Rejection of Hell

[SageTree]

Rejection no... but here is a blurb from the Orthodox Church of America:

Heaven and Hell

The Kingdom of heaven is already in the midst of those who live the spiritual life. What the spiritual person knows in the Holy Spirit, in Christ and the Church, will come with power and glory for all men to behold at the end of the ages.


The final coming of Christ will be the judgment of all men. His very presence will be the judgment. Now men can live without the love of Christ in their lives. They can exist as if there were no God, no Christ, no Spirit, no Church, no spiritual life. At the end of the ages this will no longer be possible. All men will have to behold the Face of Him who “for us men and our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate… who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried . . . ” (Nicene Creed) All will have to look at Him whom they have crucified by their sins: Him “who was dead and is alive again.” (Revelation 1-.17-18)


For those who love the Lord, His Presence will be infinite joy, paradise and eternal life. For those who hate the Lord, the same Presence will be infinite torture, hell and eternal death. The reality for both the saved and the damned will be exactly the same when Christ “comes in glory, and all angels with Him,” so that “God may be all in all.” (I Corinthians 15-28) Those who have God as their “all” within this life will finally have divine fulfillment and life. For those whose “all” is themselves and this world, the “all” of God will be their torture, their punishment and their death. And theirs will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 8:21, et al.)

The Son of Man will send His angels and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. (Matthew 13:41-43)

According to the saints, the “fire” that will consume sinners at the coming of the Kingdom of God is the same “fire” that will shine with splendor in the saints. It is the “fire” of God’s love; the “fire” of God Himself who is Love. “For our God is a consuming fire” (Hebrews 12:29) who “dwells in unapproachable light.” (I Timothy 6:16) For those who love God and who love all creation in Him, the “consuming fire” of God will be radiant bliss and unspeakable delight. For those who do not love God, and who do not love at all, this same 66consuming fire” will be the cause of their “weeping” and their “gnashing of teeth.”
Thus it is the Church’s spiritual teaching that God does not punish man by some material fire or physical torment. God simply reveals Himself in the risen Lord Jesus in such a glorious way that no man can fail to behold His glory. It is the presence of God’s splendid glory and love that is the scourge of those who reject its radiant power and light.

... those who find themselves in hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo no greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in hell are deprived of the love of God… But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed! (St. Isaac of Syria, Mystic Treatises)

This teaching is found in many spiritual writers and saints: St. Maximus the Confessor, the novelist Fyodor Dostoevsky. At the end of the ages God’s glorious love is revealed for all to behold in the Face of Christ. Man’s eternal destiny - heaven or hell, salvation or damnation - depends solely on his response to this love.

I am including that mainly because it's different than most common conceptualization.




Personally, I'm not sure what will happen when I pass.
I believe that it'll be okay... it will happen when it's time.
What can I do but lead a good faithful life of thanks and service.



I know for sure that Heaven and Hell, are here and now in tangible ways.
and in the way described about above,
many do live in this place of torment in the face of love.

Some of that torment isn't God's love though....
It's the people who.... over assert themselves.... shall we say....

I mean... we aren't supposed to be the all consuming flames ourselves are we?

Well... in a way... but perhaps not in the pesky way.

Challenging, even, doesn't mean needing to being pushy.
Better to do than say, I think.


Bring the Kingdom to the world means recognizing that spark here and now,
kindling the flame, spreading light into the darkness, imo.

I believe that the shock of the light might be hard on the eyes at first...
but eventually the shadows will get used to the light,
and get to know it in their own way.

 

[Me Myself]

I dont aubscribe to an eternal hell concept.

Then again, most people wouldnt call me christian.

The only christian thing about me is that Jesus teachings resonate with me

 

[InChrist]

Rejection no... but here is a blurb from the Orthodox Church of America:

I am including that mainly because it's different than most common conceptualization.

Heaven and Hell

The Kingdom of heaven is already in the midst of those who live the spiritual life. What the spiritual person knows in the Holy Spirit, in Christ and the Church, will come with power and glory for all men to behold at the end of the ages.


The final coming of Christ will be the judgment of all men. His very presence will be the judgment. Now men can live without the love of Christ in their lives. They can exist as if there were no God, no Christ, no Spirit, no Church, no spiritual life. At the end of the ages this will no longer be possible. All men will have to behold the Face of Him who “for us men and our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate… who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried . . . ” (Nicene Creed) All will have to look at Him whom they have crucified by their sins: Him “who was dead and is alive again.” (Revelation 1-.17-18)


For those who love the Lord, His Presence will be infinite joy, paradise and eternal life. For those who hate the Lord, the same Presence will be infinite torture, hell and eternal death. The reality for both the saved and the damned will be exactly the same when Christ “comes in glory, and all angels with Him,” so that “God may be all in all.” (I Corinthians 15-28) Those who have God as their “all” within this life will finally have divine fulfillment and life. For those whose “all” is themselves and this world, the “all” of God will be their torture, their punishment and their death. And theirs will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 8:21, et al.)

Quote:
The Son of Man will send His angels and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. (Matthew 13:41-43)
​

According to the saints, the “fire” that will consume sinners at the coming of the Kingdom of God is the same “fire” that will shine with splendor in the saints. It is the “fire” of God’s love; the “fire” of God Himself who is Love. “For our God is a consuming fire” (Hebrews 12:29) who “dwells in unapproachable light.” (I Timothy 6:16) For those who love God and who love all creation in Him, the “consuming fire” of God will be radiant bliss and unspeakable delight. For those who do not love God, and who do not love at all, this same 66consuming fire” will be the cause of their “weeping” and their “gnashing of teeth.”
Thus it is the Church’s spiritual teaching that God does not punish man by some material fire or physical torment. God simply reveals Himself in the risen Lord Jesus in such a glorious way that no man can fail to behold His glory. It is the presence of God’s splendid glory and love that is the scourge of those who reject its radiant power and light.

Quote:
... those who find themselves in hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo no greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in hell are deprived of the love of God… But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed! (St. Isaac of Syria, Mystic Treatises)
​

This teaching is found in many spiritual writers and saints: St. Maximus the Confessor, the novelist Fyodor Dostoevsky. At the end of the ages God’s glorious love is revealed for all to behold in the Face of Christ. Man’s eternal destiny - heaven or hell, salvation or damnation - depends solely on his response to this love.


.

I think this is very clear and biblical. Thanks for posting it.

 

[SageTree]

I think this is very clear and biblical. Thanks for posting it.

Thanks InChrist.

Perhaps this isn't the time to point out anything about Mystic-Contemplative practices.
But I do want to say that this is how the practices help the Church Fathers understand the Word.

They read the Word, they meditate on the Word, they pray for understanding of the Word
they sit, completely focused in faith, on God.

It's not magic... It's just taking the time to develop a quiter mind with which one can hear more clearly, and act as a mouthpiece of God.

All that aside... I am glad that writing made sense to you.

:namastes

 

[InChrist]

They read the Word, they meditate on the Word, they pray for understanding of the Word
they sit, completely focused in faith, on God.

I see no problem with this kind of meditation upon the word of God and God Himself. The problem, I believe, occurs when one’s meditation departs from the revealed word of God in the scriptures and into accepting beliefs and ideas which are contrary to the truths which God has already stated.

 

[Shiranui117]

I see no problem with this kind of meditation upon the word of God and God Himself. The problem, I believe, occurs when one’s meditation departs from the revealed word of God in the scriptures and into accepting beliefs and ideas which are contrary to the truths which God has already stated.

I'm confident that the Desert Fathers and Hesychasts would agree wholeheartedly with you.

On-topic, SageTree, that link is awesome

 

[SageTree]

:namaste

I'm confident that the Desert Fathers and Hesychasts would agree wholeheartedly with you.

I agree, Brother.

On-topic, SageTree, that link is awesome

To the OCA or to the topic itself, because I'm preeeeetty sure you are the one who turned me onto the OCA

Thanks btw.

 

[HankHill]

I think the Seventh-Day Adventists also believe in annihilationism somewhat like the JWs, but they have some provision for temporary torture first if I'm not mistaken.

 

[ZooGirl02]

I really don't understand why some Christians reject the doctrine of Hell. There is clear evidence for it both in the Bible and in Sacred Tradition. Jesus clearly taught this doctrine and so did the Early Church Fathers which were taught by the apostles who were in turn taught by Jesus.

You need to read pretty much this entire chapter of Matthew but here is a section of it:

Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' Then he will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
(Matthew 25:41-46 RSV-CE)

Here, the outer darkness is a reference to Hell:

I tell you, many will come from east and west and sit at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth."
(Matthew 8:11-12 RSV-CE)

Here are a couple of quotes from the Early Church Fathers:

"Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death, how much more if a man corrupt by evil teaching the faith of God for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire: and so will anyone who listens to him" (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1–2 [A.D. 110]). - Saint Ignatius of Antioch

As you can see, that quote from Saint Ignatius of Antioch was written in 110 AD which is very close to the time of Christ.

"Fixing their minds on the grace of Christ, [the martyrs] despised worldly tortures and purchased eternal life with but a single hour. To them, the fire of their cruel torturers was cold. They kept before their eyes their escape from the eternal and unquenchable fire" (Martyrdom of Polycarp 2:3 [A.D. 155]). - Saint Polycarp

That one was written by Saint Polycarp in or around 155 AD. Again, that is very close to the time of Christ.

Here are a couple of links. The first one has more quotes from the Early Church Fathers with references to Hell and the second one has Scripture passages related to Hell.

The Hell There Is! | Catholic Answers

Scripture Catholic - HELL

 

[Brickjectivity]

Question: Was this thread originally in Christianity directory or has it been moved? I don't like to post controversial posts within green or blue directories. Sorry about that post.

 

[SageTree]

Question: Was this thread originally in Christianity directory or has it been moved? I don't like to post controversial posts within green or blue directories. Sorry about that post.

If you are a Christian, you are allowed to speak your piece in here.
Right or left leaning.

I have no idea where this originally was.

 

[Shiranui117]

I think it was here in the Christianity DIR originally ._.

 

[PastorClark]

in the bible when Jesus is talking about hell, he is referring to Gehenna, which was a pit in the south of Jerusalem, where they was dumping dead body's in and lighting them on fire.

Since Christianity is inherently Jewish and the bible is based off the Torah. Judaism has no concept of hell or Satan like Christianity is referring to.

 

[ZooGirl02]

in the bible when Jesus is talking about hell, he is referring to Gehenna, which was a pit in the south of Jerusalem, where they was dumping dead body's in and lighting them on fire.

Since Christianity is inherently Jewish and the bible is based off the Torah. Judaism has no concept of hell or Satan like Christianity is referring to.

That's really not a good argument against the existence of Hell. If Jesus was not really talking about Hell then why did all of the Early Church Fathers believe in the existence of Hell? The earliest Early Church Fathers were taught by the Apostles and the Apostles were taught by Jesus Christ.

 

[Shiranui117]

in the bible when Jesus is talking about hell, he is referring to Gehenna, which was a pit in the south of Jerusalem, where they was dumping dead body's in and lighting them on fire.

Since Christianity is inherently Jewish and the bible is based off the Torah. Judaism has no concept of hell or Satan like Christianity is referring to.

Yet it's clear that even Jesus Himself spoke of Satan in ways that we Christians still think of Satan today, rather than advocating the more Jewish view.

 

[Wolke]

Are there any Christian denominations or personal opinions held by Christians that reject or have a strong varying interpretation of Hell?

I specifically wish to know how certain Christians reject the notion of hell considering its usage in the Bible. I have seen this belief held by various 'Christians' and I have always found it an odd rejection of basic Christian dogma.

Only God is eternal, as well as His Paradise by virtue of its participation in the divine substance. The anguish of Hell consists in separation from God (Paul describes Hell as 'exclusion from the Lord'). As only God is eternal, and Hell is exclusion from God, the anguish of Hell cannot be eternal, but must be finite and relative. Moreover when Scripture proclaims that "God is Love," that implies the relativity and end of Hell.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I see hell as a state of spiritual deadness. I really hope that eventually even those in hell will be reconciled with the Father, even the devil and the fallen angels. I tend to believe that God will draw all creation to Himself and perfect it. After all, at the conclusion of all things, isn't even death and hell supposed to be destroyed? Notions of universal reconciliation aren't entirely unheard of in Catholicism: http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/universal_salvation_roman_catholic.html

 

[Clarity]

Are there any Christian denominations or personal opinions held by Christians that reject or have a strong varying interpretation of Hell?

I specifically wish to know how certain Christians reject the notion of hell considering its usage in the Bible. I have seen this belief held by various 'Christians' and I have always found it an odd rejection of basic Christian dogma.

I'm a garden variety protestant of no discernable note, and I reject the notion of an eternal hell outright. I don't see how the Bible supports it, nor does it appear to be a strongly held belief by the OT writers, on which Jesus based his views.

Those NT passages that discuss it are almost always in the context of a parable or phrophecy, both of which must be taken symbolically. Based on my reading of II Peter 3, Hell appears to be a man-made cataclysm that takes place at the world's end and is temporary.

(I read from a Bronze/Iron Age "destiny" point of view, and I find almost nobody in agreement with me. What I've noticed about almost all Christian doctrine is that it's devoid of Old Testament temperments. The writers of the OT, and for that matter almost all cultures of that period, have a view of fate 180 degrees out of phase with ours, and that is one of the primary causes of our misunderstanding of Jewish scripture. This takes some time to discuss and understand, so I don't think I can do it justice in this single answer.)

 

[Swordfall]

The Church holds that the severity of Hell is commensurate to one's sins, and what one deserves.

It's also the most reasonable belief of Hell- God is one of justice, not cruelty.