Greetings my friend,
Did I not quote you from your post #171?
I think that I understand your position on the spirit of YAHWEH ELOHIM, but I do not think that you understand my position.
Perhaps we are misunderstanding each other.
I maintain that the spirit of ELOHIM is in no way physical!
That is what I stated too, so I am at a loss to understand why you think I said it was physical. God's spirit is his power, exercised by him through various agencies to accomplish his will. It is not a person, it was used to create that which is physical, but it itself is an invisible force, and so incredibly powerful, as the universe testifies.
Accordingly, what does the gift of holy spirit mean to you, JayJayDee?
The gift of the holy spirit is the anointing and empowering of a faithful and dedicated servant of the Most HIgh. In ancient Israel, God granted his spirit to his servants the prophets who were empowered to deliver judgment messages, predict the outcomes of events and also perform miracles on occasion.
In Christian times some were given a unique invitation to fulfill a special commission to become "kings and priests" with Jesus in heaven. (Rev 20:6)
Initially, when Christianity was in its infancy, miraculous gifts accompanied the implanting of God's spirit in these "chosen ones". Once the congregations were firmly established, "powerful works", which Paul described as "the traits of a babe" were no longer needed. "Love" would now identify Christ's disciples. (John 13:34, 35; 1 Cor 13:4-11)
Even Jesus indicated that powerful works were not an identifying mark of his true followers. He said "many" would believe that these 'works' were proof of the operation of holy spirit, but they were wrong. He said he "NEVER" knew these ones, and even called them "workers of lawlessness". (Matt 7:21-23)
The apostle Paul identifies what it means to be anointed with God's spirit....
"For all who are led by Gods spirit, these are Gods sons. For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: Abba, Father! The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are Gods children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together" (Rom 8:14-17)
The expression "ABBA FATHER", as you are probably aware, is an expression of intimate affection....of a child to his father.
I do not believe that ALL Christ's followers get this unique invitation, even though Jesus' true disciples are all God's children. This is because the official invitation was not issued until after Messiah's death and resurrection. Because these are a finite number, (like the positions in any ruling body) when all the positions are filled, the rest will have the same destination as their pre-Christian brothers and sisters. Everlasting life in paradise conditions on earth.
There are two separate groups of believers who are saved by Jesus' ransom sacrifice.
Those whom Jesus chose to be "joint heirs" with him as rulers in his Kingdom, (as mentioned above) and those who will live on earth who survive the "great tribulation" at the end of the present system of things.
Others, who are not of the "heavenly calling" of both pre-Christian times and modern times, will come back "in the resurrection on the last day" (John 11:23, 24) to be restored to life on earth...the place where God originally intended man to live.
"And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel" (Rev 7:4)
"After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb. (Rev 7:9, 10)
"And in response one of the elders said to me: These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from? So right away I said to him: My lord, you are the one that knows. And he said to me: These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Revelation 7:13-14)
"for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the worlds beginning until now, no, nor will occur again." (Matt 24:21)
I hope you can see what I am trying to say.....
And if you would be so kind, upon whom was the spirit of ELOHIM first breathed?
God's spirit was upon creation, so his very first use of his spirit, (that we know of) was the creation of his "firstborn". This unique "only begotten" son was the first of God's creative activities. He is "only begotten" because he is the only direct creation of God in existence. With this "master worker" at his side, this firstborn son fabricated everything existing, both in the spirit realm and in the earthy one. (Col 1:15, 16; Prov 8:22, 30)
The first living beings to breathe air were the ones created by God before humans.
Humans were the only physical beings in existence to be made in the image of God and his son. (Gen 1:26, 27) That means that they possessed faculties and qualities that are not seen in the animal kingdom. Animals have no moral capacity and have no concept of the future. They do not plan and they do not make decisions based on future outcomes. They operate purely by inbuilt programming, which has been called instinctive wisdom.
We take all those capacities for granted.
Animals were not designed to live forever...there is a circle of life that is carried on perpetually. Only humans are promised everlasting life.
But it was not by means of reincarnation as many would like to assert.
I am curious to understand your belief system Latuwr. You list yourself as Agnostic but obviously have Jewish roots? Yes?
Blessings to you.
Jay
