Exhibitions at the Library of Congress | Library of Congress

Whether exposing or participating in government corruption, defrauding the Internal Revenue Service, demanding bribes, manipulating money, or spying, United States District Attorneys take on both notorious and mundane criminals. Artists create more than a record—they document meaningful moments...

www.loc.gov

Asking me do I have a rational reason for believing in Aliens - the word extraterrestrial is better.

Panspermia _ a theory on the origin of life here on this planet, what many scientists believe in *living* organisms came From outer Space.
Even some astrophysicist feel intelligent life may exist somewhere else in this universe (thrice again) ask them that same question.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/intelligent-life-probably-exists-on-distant-planets--even-if-we-cant-make-contact-astrophysicist-says/2021/06/18/ee6a5316-cd2d-11eb-8cd2-4e95230cfac2_story.html

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What are your best reasons for believing in the Bible as the literal word of God, if that's your thing? Heck, just give me reasons they don't even have to be good.

But I'm coming to the conclusion/opinion that there isn't really a "good" reason to believe in the Bible as the literal word of God.

I feel like I've just about fully shaken off my Christian convictions and beliefs. I've been an apostate for over a year now I'm pretty sure. The first few months I still had my doubts about my decision to reject Christianity. Just, it was ingrained into my head from birth pretty much that Jesus is literally God. All my family told me that and brought me to church where I was told that too.

Growing up, I dived into Christian apologetics in an attempt to reinforce my faith. I let apologetics convince me as a teenager of the soundness and literalness of the Bible. But apologetics is weak. It doesn't provide a solid reason for saying that the Bible is literally from God.

I realize now that it was two things that developed and fed my Christian convictions and beliefs.
1. Authority figures who I trusted told me the Bible was from God. This is not a good reason.
2. It was a comfort to believe that I have in my hand the literal word of the god of the literal universe. And it tells me how to live my life and that everything will be okay in the end. Very comforting, but not a valid reason to believe imo.

Those are the two reasons I identified why I used to believe so much and dearly. I now understand that I had no good reason to believe in the Bible, and I feel like I haven't a modicum of Christian faith or conviction in me anymore. Which is what I was going for, I'm no longer thinking there's a slight chance ima burn in hell for my apostasy.

So, do I have it right? There is no good reason to believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God.

You have it right. There's no real evidence to show us the Bible is a record of history. We even know much of it couldn't have happened, like the confusion of languages at the Tower of Babel.

 

[Subduction Zone]

THRICE MORE
Person even courtrooms except eye witness testimonies as evidence.

you don't understand the English language.
Cover up: conceal - keep secret - not to reveal

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

Top secret: not to reveal - conceal - none disclosure Definition of TOP SECRET

They even use the word cover up in the article at first supplied shows you didn't even look at it.

Well here is some more

Government Engaging in Pattern of Cover-up; Whistleblowers Silenced at the Expense of Our Safety | American Civil Liberties Union

www.aclu.org

The Cover Up: Big Tech, the Swamp, and Mainstream Media Coordinated to Censor Americans’ Free Speech - United States House Committee on Oversight and Accountability

Top 10 Weird Government Secrets - TIME

It's not just military secrets that governments keep close. And some information, like the recently revealed allegation that Winston Churchill ordered a cover-up of a UFO sighting, seems more amusing...

content.time.com

Crime, Corruption, and Cover-Ups | Explore | Drawing Justice: The Art of Courtroom Illustration | Exhibitions at the Library of Congress | Library of Congress

Whether exposing or participating in government corruption, defrauding the Internal Revenue Service, demanding bribes, manipulating money, or spying, United States District Attorneys take on both notorious and mundane criminals. Artists create more than a record—they document meaningful moments...

www.loc.gov

Asking me do I have a rational reason for believing in Aliens - the word extraterrestrial is better.

Panspermia _ a theory on the origin of life here on this planet, what many scientists believe in *living* organisms came From outer Space.
Even some astrophysicist feel intelligent life may exist somewhere else in this universe (thrice again) ask them that same question.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/intelligent-life-probably-exists-on-distant-planets--even-if-we-cant-make-contact-astrophysicist-says/2021/06/18/ee6a5316-cd2d-11eb-8cd2-4e95230cfac2_story.html

Nope. you conflated the concept of a cover-up with classified material, And "except"? Really? Your post was almost a perfect example of Muphry's Law, with the exception that I did not make an error.

And now you are using an equivocation fallacy. Error after error after error.

And where do any of your people identify those objects as being "alien"? All that you have are unidentified flying objects. None of them have been identified as aliens.

Try again

 

[Mock Turtle]

They did leave the area hazy and they're still being closed-lipped. They have far more information than they are releasing. Far too many military personnel, Air Force pilots, civilian pilots, and civilians are seeing these things now eventually they have to come out with the truth. Only a few years ago former president Barack Obama said there is something out there and we don't know what it is, after the Pentagon release the radar of an unidentified object. Trump space force makes no sense unless he was debriefed on the unnatural.

You still don't seem to understand that all this doesn't necessarily point to aliens - just that such things are still unexplainable - and that the governments have good motives to keep this area shrouded in mystery or as to suspicions.

 

[Audie]

You have it right. There's no real evidence to show us the Bible is a record of history. We even know much of it couldn't have happened, like the confusion of languages at the Tower of Babel.

How about semi historical novel with
magical realism as major plot element.

 

[TLK Valentine]

How about semi historical novel with
magical realism as major plot element.

The problem with that definition is it treats the Bible as a single book with a single author.

How about a collaborative anthology of history, mythology, wisdom literature, moral teachings, poetry, and fiction?

 

[Audie]

The problem with that definition is it treats the Bible as a single book with a single author.

How about a collaborative anthology of history, mythology, wisdom literature, moral teachings, poetry, and fiction?

Of course it has many authors and the elements
you describe.
Many a single author book does too.

Semi historical novel / magic realism
is very much it, and, don't forget, as
" gods word" it has but one author.