Regarding the Bible

[Rainbow Mage]

I guess I want to get other people's viewpoints on something that's been bothering me. When I read the Bible, I see some horrible things in there like war and plundering, things I could never call good. My sense of empathy and compassion won't allow me to see it as good, but then I see some people saying it's good and even loving on God's part. This is where it really bothers me. Isn't it bad when people start to totally redefine words in their minds to justify terrible things? Let's face it, what the Bible says Israel did to the Canaanites is not loving, not compassionate, not merciful, and not good. You have to totally redefine the meanings of those concepts to say such. Doesn't this suggest that it's dangerous and de-sensatizing to a society to read this book in this sense, literally?

 

[TheKnight]

I guess I want to get other people's viewpoints on something that's been bothering me. When I read the Bible, I see some horrible things in there like war and plundering, things I could never call good. My sense of empathy and compassion won't allow me to see it as good, but then I see some people saying it's good and even loving on God's part. This is where it really bothers me. Isn't it bad when people start to totally redefine words in their minds to justify terrible things? Let's face it, what the Bible says Israel did to the Canaanites is not loving, not compassionate, not merciful, and not good. You have to totally redefine the meanings of those concepts to say such. Doesn't this suggest that it's dangerous and de-sensatizing to a society to read this book in this sense, literally?

When one decides to follow the Bible, one makes a conscious decision that we do not live in La La land.

In our world, you have peace and you have goodness. And then you have those who would do everything in their power to disrupt that peace and to corrupt that goodness. A Bible-followers looks at those parts of the Bible, the parts about war and killing, and understands that as people who are truly concerned with love and peace, we must fight against those who would destroy said peace.

I agree, war is horrible, killing is horrible, plundering is horrible. God forbid any Bible-follower ever start to think those things are good. However, I also realize that evil people exist. People who want to kill others exist. People who don't like peace exist. And as someone who cares about that peace, I see war, fighting, killing, etc. as a necessary horror.

That's just my take. Make of it what you will.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Let's face it, what the Bible says Israel did to the Canaanites is not loving, not compassionate, not merciful, and not good.

Heck, it's not even coherent, suggesting that the Tanakh is tapestry and should be read and appreciated as such.

 

[Julio Valdez]

WEll um God gave those people chances to not do wrong but they wouldnt do it so thats why the Israelites did those things to the Canaanites

 

[fallingblood]

The problem with most people who read the Bible is that they don't have the historic background to put the stories in context. Also, assuming that everything is literal, as you suggest, can be quite dangerous.

 

[soleil10]

I guess I want to get other people's viewpoints on something that's been bothering me. When I read the Bible, I see some horrible things in there like war and plundering, things I could never call good. My sense of empathy and compassion won't allow me to see it as good, but then I see some people saying it's good and even loving on God's part. This is where it really bothers me. Isn't it bad when people start to totally redefine words in their minds to justify terrible things? Let's face it, what the Bible says Israel did to the Canaanites is not loving, not compassionate, not merciful, and not good. You have to totally redefine the meanings of those concepts to say such. Doesn't this suggest that it's dangerous and de-sensatizing to a society to read this book in this sense, literally?

The Bible retraces the journey of humankind that fell into ignorance after our first ancestors chosen by God rejected His commandement and died spiritually by acting against Him.
God did not abandoned us but instead reached out to bring us back from the bottom.
This is why the bible is full of sad stories. In a way it is like watching the news on TV.
People blame God for the actions of men instead of realizing that He is the first victim of this situation.
God often has to work with the less evil side. It does not mean that they are perfect.
Can you imagine that God had to work with such people and try to raise them. That is a pretty miserable situation which He get blamed for.
It is the same thing during 20th century. During the cold war God was not on the side of Atheist Communism. How could He be on the side that denied His existence and killed millions and millions of people. Was the other side perfect and always righteous ? No at all
During world war II, could God be on the side of Hitler Germany and its allies ? No
The sad part is that both sides are His own children killing each other. Can you imagine a father who has his children fighting. Which side should he take ? That is God situation
How pitiful !!!
God had to prepare a nation to receive the Messiah on the world level. Eventually this nation rejected that Messiah after all the work it tooks to get to that point.
Since the first murder of Abel by Cain recorded in Genesis, you can notice that in all conflicts, there is always a Cain and an Abel side.
Cain always attacks first . Abel which is on God side does not. Abel wants peace but ends up having to defends himself.

 

[Thief]

I'm going to expand the perimeter just a bit...so I can make my point clearly.
It's not just the Bible.

When you read Scripture there is intent or need in the effort.
Perhaps you think of it as self improvement.
Perhaps you feel it benefits all and everyone.

Some people make their approach scholastically...it's good reading.
Some say it's all made up...no history...no proving.

But in every case...with every one who picks up the book....a change will take place.
That change has as many variables as the number of people who pick up the book.

Now here's the rub. I have been exposed to Scripture.
I believe in life after death.
Someone will ask....and I won't be able to say...'nay'.
Having been exposed to Scripture, my plea of ignorance has been removed.
I can't say I don't know such things.

Rub a little harder....
The Devil knows the Scriptures....all of them.
He knows the prophets....all of them.
But it seems common belief the Devil doesn't live in heaven.
Therefore...knowledge is NOT a saving grace.

So...choose your prophet...and your book...
Say as you please.

But I suggest, you do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Because it will be done unto you as you did unto others.
It's not just a code of behavior.
It is fair warning.

 

[Caricus]

People blame God for the actions of men instead of realizing that He is the first victim of this situation

I disagree with this as God commanded his followers to slaughter people even including the children. When the don't do as he says then he rebukes them!

So are you saying that God was blameless and men should of commited genocide so it was mans fault?

How could He be on the side that denied His existence and killed millions and millions of people

Spanish inquisition! I will leave it at that.

For me when I read the Bible and NT I see two Gods. One angry, one full of love. This to me shows inconsistency.

However, luckliy enough for me I take the bible to be a metophorical book with some historical truth thrown in. These wars and atrocious acts were commited and men used religion to give them credence.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I disagree with this as God commanded his followers to slaughter people even including the children. When the don't do as he says then he rebukes them!

So are you saying that God was blameless and men should of commited genocide so it was mans fault?.

This is indeed what the Bible puts forth. So is it true, or is the Bible not god's word?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

In our world, you have peace and you have goodness. And then you have those who would do everything in their power to disrupt that peace and to corrupt that goodness. A Bible-followers looks at those parts of the Bible, the parts about war and killing, and understands that as people who are truly concerned with love and peace, we must fight against those who would destroy said peace.

What sort of peace was Jephthah's daughter going to destroy?

 

[TheKnight]

What sort of peace was Jephthah's daughter going to destroy?

I'm not sure I understand how your question relates to the part of my post that you quoted.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm not sure I understand how your question relates to the part of my post that you quoted.

You portrayed killing in the Bible as a matter of a battle between "peace and goodness" and the forces that want to disrupt peace and corrupt goodness.

The story of Jephthah and his daughter is one example of killing in the Bible. I just wondered whether you could tell us who in this story was on the side of "peace and goodness" and who was on the side of disruption and corruption.

 

[Quagmire]

I guess I want to get other people's viewpoints on something that's been bothering me. When I read the Bible, I see some horrible things in there like war and plundering, things I could never call good. My sense of empathy and compassion won't allow me to see it as good, but then I see some people saying it's good and even loving on God's part. This is where it really bothers me. Isn't it bad when people start to totally redefine words in their minds to justify terrible things? Let's face it, what the Bible says Israel did to the Canaanites is not loving, not compassionate, not merciful, and not good. You have to totally redefine the meanings of those concepts to say such. Doesn't this suggest that it's dangerous and de-sensatizing to a society to read this book in this sense, literally?

The thing is, Yosef, the Bible isn't a single book telling a single story or putting forth a single, consistent philosophy (or even a single, consistent theology). It's a collection of books reflecting different ideologies, written or collected by different people, in different stages of social development, for different purposes.

You can look at the stories in Deuteronomy and Joshua and all you're really looking at is the standard nomadic tribesmen meets sedentary, civilized society scenario, told in typical hero-worshiping retrospective style by the descendants of these tribesmen.

Once you get into the prophets you're looking at the writings of social reformers who's ethical level is amazingly progressive for their time and place.

Even the much maligned code of laws in the Torah, taken in the context of time, place, and political climate, deserves credit for it's relatively high level of social consciousness and egalitarianism;

Provisions are made for the poor, the old, for the humanitarian treatment of slaves, the welfare of strangers.

An eye for an eye" might seem barbaric by modern standards but it was a major improvement over the "you take my eye, I cut off your head, your relatives kill 2 of my relatives, we kill 3 of your's..." feud mentality that it was meant to replace.

Taken together the collection contains history, mythology, philosophy, poetry,...

I guess "good or bad" depends on how you approach it and what you're expecting to get out of it.

 

[TheKnight]

You portrayed killing in the Bible as a matter of a battle between "peace and goodness" and the forces that want to disrupt peace and corrupt goodness.

The story of Jephthah and his daughter is one example of killing in the Bible. I just wondered whether you could tell us who in this story was on the side of "peace and goodness" and who was on the side of disruption and corruption.

Ahh. Then I was unclear. Not all killing is a matter of war and fighting against destroying peace. I apologize because I realize I made it sound like that.

Obviously this was a case where Jepthah made a vow and went to keep his vow (at his daughters behest). I would say that in this case Jepthah made a mistake in making the vow in the first place.

My intial post was in reference to cases where killing was commanded or where it was done as an act of war.

 

[uss_bigd]

I guess I want to get other people's viewpoints on something that's been bothering me. When I read the Bible, I see some horrible things in there like war and plundering, things I could never call good. My sense of empathy and compassion won't allow me to see it as good, but then I see some people saying it's good and even loving on God's part. This is where it really bothers me. Isn't it bad when people start to totally redefine words in their minds to justify terrible things? Let's face it, what the Bible says Israel did to the Canaanites is not loving, not compassionate, not merciful, and not good. You have to totally redefine the meanings of those concepts to say such. Doesn't this suggest that it's dangerous and de-sensatizing to a society to read this book in this sense, literally?

have you read the whole bible yosef?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

have you read the whole bible yosef?

Yep and it doesn't convince me. I bet if you're like most Christians I've ever spoken to, you'll try to sweep that whole slaughter of the Canaanites deal under the rug and point out to me how wonderful the New Testament is. Am I right?

 

[uss_bigd]

Yep and it doesn't convince me. I bet if you're like most Christians I've ever spoken to, you'll try to sweep that whole slaughter of the Canaanites deal under the rug and point out to me how wonderful the New Testament is. Am I right?

if you read the the bible free from Bias sir, you will see that the world turned away from GOD, this includes the canaanites.

The israelites were the chosen people, they killed the canaanites becuase GOD did not want them to be corrupted by the canaanites.

but if you havent read that part, then you havent read the entire bible.:beach:

 

[Rainbow Mage]

The israelites were the chosen people, they killed the canaanites becuase GOD did not want them to be corrupted by the canaanites.

Oh and you think I'm just supposed to accept that do you, just because your book says so? How would the Canaanites have corrupted them, please enlighten me?

 

[uss_bigd]

Oh and you think I'm just supposed to accept that do you, just because your book says so? How would the Canaanites have corrupted them, please enlighten me?

Would you send your virgin daughter to be friends with girls who thinks sex with anybody is ok?

you said you knew what love is, then i will assume your answer is "no"

GOD is the owner of life, He created it. he can choose to take lives becuase he can return it.

The canaanites worshipped Baal, GOD didn't want the isrealites to do the same.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

The canaanites worshipped Baal, GOD didn't want the isrealites to do the same.

Nah, cause of that whole jealous god thing. Amazing to me how a being who is supposedly almighty can be jealous of other gods. What does he have to be jealous of? Here's the deal, I can write a book that says god wants me to bomb abortion clinics, then I can go out there and do it and say that god told me to. Think that explaination would fly in court these days? Neither would what the Bible puts forth