Refugee: What is the impact on a Muslim?

[Anthem]

That seems to be the official line, indeed.

Which only makes the actual text that more surprising and unconvincing, IMO.

Why?

 

[LuisDantas]

Why?

Because it is so remarkably limited, even unbalanced, to say nothing about unenlightened.

And yet it also presents itself as literal eternal truth.

In a way that is a feature in disguise. It puts to rest any doubts about its validity.

 

[stvdv]

But Mohammad was chosen. Would an all knowing god choose a messanger that cant get the damn message right?

I met many people claiming that God speaks through them; calling themselves chosen Messengers. Not all get the damn message right

I don't know Muhammad personally. Maybe He was an exception to the general rule "humans are not infallible"

 

[Anthem]

I met many people claiming that God speaks through them; calling themselves chosen Messengers. Not all get the damn message right

I don't know Muhammad personally. Maybe He was an exception to the general rule "humans are not infallible"

So you are questioning whether Mohammad was a messanger of god... and that is why he wrote a bad book with contradictions? Even thou the higest Islamic scholars can show you what it really is what you see as contradiction.

 

[LuisDantas]

So you are questioning whether Mohammad was a messanger of god... and that is why he wrote a bad book with contradictions? Even thou the higest Islamic scholars can show you what it really is what you see as contradiction.

Maybe they can, but one can't help but notice that they have had a very poor track record at actually doing it.

The practical reality is that Islaam is such a confused, conflicted doctrine that Muslims are very often their own worst enemies, going back at least as far as the Battle of the Camel thirteen and a half centuries ago.

Battle of the Camel - Wikipedia

 

[Anthem]

Maybe they can, but one can't help but notice that they have had a very poor track record at actually doing it.

Based on what?

They don't go around christian or jewish or whatever neighbourhoods correcting misunderstandings they have not made.

The main reason for all the anti islamic propaganda is that "ordinary" folk don't care to study before speaking so they repeat the first they have heard.

 

[Notanumber]

I met many people claiming that God speaks through them; calling themselves chosen Messengers. Not all get the damn message right

I don't know Muhammad personally. Maybe He was an exception to the general rule "humans are not infallible"

In a similar vein, I met a man pacing up and down the street the other day waving his arm towards the sky and shouting, “I am God, I am God” repeatedly.

I said calm down mate, you will be arrested if you carry on, but he carried on so I offered to buy him a pint if he stopped.

He did, so we walked into the Pub and I said two pints please barman. The barman looked up, saw my companion and said “O God, not you again”.



BTW, what you are describing in your first post is a modern form of Jihad.

 

[Shaul]

You misinterpret it wrong. No, it is not wrong of them to become refugees in christian countires...

Do you think the act of Muslims receiving refuge among non-Muslim is a disgrace for Muslims? When non-Muslims, even infidels, offer more kindness to needy Muslims than their brother Muslims doesn’t that say something?

 

[Anthem]

Do you think the act of Muslims receiving refuge among non-Muslim is a disgrace for Muslims?

No. That's kind of what I was saying.

When non-Muslims, even infidels, offer more kindness to needy Muslims than their brother Muslims doesn’t that say something?

 

[LuisDantas]

Based on what?

They don't go around christian or jewish or whatever neighbourhoods correcting misunderstandings they have not made.

The main reason for all the anti islamic propaganda is that "ordinary" folk don't care to study before speaking so they repeat the first they have heard.

I wish!

It is increasingly apparent that Islaam is actually protected by a good will, even from its critics, that it largely never deserved. For Islaam's reputation, ignorance is indeed bliss.

 

[Anthem]

I wish!

It is increasingly apparent that Islaam is actually protected by a good will, even from its critics, that it largely never deserved. For Islaam's reputation, ignorance is indeed bliss.

I don't understand your point there.

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't understand your point there.

Up until a few years ago I assumed a lot about Islaam, perceiving it as not too different from Christianity, albeit with largely different language and concepts.

I have since learned a lot about Islaam and much of what I did learn dismayed me considerably.

Far from being generally hurt by prejudice, it actually enjoys a considerable degree of good will that it does not even want to keep.

 

[stvdv]

So you are questioning whether Mohammad was a messanger of god... and that is why he wrote a bad book with contradictions? Even thou the higest Islamic scholars can show you what it really is what you see as contradiction.

No you misunderstood what I said. He was a great Messenger of God. But He was not God. God makes no mistakes, humans do.

As kids we "whispered a line of text in the ear of your neighbor ... after 8 times whisper ... original message was messed up". Just human error.

Koran verse 3:07 gives the solution for this "do not use these ambiguous verses, only use the literal ones".

The above verse is quite literal. And Muslims know this, that is why not one Muslim debated this verse.

The literal parts are:
"do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies"
"They are [in fact] allies of one another"
"And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them"
"Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people"

 

[stvdv]

In a similar vein, I met a man pacing up and down the street the other day waving his arm towards the sky and shouting, “I am God, I am God” repeatedly.
I said calm down mate, you will be arrested if you carry on, but he carried on so I offered to buy him a pint if he stopped.
He did, so we walked into the Pub and I said two pints please barman. The barman looked up, saw my companion and said “O God, not you again”.

Yes I met quite a few of those people claiming "I am God". Seems that a glass of beer is much stronger than "God" most of the time

 

[Anthem]

No you misunderstood what I said. He was a great Messenger of God. But He was not God. God makes no mistakes, humans do.

As kids we "whispered a line of text in the ear of your neighbor ... after 8 times whisper ... original message was messed up". Just human error.

Koran verse 3:07 gives the solution for this "do not use these ambiguous verses, only use the literal ones".

The above verse is quite literal. And Muslims know this, that is why not one Muslim debated this verse.

The literal parts are:
"do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies"
"They are [in fact] allies of one another"
"And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them"
"Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people"

The question is how to interpret them.

 

[stvdv]

BTW, what you are describing in your first post is a modern form of Jihad.

I like the video you included. Thank you.

I believe "peace" is only possible if religions stop believing "My religion is the only and best way to salvation"
When I was age 10 I knew this, and now 44 years later I still believe this is the major thing religions need to change

 

[Anthem]

I like the video you included. Thank you.

I believe "peace" is only possible if religions stop believing "My religion is the only and best way to salvation"
When I was age 10 I knew this, and now 44 years later I still believe this is the major thing religions need to change

Note that the word Islam means submission to god and that when the Quran speaks of it as the "right way" it doesn't really separate all other religions of itself.

 

[stvdv]

The question is how to interpret them.

You did not read Koran verse 3:07 I guess

 

[stvdv]

Note that the word Islam means submission to god and that when the Quran speaks of it as the "right way" it doesn't really separate all other religions of itself.

"it does not really separate all other religions of itself"
OR
"it really does not separate all other religions of itself"

If your words are true, it would be great if some great Imaam tell this in great capital letters in the newspaper, so all humans know
This they never do. They do write the opposite, I wonder why!. So if some great Imaam fails to clear this doubt I fail to belief them

 

[Shaul]

No. That's kind of what I was saying.

So you think Muslims should exploit the generosity of the sucker infidels to the max.

Gee, according to the Quran Muslims taking care of the poor and indigent fellow Muslims is a great obligation. What about that?