Reincarnation

[Otherright]

I'm not into noetics and power of the mind stuff myself. I'm more interested in what quantum biology has to say about things, and quantum biology, theoretically allows for reincarnation.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm not into noetics and power of the mind stuff myself. I'm more interested in what quantum biology has to say about things, and quantum biology, theoretically allows for reincarnation.

This sentence would make more sense if quantum biology was actually something.

 

[Otherright]

This sentence would make more sense if quantum biology was actually something.

I've noticed by you postings that you may tend to believe that you know everything ever written on the subject of science, but there may be a few things you haven't observed yet.

The word "quantum" comes from the latin "quantus," for "how much." It doesn't necessarily refer to Star Wars space travel and television shows like Quantum Leap.

You see consciousness emerges, at its roots, at a quantum level.

A photon is a single quantum of light, and is referred to as a "light quantum". The energy of an electron bound to an atom (at rest) is said to be quantized, which results in the stability of atoms, and of matter in general. This is regarded by physicists as part of the fundamental framework for understanding and describing nature at the infinitesimal level.
Quantum biology refers to these applications to biological objects and problems.

 

[Riverwolf]

There's even the Randi Foundation- they offer $1 million as a prize to anyone who can prove supernatural abilities, but in decades, none of the hundreds of applicants have gotten through even a preliminary test.

It actually just occured to me that a reward for displaying abilities would not motivate a real Siddhi (one who has such powers) to come forward to be tested, because they would be renunciates; they would have no desire for money, or any other thing of this world. In their minds, they don't even own the clothes they wear.

 

[Penumbra]

It actually just occured to me that a reward for displaying abilities would not motivate a real Siddhi (one who has such powers) to come forward to be tested, because they would be renunciates; they would have no desire for money, or any other thing of this world. In their minds, they don't even own the clothes they wear.

Then they can give it to charity.

More importantly, they'd show the world what they say is true.

 

[Otherright]

Then they can give it to charity.

More importantly, they'd show the world what they say is true.

The question is, what is their investigative method?

 

[Penumbra]

The question is, what is their investigative method?

Those that claim to have a supernatural ability apply and explain it, and then they work with a member from the foundation to agree on a preliminary test. The applicant is mainly tasked with designing the test, and it's checked and possibly changed to meet empirical standards to the satisfaction of the group. Once agreed, they can attempt the preliminary test. If they pass the preliminary test, they get to take a more involved test to make sure it wasn't a fluke (since it would be quite an extraordinary thing). The more involved test is basically the same, except possibly longer with more conclusive results. So far, nobody has passed the preliminary test, so none of the more involved tests have been performed.

So the hundreds of applicants for the last 50 years have not passed their own test.

Lots of supernatural things are testable. Reincarnation would be a fairly difficult one for this test, but depending on the claim not necessarily impossible. More importantly, the point of my post was to disagree that scientists haven't taken the time to test these sorts of things.

 

[Otherright]

Those that claim to have a supernatural ability apply and explain it, and then they work with a member from the foundation to agree on a preliminary test. The applicant is mainly tasked with designing the test, and it's checked and possibly changed to meet empirical standards to the satisfaction of the group. Once agreed, they can attempt the preliminary test. If they pass the preliminary test, they get to take a more involved test to make sure it wasn't a fluke (since it would be quite an extraordinary thing). The more involved test is basically the same, except possibly longer with more conclusive results. So far, nobody has passed the preliminary test, so none of the more involved tests have been performed.

So the hundreds of applicants for the last 50 years have not passed their own test.

Lots of supernatural things are testable. Reincarnation would be a fairly difficult one for this test, but depending on the claim not necessarily impossible. More importantly, the point of my post was to disagree that scientists haven't taken the time to test these sorts of things.

I don't believe in noetics anyway.

I can, however, see how reincarnation can be applied at a quantum level. Not necessarily tested, but theoretically, it can be applied to quantum mechanics.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

I do not have so much of an issue with reincarnation, after all I happened naturally as opposed to supernaturally through divine intervention and if it can happen naturally it can happen again. However, I do have a huge issue with those who claim they can remember their past lives. I think there is no evidence I know of that goes beyond people's personal anecdotes. I also take a strong dislike to those so called “professional hypnotherapists” who exploit the market of believers of past live memories, and ripping them off. I personally would never go near one of those charlatans with a barge pole.

 

[LuisDantas]

It actually just occured to me that a reward for displaying abilities would not motivate a real Siddhi (one who has such powers) to come forward to be tested, because they would be renunciates; they would have no desire for money, or any other thing of this world. In their minds, they don't even own the clothes they wear.

That makes sense.

Of course, I can't help but wonder if it is not a matter of people with sufficient wisdom realizing that talk of reincarnation is simply not healthy. A symbolic concept that was abused to the point of being best avoided entirely these days.

 

[ellenjanuary]

What do you think about the possibility of reincarnation?


It is a hallmark of Eastern religions. Science tells us it may be the most scientifically plausible possibility. Many very serious researchers are looking into evidence of its existence. Kabbalism even speaks to it.

What do you think about it, and the directions it is taking in our culture?

I see it as more of the same - people having problems with "the problem of evil." When theology in general catches up with ellen, it will be easily shown that there is no "problem of evil" with the consideration of evolution and the zero-sum game.

I ain't getting reincarnated, I am returning to God.

 

[Riverwolf]

Then they can give it to charity.

More importantly, they'd show the world what they say is true.

If that's even a concern for them.

Another thing is that most Siddhis are recluses, many, if not all, of whom may not even be aware of the test, let alone have the means to take it available to them.

 

[Penumbra]

If that's even a concern for them.

People wrote down texts, promote belief, etc.

But then it's not a concern for those that supposedly have supernatural abilities?

 

[Riverwolf]

People wrote down texts, promote belief, etc.

But then it's not a concern for those that supposedly have supernatural abilities?

I edited my post. Most reports of Siddhis that I've seen are witness accounts; the only claim I've seen of a "Siddhi" claiming his own powers, who AFAIK hasn't been investigated yet, is Paramahamsa Yogananda.

 

[Muffled]

I see it as more of the same - people having problems with "the problem of evil." When theology in general catches up with ellen, it will be easily shown that there is no "problem of evil" with the consideration of evolution and the zero-sum game.

I ain't getting reincarnated, I am returning to God.

Although I wish you good luck, I am curious how you think you can trump God on this.

 

[Andywelikandy]

We are talking about reincarnation in general. What do you think?

To give the opinion of the Holy Bible reincarnation is impossible. Why? Because when a human being dies the next step is the Judgment of the Creator God when He decides whether the person goes to heaven or hell. Heaven and hell are both places of eternal life. Jesus Christ taught about both, in fact more about hell than heaven.

 

[Andywelikandy]

I edited my post. Most reports of Siddhis that I've seen are witness accounts; the only claim I've seen of a "Siddhi" claiming his own powers, who AFAIK hasn't been investigated yet, is Paramahamsa Yogananda.

According to the Holy Bible Satan has the power and the ability to impersonate. It means he can get into a person and pretend to be another person. Thus Satan pretends to be a god teaching truth. Satan appears as an angel of light/truth to human beings who do not have the Holy Spirit in them. Here it is:

1. 2 Corinthians 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself ...
   biblehub.com/2_corinthians/11-14.htm
   And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. for. 2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through …
   

 

[Harikrish]

To give the opinion of the Holy Bible reincarnation is impossible. Why? Because when a human being dies the next step is the Judgment of the Creator God when He decides whether the person goes to heaven or hell. Heaven and hell are both places of eternal life. Jesus Christ taught about both, in fact more about hell than heaven.

The bible already teaches incarnation that Jesus is the incarnate of God, where God has taken a human form in Jesus. It is not unlikely Jesus's second coming is his reincarnation in a different form, a higher form where he has all authority over heaven and earth.

 

[Riverwolf]

According to the Holy Bible Satan

NECROMANCER! NECROMANCER!

In any case, "according to the Bible" doesn't mean anything to me. The book has no more authority over me than any other sacred text or body of Lore.

Yogananda was not a devil, for the record. He was very much a human being.

 

[Levite]

What do you think about the possibility of reincarnation?
It is a hallmark of Eastern religions. Science tells us it may be the most scientifically plausible possibility. Many very serious researchers are looking into evidence of its existence. Kabbalism even speaks to it.

What do you think about it, and the directions it is taking in our culture?

I do believe in gilgulei neshamot (the concept of reincarnation in Kabbalah), not only because I like the metaphysical aesthetic of the idea, but because I think it solves a very important theological issue.

Jews don't believe in Hell. Like most Jews, I also don't believe in Gehinnom (the closest analogue our tradition has to Hell, a kind of limited purgatory), because I dislike the idea that the best solution God can come up with for unresolved sin is torturous punishment in the afterlife.

I very much believe God is compassionate and forgiving; like many of our rabbis, I believe that what God truly wants from one who sins is teshuvah (repentance), because true teshuvah brings one who has sinned to greater wisdom and compassion, and they are not only able to avoid the same sin again, but to help others become better people.

But I also believe that God is just, and that there must be teshuvah and an effort made at reparation for our transgressions before our souls are permitted entry into Olam ha-Ba (the World To Come, our analogue for Heaven). Yet many die without having done teshuvah or made any reparation for their transgression.

Therefore, gilgulei neshamot provides the perfect paradigm of limitless opportunities to do teshuvah, to do positive acts as metaphysical reparation for past transgressions.

Plus, of course, as the Kabbalists point out, every Jew is obligated for all 613 of the commandments, yet no single individual could perform them all in one lifetime: some are only for kohanim (priests), some are for women but not for men, some for men but not for women, some can only be fulfilled when a Temple is in existence, some are dependent upon time and place and thus by chance may be unfulfillable to given individuals. We need more than one lifetime, more than one incarnation in order to fulfill all 613 commandments.

So I believe we are sent back as many times as is necessary for us to fulfill all our obligations, learn wisdom and compassion, and "balance our scales" so that our overall number and weight of positive acts appropriately outbalances our overall number and weight of transgressions. I personally believe that at that point, we are able to enter Olam ha-Ba if we wish, or to continue returning to live in this world in order to teach and engender wisdom and compassion in others.

I think this is a much healthier theology than afterlife punishment, much less eternal damnation. I kind of wish more religious communities and schools of thought would embrace it.