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Rediscoveries of the Milky Way

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
I asked you for a peer-reviewed paper, or at the least a report in a reputable journal of science, that affirms (or as the case may be) the claims in the video.

You apparently don't have one.
OK, but if you have bothered to open the video up on YouTube, you would have these relevant links:

Links:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s4155...
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10...
https://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/ful...
Magnetism https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10...
https://arxiv.org/abs/2407.18659 https://www.aip.de/en/news/uralte-ste...
https://submissions.mirasmart.com/AAS...
https://academic.oup.com/mnras/articl...
https://greenbankobservatory.org/fron...
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The relevant links that I asked you for were from reputable scientific publications, not a whole barrage of Youtubeing.

So as it was in the beginning, I take it you have none.

That's fine/ Have a nice day.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
The relevant links that I asked you for were from reputable scientific publications, not a whole barrage of Youtubeing.

So as it was in the beginning, I take it you have none.
That just shows that you even didn´t look at the linked papers!

Don´t bother me anymore with your idle nonsense!
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
That just shows that you even didn´t look at the linked papers!

Don´t bother me anymore with your idle nonsense!
that was a selection of research about the milky way, absolutely nothing mentioning or even vaguely supporting the assertions re mythology or ancient knowledge.

Yes don't bother us with your idle nonsense, Please.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Sort of incorrect: Amun was always a supreme primordial air-god-entity in itself but was transformed in the creation stories from representing "air" to represent the "first fiery entity", which is logical as fire cannot burn without air/oxygen.

That false.

None of the paintings or basal sculpture reliefs of the Ogdoad at Khemenu (Hermopolis) during the Old Kingdom & Middle Kingdom periods, where all 8 deities appeared together, NOT ONE OF THEM, showed that Amun is superior than the others. Amun was no more supreme than his partner Amaunet, nor was he more supreme than Nu (or Nun), who appeared more frequently outside of Khemenu (eg Old Kingdom Pyramid Texts, Middle Kingdom Coffin Texts).

As I keep telling you, only from the New Kingdom period and Late Period, that Amun appeared as supreme deity, when he became more popular in Thebes, from 18th dynasty.

In the Late Period, things changed again, in Khemenu, where the ibis-headed Thoth was the supreme god, superior than the Ogdoad.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
that was a selection of research about the milky way, absolutely nothing mentioning or even vaguely supporting the assertions re mythology or ancient knowledge.

Yes don't bother us with your idle nonsense, Please.
It´s fine by me that you´re ignorant of the ancient Creation Stories and its logical connection to modern cosmology, but then just don´t reply on matters to which you are ignorant.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
That false.
Don´t call something false because you cannot concentrate to see the overall mytho-cosmological connections.

Quote:
Quote part1: ”Amun, God of the air, was one of the eight primordial Egyptian deities. Amun’s role evolved over the centuries; during the Middle Kingdom he became the King of the deities and in the New Kingdom he became a nationally worshipped god. He eventually merged with Ra, the ancient sun god, to become Amun-Ra".

Note: He didn´t merged with Ra as they were two different sources of Light: Amun-Ra = The central Milky Way Light and Ra = Our sun.

Quote part 2: "It is thought that Amun created himself and then everything else in the universe but distanced himself from it as “the original inscrutable and indivisible creator.” When Amun and Ra merged, he became a visible and invisible deity, which appealed to the ancient Egyptians’ concept of Ma’at or balance. Amun is depicted as a goose, snake, or ram, and also as a man with the head of a ram, frog, royal cobra, crocodile, or ape".

Note: # 1: Amun-Ra didn´t create the entire Universe as this was thought by our ancestors to be eternal of nature, but Amun-Ra certainly created the Milky Way, including our Solar System.
(If Amun-Ra is interpreted to be the Sun, the proponents indirectly claim the Sun to have created the universe, which of course is pure disconnected nonsense on all accounts).
# 2: Amun-Ra and Ra cannot logically be both invisible and visible at the same time. The Amun-Ra Milky Way Light is only visible at night, and the Ra Sun only visible at day.

Quote part 3: "Amun-Ra was the father and protector of the pharaoh and was the subject of a cult. Royal women had a complex relationship with the cult of Amun; Queen Nefertari received the title of “God’s Wife of Amun” and the female Pharaoh Hatshepsut claimed she had the right to rule because her mother was impregnated by Amun, thus being his daughter empowered her ascendancy”.

Note: "Her mother", the primordial Milky Way Mother Goddess, logically cannot have been impregnated by our Sun = Ra. The logics all speaks of the Amun-Ra, the central Milky Way Light and the above mentioned cosmic "familarity".

End of quotes.

Note: Here we have the clear mythical and cultural evidence of the mytho-cosmological familiarity connection which also fits Goddess Hathor and all other Egyptian (and global) dynastic Prime Mother Goddesses which names correctly have changed trough time, but not its initial description and function.
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Presenter Anton Petrov refers in his newest YouTube video to “new Milky Way discoveries” which in fact are several thousands of years old.

“Mind blowing New Discoveries About the Milky Way Galaxy”


These modern discoveries doesn´t surprise genuine Comparative Mythologists at all.

The ancient mythical “Light of Creation” = Electromagnetic Forces, and of course this is governing the Milky Way as everything else in cosmos.

For instants, in the Egyptian Ogdoad creation story, Amun-Ra represent the central Milky Way Light.

Some article authors are on the correct electromagnetic track here, but sadly Anton keeps on referring to the long outdated “cosmic galactic collisions and merging” and “gravitational waves”.

Video timestamps:
0:00 Gaia discoveries keep rewriting books.
0:35 Magnetic field discoveries and new magnetic maps.
2:49 Magnetic fields are chaotic and cause star formation.
4:02 eRosita bubbles form magnetic lines.
5:57 Bubbles are produced by quiet galaxies in specific regions.
7:20 Galaxy contains huge toroids that spin everything.
8:20 Galactic collision signs - The Great Wave.
10:28 Stars near us are super old - so is our galaxy.
11:35 Wrinkles suggest recent collisions.
12:50 Smith's cloud...coming soon.

What are your thoughts of this?
I like Anton. Keep looking to the stars!
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Don´t call something false because you cannot concentrate to see the overall mytho-cosmological connections.

Quote:
Quote part1: ”Amun, God of the air, was one of the eight primordial Egyptian deities. Amun’s role evolved over the centuries; during the Middle Kingdom he became the King of the deities and in the New Kingdom he became a nationally worshipped god. He eventually merged with Ra, the ancient sun god, to become Amun-Ra".

Note: He didn´t merged with Ra as they were two different sources of Light: Amun-Ra = The central Milky Way Light and Ra = Our sun.

Quote part 2: "It is thought that Amun created himself and then everything else in the universe but distanced himself from it as “the original inscrutable and indivisible creator.” When Amun and Ra merged, he became a visible and invisible deity, which appealed to the ancient Egyptians’ concept of Ma’at or balance. Amun is depicted as a goose, snake, or ram, and also as a man with the head of a ram, frog, royal cobra, crocodile, or ape".

Note: # 1: Amun-Ra didn´t create the entire Universe as this was thought by our ancestors to be eternal of nature, but Amun-Ra certainly created the Milky Way, including our Solar System.
(If Amun-Ra is interpreted to be the Sun, the proponents indirectly claim the Sun to have created the universe, which of course is pure disconnected nonsense on all accounts).
# 2: Amun-Ra and Ra cannot logically be both invisible and visible at the same time. The Amun-Ra Milky Way Light is only visible at night, and the Ra Sun only visible at day.

Quote part 3: "Amun-Ra was the father and protector of the pharaoh and was the subject of a cult. Royal women had a complex relationship with the cult of Amun; Queen Nefertari received the title of “God’s Wife of Amun” and the female Pharaoh Hatshepsut claimed she had the right to rule because her mother was impregnated by Amun, thus being his daughter empowered her ascendancy”.

Note: "Her mother", the primordial Milky Way Mother Goddess, logically cannot have been impregnated by our Sun = Ra. The logics all speaks of the Amun-Ra, the central Milky Way Light and the above mentioned cosmic "familarity".

End of quotes.

Note: Here we have the clear mythical and cultural evidence of the mytho-cosmological familiarity connection which also fits Goddess Hathor and all other Egyptian (and global) dynastic Prime Mother Goddesses which names correctly have changed trough time, but not its initial description and function.

Wow!

You really under the impressions that Bronze Age Egyptians actually knew everything there is to know about actual formation of the universe, of the Milky Way, of the Sun, and of the Earth itself. You actually believe that Egyptians knew in which order the whole cosmos have formed are based on the birthing orders of the gods that they were personifications of.

Each of the Egyptian gods (Amun, Ra, Hathor, etc) that we have talked about in this threads, have their attributes changed from one form to another, from one period to the next, throughout Egypt history. Also depending upon different periods and different cult centres, who was parent of whom, also changed.

As one among 8 deities of the Ogdoad in Khemenu, Amun was paired Amaunet, and they were the personifications hidden or invisibility, during the 3rd millennium BCE (Old Kingdom), where Amun had nothing to with the light, nor that of the Milky Way...not during this period (Old Kingdom). Nor was Amun “superior“ or “supreme” over all of primordial deities of Ogdoad.

During the Middle Kingdom, Egypt’s capital moved from Old Kingdom Memphis, to Thebes, and with that move, Amun have moved from Khemenu to Thebes. Not only was Amun’s attributes changed during this move, in Thebes he was no longer the primordial deity of the Ogdoad at Khemenu, his spouse changed from Amaunet to Thebes’ mother-goddess Mut (daughter of Ra), and together they have son Khonsu, forming the Triad in Thebes.

Amun remained in this Triad in Thebes, during the New Kingdom, but from the 18th dynasty, he became Amun-Ra, and from that point on, Amun was the supreme deity in the Egyptian pantheon, and during this period, he was associated with the Milky Way.

But prior to the New Kingdom period, even before these dynastic periods, in the late 4th millennium BCE (known as the Predynastic Period or Protodynastic Period), it was the cow goddess Bat who was originally the personification of the entire sky, including the Milky Way.

Later, in the Old, Middle & New kingdoms, the personification of the Milky Way went to Mehet-Weret and to Hathor.

Whether Hathor was mother, daughter or wife of Ra, matters not. That Ra (personification of the Sun) being father to Hathor (personification of the Milky Way)…does that really matter? The ancient Egyptians weren’t aware of the actual cosmology of the universe, and that they were clueless as Milky Way is really just among billions of galaxies in the Universe.

That you think the ancient Egyptians have real knowledge about the Milky Way or about the Sun, your own personal belief in this myth is disconnected with reality.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Btw, @Native.

nothing in Anton‘s video makes the Amun-Ra myths, true in any way.

As to Amun being the centre of the Milky Way.

The central light of the Milky Way isn’t really the ”centre” of the Milky Way.

There are no light at the centre of the Milky Way. The true centre of the Milky Way isn’t observable at all, certainly not with one’s eyesight, nor with any optical telescope. What is detected from the centre, are radio signals coming from centre, known as Sagittarius A, and that signals are assumed to be from the supermassive black hole.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
That just shows that you even didn´t look at the linked papers!

Don´t bother me anymore with your idle nonsense!

@blü 2 was asking you for recommendations from the bunch of links.

My guess is that you, yourself, haven’t visited, nor read any of those links, hence, why else would you retort blu 2 in the way you did? You are trying to hide the facts that you haven’t read any of the links by being gruff.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
You really under the impressions that Bronze Age Egyptians actually knew everything there is to know about actual formation of the universe, of the Milky Way, of the Sun, and of the Earth itself. You actually believe that Egyptians knew in which order the whole cosmos have formed are based on the birthing orders of the gods that they were personifications of.

Each of the Egyptian gods (Amun, Ra, Hathor, etc) that we have talked about in this threads, have their attributes changed from one form to another, from one period to the next, throughout Egypt history. Also depending upon different periods and different cult centres, who was parent of whom, also changed.

As one among 8 deities of the Ogdoad in Khemenu, Amun was paired Amaunet, and they were the personifications hidden or invisibility, during the 3rd millennium BCE (Old Kingdom), where Amun had nothing to with the light, nor that of the Milky Way...not during this period (Old Kingdom). Nor was Amun “superior“ or “supreme” over all of primordial deities of Ogdoad.

During the Middle Kingdom, Egypt’s capital moved from Old Kingdom Memphis, to Thebes, and with that move, Amun have moved from Khemenu to Thebes. Not only was Amun’s attributes changed during this move, in Thebes he was no longer the primordial deity of the Ogdoad at Khemenu, his spouse changed from Amaunet to Thebes’ mother-goddess Mut (daughter of Ra), and together they have son Khonsu, forming the Triad in Thebes.

Amun remained in this Triad in Thebes, during the New Kingdom, but from the 18th dynasty, he became Amun-Ra, and from that point on, Amun was the supreme deity in the Egyptian pantheon, and during this period, he was associated with the Milky Way.

But prior to the New Kingdom period, even before these dynastic periods, in the late 4th millennium BCE (known as the Predynastic Period or Protodynastic Period), it was the cow goddess Bat who was originally the personification of the entire sky, including the Milky Way.

Later, in the Old, Middle & New kingdoms, the personification of the Milky Way went to Mehet-Weret and to Hathor.

Whether Hathor was mother, daughter or wife of Ra, matters not. That Ra (personification of the Sun) being father to Hathor (personification of the Milky Way)…does that really matter? The ancient Egyptians weren’t aware of the actual cosmology of the universe, and that they were clueless as Milky Way is really just among billions of galaxies in the Universe.

That you think the ancient Egyptians have real knowledge about the Milky Way or about the Sun, your own personal belief in this myth is disconnected with reality.
You:
You really under the impressions that Bronze Age Egyptians actually knew everything there is to know about actual formation of the universe, of the Milky Way, of the Sun, and of the Earth itself. You actually believe that Egyptians knew in which order the whole cosmos have formed are based on the birthing orders of the gods that they were personifications of.

Remark:
I´ve NEVER said our ancestors knew of a creation of the entire Universe, aside they had/have it to be eternal in nature and having an intrinsic eternal cyclical process of Creation, Dissolution, and Re-Creation. You could have concluded that yourself by REALLY reading what I am writing.

The ancestral telling was/is specifically of the preconditions of, and factual formation of the Milky Way, including our Solar System. You too can conclude this to by taking the telling seriously connecting it and its symbols to the Milky Way et large.
-----
You:
Each of the Egyptian gods (Amun, Ra, Hathor, etc) that we have talked about in this threads, have their attributes changed from one form to another, from one period to the next, throughout Egypt history. Also depending upon different periods and different cult centres, who was parent of whom, also changed.
As one among 8 deities of the Ogdoad in Khemenu, Amun was paired Amaunet, and they were the personifications hidden or invisibility, during the 3rd millennium BCE (Old Kingdom), where Amun had nothing to with the light, nor that of the Milky Way...not during this period (Old Kingdom). Nor was Amun “superior“ or “supreme” over all of primordial deities of Ogdoad.
During the Middle Kingdom, Egypt’s capital moved from Old Kingdom Memphis, to Thebes, and with that move, Amun have moved from Khemenu to Thebes. Not only was Amun’s attributes changed during this move, in Thebes he was no longer the primordial deity of the Ogdoad at Khemenu, his spouse changed from Amaunet to Thebes’ mother-goddess Mut (daughter of Ra), and together they have son Khonsu, forming the Triad in Thebes.
Amun remained in this Triad in Thebes, during the New Kingdom, but from the 18th dynasty, he became Amun-Ra, and from that point on, Amun was the supreme deity in the Egyptian pantheon, and during this period, he was associated with the Milky Way.
But prior to the New Kingdom period, even before these dynastic periods, in the late 4th millennium BCE (known as the Predynastic Period or Protodynastic Period), it was the cow goddess Bat who was originally the personification of the entire sky, including the Milky Way.
Later, in the Old, Middle & New kingdoms, the personification of the Milky Way went to Mehet-Weret and to Hathor.
-----
Remark: You are taking primordial archetypical and eternal (Ogdoad) elementry entities of creation to be historically only - if ever tou take this serious at all, I mean.

You:
Whether Hathor was mother, daughter or wife of Ra, matters not. That Ra (personification of the Sun) being father to Hathor (personification of the Milky Way)…does that really matter? The ancient Egyptians weren’t aware of the actual cosmology of the universe, and that they were clueless as Milky Way is really just among billions of galaxies in the Universe.

Remark: It obvious doesn´t matter to you how our ancestors perceived their cosmological perception and cosmogonical description. No matter how many astronomical and cosmological informations are contained in the ancestral myths, it is STILL just a fairy tale to you.
-----
You:
That you think the ancient Egyptians have real knowledge about the Milky Way or about the Sun, your own personal belief in this myth is disconnected with reality.

Remark: Have you ever heard of the academic concept of “Comparative Mythology and Religion”? It regards the ancestral COLLECTIVE KNOWLEDGE and not a personal one.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
Btw, @Native.

nothing in Anton‘s video makes the Amun-Ra myths, true in any way.
Of course not to you who cannot connect Anton´s Milky Way electromagnetic informations to the concept of Light as our ancestors did. But perhaps you take all observed central galactic lights to be "dark matter", and thus invisible?
What is detected from the centre, are radio signals coming from centre, known as Sagittarius A, and that signals are assumed to be from the supermassive black hole.
Oh, I otherwise thougt nothing could escape from that black "scientific" ghost, but apparently you manage to do that just by repeating the "Standard Cosmology" nonsense.

For your information, bulged galactic centers are several thousand lightyears thick, hence the very idea of "a black hole with its event horizon" is completely childish.
 
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Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
@blü 2 was asking you for recommendations from the bunch of links.

My guess is that you, yourself, haven’t visited, nor read any of those
Just mind your own business. You have more than enough troubles of your own to deal with regarding taking advises from links and experienced comparative mythologists.
 
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