Reincarnation

[Spartan]

Actually your way off base, because large segments of the Jews believed in reincarnation and Jesus was a Jew. In fact John the Baptist was considered the reincarnation of Elijah, I believe.

I don't see that as being correct.

"Elijah did not die; he was taken to heaven in a whirlwind as he rode in a chariot of fire (2 Kings 2:11). Arguing for a reincarnation (or a resurrection) of Elijah misses that point. If anything, the prophecy of the Elijah “to come” would have been viewed as Elijah’s physical return to earth from heaven. Second, the Bible is quite clear that John the Baptist is called “Elijah” because he came in the “spirit and power of Elijah” (Luke 1:17), not because he was Elijah in a literal sense. John the Baptist is the New Testament forerunner who points the way to the arrival of the Lord, just as Elijah filled that role in the Old Testament (and might again in the future—see Revelation 11). Third, Elijah himself appears with Moses at Jesus’ transfiguration after John the Baptist’s death. This would not have happened if Elijah had changed his identity into that of John (Matthew 17:11–12). Fourth, Mark 6:14–16 and 8:28 show that both the people and Herod distinguished between John the Baptist and Elijah. Finally, proof that this John the Baptist was not Elijah reincarnated comes from John himself. In the first chapter of John the Apostle’s gospel, John the Baptist identifies himself as the messenger of Isaiah 40:3, not as the Elijah of Malachi 3:1. John the Baptist even goes so far as to specifically deny that he was Elijah (John 1:19–23)."

Was John the Baptist really Elijah reincarnated?

 

[Spartan]

Conversely, show me one that has objective evidence to be true. Show me scientific evidence and present your argument.

That's lame. Science cannot "prove" OR DISPROVE a resurrection or a miracle. And for someone who claims 90% of the Bible is false, there must be something you can point to in the Gospels to make your case. Otherwise you've got no credibility in that section of the Bible. So where's your false Gospel examples?

 

[Lyndon]

i think you'd be well advised to study Jewish history before you deny reincarnation

 

[Spartan]

No, there is no evidence of reincarnation, there is no evidence the gods exist. We take it on faith.

We take it not only on faith but on lack of evidence.

But there is also no evidence anything in the Bible is true.

Sure there is. There's an abundance of evidence. Numerous individuals and events mentioned in the Bible have been confirmed in non-Biblical works.

List of biblical figures identified in extra-biblical sources: List of biblical figures identified in extra-biblical sources - Wikipedia

In addition, there's a great deal of historical evidence Jesus. You just have to do your homework. Recommended reading:

"The Historical Jesus," by scholar Dr. Gary Habermas;
"New Evidence that Demands a Verdict," by former skeptic Josh McDowell;
"Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics," by Dr. Norman Geisler;
"The Case for Christ," by Lee Strobel," and
"The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus," by Dr. Gary Habermas.

 

[SalixIncendium]

That's lame. Science cannot "prove" OR DISPROVE a resurrection or a miracle. And for someone who claims 90% of the Bible is false, there must be something you can point to in the Gospels to make your case. Otherwise you've got no credibility in that section of the Bible. So where's your false Gospel examples?

I never made any claims, so what is it again you as asking of me?

And thank you for your admission that you are unable to provide any objective evidence that the Gospels are, indeed, true.

 

[Spartan]

i think you'd be well advised to study Jewish history before you deny reincarnation

I have.

 

[SalixIncendium]

We take it not only on faith but on lack of evidence.

Who is we? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

 

[Spartan]

I never made any claims, so what is it again you as asking of me?

And thank you for your admission that you are unable to provide any objective evidence that the Gospels are, indeed, true.

Why do you make such sophomoric claims? You haven't done your homework. Recommended reading:

"The Historical Jesus," by scholar Dr. Gary Habermas;
"New Evidence that Demands a Verdict," by former skeptic Josh McDowell;
"Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics," by Dr. Norman Geisler;
"The Case for Christ," by Lee Strobel," and
"The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus," by Dr. Gary Habermas.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Why do you make such sophomoric claims? You haven't done your homework. Recommended reading:

"The Historical Jesus," by scholar Dr. Gary Habermas;
"New Evidence that Demands a Verdict," by former skeptic Josh McDowell;
"Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics," by Dr. Norman Geisler;
"The Case for Christ," by Lee Strobel," and
"The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus," by Dr. Gary Habermas.

Are these canned replies?

Once again, I've made no claims.

 

[Fool]

Definition: "Reincarnation, a major tenet of Hinduism, is when the soul, which is seen as eternal and part of a spiritual realm, returns to the physical realm in a new body. The belief is that a soul will complete this cycle many times - even hundreds of times, learning new things each time and working through its karma. This cycle of reincarnation is called samsara."

Analysis: From a Biblical standpoint, reincarnation is a false doctrine: “It is appointed for man to die ONCE, and after that to face the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).

In some Hindu teachings, if a person is "bad" in the present life, they may well wind up as a protected 'temple rat" in the next life. Which begs the question: If one is a 'bad' temple rat in that life, do they further regress to a temple cockroach, with an infinite regression back to an ill-mannered amoeba? What's more, who was the first person on earth reincarnated from, and which power on earth or in heaven facilitates those supposed rebirths?

Reincarnation voids the necessity of Christ for salvation and eternal life. If one can simply 'live again,' then what is the need to believe in Jesus? Therefore, Biblically speaking, the idea of reincarnation is Satanic.

The Bible makes it clear that Satan has been around since before the Garden of Eden. He knows what occurred in the lives of such people as Alexander the Great, Cleopatra, Hitler, and every other person who has lived since the creation of mankind. It is certainly not a “reach” then to believe that he and / or his demonic spirits can impart false memories of “prior lives” into the unregenerate minds of men, especially when those individuals are making an effort – such as in a seance – to establish “contact” with a former self or higher spiritual power.

Finally, there has never been any credible evidence that I've ever seen that reincarnation exists. If anyone has a good example of an individual who purported to have reincarnated, I'd like to see it.

a man, personality, does only live once. the spirit returns to the one who gave/sent it.

fyi, palingenesis, or paliggenesia, is used twice in bible. its the word in ancient times for metempsychosis; which was used before reincarnation. the word reincarnation in reference to a new embodiment was only coined in the mid 1850s.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Show me ONE (1 - Just ONE) person, place, or event in the Gospels that has been shown to be false. Cite the pertinent scripture(s) and present your argument.

Noah didn't exist, the exodus from Egypt didn't happen, not all the languages came from one place and time, Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden didn't exist, and according to Judaism the Devil doesn't exist either, and the rebellion never happened.

 

[ajay0]

Finally, there has never been any credible evidence that I've ever seen that reincarnation exists. If anyone has a good example of an individual who purported to have reincarnated, I'd like to see it.

Here are two good examples in both the west and east...

Reincarnated! Our son is a World War II pilot come back to life | Daily Mail Online

The Case of Shanti Devi — Carol Bowman, Past Life Therapy

 

[Jainarayan]

We take it not only on faith but on lack of evidence.

Lack of evidence of reincarnation? How about lack of evidence of:

• Jesus's resurrection.
• Jesus's ascension to Heaven.
• The parting of the Red Sea.
• Noah's flood.
• The existence of Satan.
• The existence of your God.
• The existence of Hell.
• The existence of Jesus. Outside the gospels, where's the evidence he existed? There's no Roman or Greek record of him. The gospels and Josephus wrote about him 70-100 years later. How about I write about Jesse James?

But you take those on faith.

Sure there is. There's an abundance of evidence. Numerous individuals and events mentioned in the Bible have been confirmed in non-Biblical works.

Even a broken clock is right twice a say.

In addition, there's a great deal of historical evidence Jesus.

Not buying it.

 

[Kapalika]

Most scientists believe the universe had a beginning. An eternal universe would violate the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. There is entropy going on. If the universe were infinitely old, total entropy would have already occurred by now. Energy conversions would have already ceased and the mean temperature of the universe would be approaching absolute zero (i.e. a dead universe).

It only "began" in it's current form with the Big Bang. If you looked at a couple of my other posts I mentioned that the physical Universe periodically unmanifests before manifesting again. It too, reincarnates, so to speak.

Scientists don't know what happened before the big bang, and so can't say that nothing existed before then, and in fact many try to answer what came before it in cosmology.

 

[Spartan]

Are these canned replies?

Once again, I've made no claims.

You did make a claim -

Noah didn't exist, the exodus from Egypt didn't happen, not all the languages came from one place and time, Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden didn't exist, and according to Judaism the Devil doesn't exist either, and the rebellion never happened.

Let me just take one of those - the Exodus from Egypt.

Evidence of the Exodus from Egypt

IBSS - Biblical Archaeology - Evidence of the Exodus from Egypt

Enjoy!

I'm also aware you could not demonstrate anything from the Gospels being shown to be fictitious.

 

[Kapalika]

The point being if life came into being from non-life, there would have been only one individual organism initially from which all forms of life naturally descended at some point in our universe. Right?

No.

Life could of emerged from nonlife in multiple locations seperated by millions of light years and billions of years throughout the Universe. We would expect this too, since if it has happened once i t's likely to of happened multiple times.

 

[Spartan]

Lack of evidence of reincarnation? How about lack of evidence of:

• Jesus's resurrection.
• Jesus's ascension to Heaven.
• The parting of the Red Sea.
• Noah's flood.
• The existence of Satan.
• The existence of your God.
• The existence of Hell.
• The existence of Jesus. Outside the gospels, where's the evidence he existed? There's no Roman or Greek record of him. The gospels and Josephus wrote about him 70-100 years later. How about I write about Jesse James?

But you take those on faith.

Even a broken clock is right twice a say.


Not buying it.

See my recommended reading list in Post #48

 

[Salvador]

Correct, and I see the direction you're taking here, but is there evidence that the number of beings on the planet from all taxonimical kingdoms hasn't plateaued at some point.

Reading this was kind of confusing until I realized you are conflating the jiva with atma but I'll get to that in a moment.

First of all, the simplest answer isn't always the correct one.

Second, reincarnation IS NOT a theory or explanation of how life came to be. Reincarnation deals with the atma not the bodies or jivas.



Why do you think that all life has one common ancestor? There is no reason to think this because if life can come from nonlife once, it likely has done this many seperate times throughout the current Universe.

Also again reincarnation doesn't attempt to, or need to, or even have anything to do with how life arises. It deals with the conciousness that is in that life, not how the living part of it came to be.

Consciousness might only be able to exist as embodied. There might not be any disembodied consciousness at any point. At the earliest point in our universe, the number of bodies with minds of consciousness in our universe was zero at which point there was no consciousness. Right? So then, consciousness could have emerged from the natural evolution of the body and mind. Right?

 

[Jainarayan]

Is Brahman really a 'soul' though? The term 'soul' never really sat well with me, and for some reason, referring to Brahman as a 'soul' sorta makes me cringe.

Nah, "soul" is just a convenient word. I don't even think "Self" is fully correct. I don't know that there's a true translation for Ātman or Paramātman. Prabhupada uses "Supersoul", other translators use Self.

 

[Jainarayan]

See my recommended reading list in Post #48

I did.