Refuting a Christian Argument Against an Ayah of the Quran

[Bowman]

I'll bet I can find aribic words that explain to them all these lies their god has already warned them that you propagate.

Then show us...

 

[Bowman]

Right, but did you even understand the verse in which you emphasized out of context.

I'll give you a hint.

"THEY SAY"......

The issue was not what Muslims were saying or any fact of Allah. It was something "others" were saying.

Who are these 'others' that are directly quoted but never corrected, brother...?

Then it is followed by (NO)....because everything in heaven and earth belongs to Allah....even Isa (Yeshua).

Explain why you want to render بل as a negation.

Your understanding of the Quran, or lack of, is really telling. Stay away from Main Page - WikiIslam

We don't need to use wiki, brother.

However, it appears that you must...

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Who are these 'others' that are directly quoted but never corrected, brother...?

.............This should be obvious. "Christians" were saying Allah has a son in the biological sense (i.e. trinity). This couldn't have been a charge against the Jews considering the Jews of the day did not acknowledge Yeshua as their prophesied messiah or even a prophet.

We don't need to use wiki, brother.

However, it appears that you must...

I'm not the one that is using a wiki. The point is your posting is almost verbatim the ramblings I dealt with back in 2007 from another poster. The wording and the cutting and pasting of the Arabic script and its font size is identical to a previous poster.

 

[Bowman]

.............This should be obvious. "Christians" were saying Allah has a son in the biological sense (i.e. trinity). This couldn't have been a charge against the Jews considering the Jews of the day did not acknowledge Yeshua as their prophesied messiah or even a prophet.

The Koran tells us plainly that some of the Jews believed...

I'm not the one that is using a wiki.

Then why refer to it...?

The point is your posting is almost verbatim the ramblings I dealt with back in 2007 from another poster. The wording and the cutting and pasting of the Arabic script and its font size is identical to a previous poster.

Where's the link, brother...?

 

[Pegg]

sorry....I JUST read it... It was plainly clear to me that Jesus was Gods apostel, sent through the virgin mary as another sure sign.
Plainly clear is it beneth God to have a son. For God who created the hevens and the earth in six days can surley do as he will.
There is no son, there are none like he.

There are dozens of passeges that plainly state that jesus is not Gods son.
To point at a symantical issue burried deep within is for nought.

Besides: Before, have the likes of ye been fortold. You are mislead and God will mislead whom he may. True believers know of your lies before you tell them. And God knows all.

It is God himself who refers to his created ones as his 'children'

Angels are called 'Sons of God' in the book of Job written by Moses

Psalm 2:6-7 6 [Saying:] “I, even I, have installed my king
Upon Zion, my holy mountain.” 7 Let me refer to the decree of Jehovah; He has said to me: “You are my son; I, today, I have become your father."

If God wants to call his any of his creations, 'children' or 'son' who are we to tell him he cannot?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The Koran tells us plainly that some of the Jews believed...

About time you have a revealed Quran there's are ready a Christian religion at play. You still, at this point, had a few worlds of thought. The Jews of the day were still awaiting their prophesied Messiah and did not consider Yeshua to be that Messiah. They appear to not even regard him as a prophet. The Talmud appears to come down harsh on him so it's doubtful they had much respect for him or his family.

Then why refer to it...?

I'm not using the material found at the site but listed it because it appears that you are or at least your current understanding of the Quran is from sites such as wikiislam.net and similar sites.

 

[Bowman]

About time you have a revealed Quran there's are ready a Christian religion at play. You still, at this point, had a few worlds of thought. The Jews of the day were still awaiting their prophesied Messiah and did not consider Yeshua to be that Messiah. They appear to not even regard him as a prophet. The Talmud appears to come down harsh on him so it's doubtful they had much respect for him or his family.

Again, you ignore what the Koran states.

Your knowledge of the Koran is very, very weak.

I'm not using the material found at the site but listed it because it appears that you are or at least your current understanding of the Quran is from sites such as wikiislam.net and similar sites.

Nope.

Try again.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Again, you ignore what the Koran states.

Your knowledge of the Koran is very, very weak.

Your weak understanding has already been pointed out by Arabic speaking people here. There are scores of scholars and linguist (some Muslims and some who aren't) that do not render the Quran the way you do. You've presented no certificates or degrees to prove you are equipped to translate the Quran the way you have. Your exegesis is flawed and out of context so you really have not presented anything worth debating.

Nope.

Try again.

Then show us your qualifications for being able to render your current exegesis. At least with Pickthall, Arberry and others I can research their qualifications. You're using a lexicon....and there's much more to the language when it comes to linguistics than just using a lexicon or a dictionary.

 

[Bowman]

Your weak understanding has already been pointed out by Arabic speaking people here.

Where?

There are scores of scholars and linguist (some Muslims and some who aren't) that do not render the Quran the way you do.

And?

You've presented no certificates or degrees to prove you are equipped to translate the Quran the way you have.

This line of excuse is usually reserved for followers of islam...

Your exegesis is flawed and out of context so you really have not presented anything worth debating.

Show us...

Then show us your qualifications for being able to render your current exegesis.

You are free to accept or reject our exegesis, brother.

If you reject, then you would need to present an alternate superior exegesis...of which, you have not...

At least with Pickthall, Arberry and others I can research their qualifications.

All, of which, render each and every verse differently...and none, of which, show their exegetical reasoning...

You're using a lexicon....and there's much more to the language when it comes to linguistics than just using a lexicon or a dictionary.

Show us...

 

[142857]

It is God himself who refers to his created ones as his 'children'

Angels are called 'Sons of God' in the book of Job written by Moses

Psalm 2:6-7 6 [Saying:] “I, even I, have installed my king
Upon Zion, my holy mountain.” 7 Let me refer to the decree of Jehovah; He has said to me: “You are my son; I, today, I have become your father."

If God wants to call his any of his creations, 'children' or 'son' who are we to tell him he cannot?

So jesus IS the son of god...just like me....and you...and mohammed...and bill mare...and....and...? That's the point? Jesus in this respect is no more devine than me?
According to my take on the Koran, God can call any of us anything he wants, sone daughter, infidel, ....... We are not to attribute these things unto him.

 

[Pegg]

So jesus IS the son of god...just like me....and you...and mohammed...and bill mare...and....and...? That's the point? Jesus in this respect is no more devine than me?
According to my take on the Koran, God can call any of us anything he wants, sone daughter, infidel, ....... We are not to attribute these things unto him.

Jesus is far more divine then any of us for the reason that he has no human father. The Quran does confirm the miraculous birth of Jesus...it says God made Mary pregnant (the bible says he made her pregnant by the power of holy spirit).

So Jesus father is God... just like Adam who did not have a human father unlike you or me or Mohammad.

 

[Pegg]

We all agree that God who created humans endowed us with power to have children. Adam was created with power to have sons.
Can anyone imagine a blind man inventing colours, or a pair of binoculars, or a telescope? Sir Isaac Newton reasoned on this and said: “Was the eye contrived without skill in optics, or the ear without knowledge of sounds?”

Now hear what the bible at Psalms 94:8, 9 says about this:
“Understand, you who are unreasoning among the people; and as for you stupid ones, when will you have any insight? The One planting the ear, can he not hear? Or the One forming the eye, can he not look?”

Now ask yourselves....the same one who gave gave man power to have sons, can He not have a son? The Quran say's “Verily, God is Almighty.” and the bible says "With God, all things are possible"

So why can't he have a son?

 

[Bowman]

Jesus is far more divine then any of us for the reason that he has no human father. The Quran does confirm the miraculous birth of Jesus...it says God made Mary pregnant (the bible says he made her pregnant by the power of holy spirit).

The Koran also copies the Gospel of Luke and tells us that Mary became pregnant through the Holy Spirit, sister.

So Jesus father is God... just like Adam who did not have a human father unlike you or me or Mohammad.

Jesus is God Himself, sister.

You cannot deny the Trinity.

 

[Pegg]

The Koran also copies the Gospel of Luke and tells us that Mary became pregnant through the Holy Spirit, sister.


Jesus is God Himself, sister.
You cannot deny the Trinity.

why can't I deny the trinity?

 

[Bowman]

why can't I deny the trinity?

To deny the Trinity is to deny the whole of Biblical scripture.

Of which, is exactly what JW's are trained to do...

 

[Pegg]

To deny the Trinity is to deny the whole of Biblical scripture.

Of which, is exactly what JW's are trained to do...

where is Jesus in the Hebrew scriptures?

Why is he never mentioned in there? Why is the trinity not even implied in the Hebrew scriptures?

 

[Bowman]

where is Jesus in the Hebrew scriptures?

Why is he never mentioned in there? Why is the trinity not even implied in the Hebrew scriptures?

The OT is rife with examples of the Trinity.

How about Ezekiel?

We have the Son proclaimed in Ezekiel:

• The Word (1.3)
• Also called the Glory (1.28)
• The Glory has the appearance of a Man (1.26 – 28)
• Compare how the NT refers to the Son as the Glory & the Word (John 1.14; Heb 1.3)
• Ezekiel states that the Glory by the river (1.3, 28) is the same Glory as mentioned throughout the book (3.22 – 23; 10.18 – 20; 43.3)

We have the Spirit proclaimed in Ezekiel:

• The Man that is portrayed in (8.1 - 3) is also mentioned in (40.3)
• The Man is a representation of the Spirit (8.2 – 3; 43.5 – 6)
• The Hand of Yahweh is also the Spirit (3.14; 8.3; 37.1)
• The Man and the Glory are often associated with Yahweh
• We have the Man bringing Ezekiel back to the east gate (44.1)
• Prior to this, the Man was w/Ezekiel by the east gate (43.1)

We have the Trinity proclaimed in Ezekiel:

• The Spirit & the Glory are mentioned together – but at the same time, distinction is made between them (1.28 – 2.2; 3.12 – 14, 23 – 24; 8.3 – 4; 10.18 – 11.1, 22 – 23; 43.1 – 5)
• The Man quotes the Father (Yahweh) (44.6; 45.9, 18; 46.1, 16; 47.13)
• The Glory quotes the Father (Yahweh) (3.11 – 12; 11.5; 43.18, 19, 27)
• The Man (44.1) referred the Glory, and went through the east gate into the temple (43.2 – 5), as Yahweh the Father (44.2)
• Therefore, the Glory (the Word) is the Son
• The Man (The Hand of Yahweh) is the Spirit
• Yahweh is the Father