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Religion and Abortion
- Thread starter Rex
- Start date
Runt
Well-Known Member
Being largely agnostic, I cannot really speak for the religion I most closely associate my beliefs with (paganism), BUT I think most pagans have a "Pro-child, pro-choice" stance. Meaning that while we cherish children, and most of us would NEVER have an abortion ourselves, we believe that it should be a woman's right to choose, and not a decision made for us by the government.
Furthermore, the government is not supposed to make decisions based on religious views; however, too often of late religion is being tied directly into politics, and politicians use religious arguments when adcovating various policies (such as saying that "God" intended marriage to be between a man and a woman, and thus there should be an ammendment against gay marriage).
Furthermore, the government is not supposed to make decisions based on religious views; however, too often of late religion is being tied directly into politics, and politicians use religious arguments when adcovating various policies (such as saying that "God" intended marriage to be between a man and a woman, and thus there should be an ammendment against gay marriage).
Rex
Founder
Oh you bring up a hot topic for another debate post. "Gay Marriage" .
But back to the point of the right of the woman to make the choice. Do you find this to be very sexist. I have always thought it takes 2 to make a baby so the choice should reside in the parents if you are a Pro_Choice believer.
What do you think?
But back to the point of the right of the woman to make the choice. Do you find this to be very sexist. I have always thought it takes 2 to make a baby so the choice should reside in the parents if you are a Pro_Choice believer.
What do you think?
Runt
Well-Known Member
That IS sexist. But I don't think the decision should be made by men who don't know the woman at all. THAT is the problem. Male politicians are demanding that women be held responsible for bearing and possibly raising a child because they got pregnant, but are NOT demanding that men be held responsible for helping the woman get through the pregnancy, pay for medical costs, and support the child. If the man choses to abandon the woman and the baby as soon as he senses that he might have to show some responsibility, that is okay, but if the woman choses that SHE wants to abandon the responsibility herself, that is NOT okay.
Colin_Admin
Member
Runt said:
Very well put.
Again I agree with Runt.
Even when I was Christian I was Pro-Life. But I am not one of those people that thinks life and the world is black and white.
I am Pro-Life - but I do not want abortion made illegal. A contradiction? No. I understand that it is going to happen anyway. There are women and girls every day who feel they have no other choice - and I understand that. So would I rather them try it themselves- we've all heard the horror stories. Or would I rather they had it administered by a licensed professional... let's be reasonable.
Those people burning down abortion clinics and shooting Dr.s aren't helping anyone, but I know that's a small minority.
Where I have a problem is an abortion after the first trimester - come on... how often do you not know you are pregnant after 3 months? I am absolutely and without question against late term abortions and partial birth abortions - I'll save you the description if you don't know already.
And my other problem is women who have more than 1 barring extenuating circumstances (rape, incest, etc). Most hospitals administer the "morning after pill" in cases of rape, but in the event you don't go to the doctor and later become pregnant I can see that.
I knew a few girls in high school that had more than one strictly for birth control purposes and I would rip out their fingernails if I could, but that's just me.
GET THE PILL, COVER IT UP OR KEEP IT ZIPPED!!
EL
Even when I was Christian I was Pro-Life. But I am not one of those people that thinks life and the world is black and white.
I am Pro-Life - but I do not want abortion made illegal. A contradiction? No. I understand that it is going to happen anyway. There are women and girls every day who feel they have no other choice - and I understand that. So would I rather them try it themselves- we've all heard the horror stories. Or would I rather they had it administered by a licensed professional... let's be reasonable.
Those people burning down abortion clinics and shooting Dr.s aren't helping anyone, but I know that's a small minority.
Where I have a problem is an abortion after the first trimester - come on... how often do you not know you are pregnant after 3 months? I am absolutely and without question against late term abortions and partial birth abortions - I'll save you the description if you don't know already.
And my other problem is women who have more than 1 barring extenuating circumstances (rape, incest, etc). Most hospitals administer the "morning after pill" in cases of rape, but in the event you don't go to the doctor and later become pregnant I can see that.
I knew a few girls in high school that had more than one strictly for birth control purposes and I would rip out their fingernails if I could, but that's just me.
GET THE PILL, COVER IT UP OR KEEP IT ZIPPED!!
EL
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
Personally, I firmly believe in a woman's right to choose on matters of contraception and abortion which are important aspects of the right of privacy, respect for human life and freedom of conscience of women and their families.
The Unitarian Universalist Association strongly opposes any denial or restriction of federal funds or a Constitutional amendment that would prohibit or restrict access to legal abortion.
The Unitarian Universalist Association strongly opposes any denial or restriction of federal funds or a Constitutional amendment that would prohibit or restrict access to legal abortion.
Hi
I myself think that it is the woman's right to do what she wants to do, where will the line be drawn if governments and religions believe that can control the personal decision of a human being and that decision will effect no one but the person making that decision!
None of us can be the judge of any person in this type of situation, for we could never understand what one is feeling in this type of situation. Remember God loves us all, and through this love that is given us, we should understand and not mock or judge but just give the love that is given to us to them in there time of great suffering!
"But I trust in the Lord that I also myself should not judge, for I then would be a greater sinner than one who I think has sinned!"
^ Jesuit Mateo Ricci 1592 ^
jtb
I myself think that it is the woman's right to do what she wants to do, where will the line be drawn if governments and religions believe that can control the personal decision of a human being and that decision will effect no one but the person making that decision!
None of us can be the judge of any person in this type of situation, for we could never understand what one is feeling in this type of situation. Remember God loves us all, and through this love that is given us, we should understand and not mock or judge but just give the love that is given to us to them in there time of great suffering!
"But I trust in the Lord that I also myself should not judge, for I then would be a greater sinner than one who I think has sinned!"
^ Jesuit Mateo Ricci 1592 ^
jtb
Runt
Well-Known Member
While I am pro-choice, I have to disagree with this comment. The decision to abort a pregnancy does not just affect the person making that decision. It also affects the unborn but living child who in a few short months could survive completely independent of the mother's body. I believe that child should be allowed to live since it is unable to make the decision itself.
I believe abortion should only be allowed when a woman is in danger of dying or having other serious complications. If she is not in danger, she can carry that child for nine short months and then give the child up for adoption to relieve herself of the responsibility of raising it.
Many decisions to abort seem to come from an unwillingness to support a child once it is born, or the belief that a child will "ruin my life". Killing an unborn child for these reasons, in my opinion, is the same as killing a two or three or fifteen-year-old child because the mother does not want the responsibility of raising it. Once a child is out of the womb it is murder to kill it. Why is a child in the womb any different?
Even if it is not a fully developed human being when in the womb, it is still alive and in a state of development that makes it like an animal (harsh but true). At the very least, killing it would be like animal abuse.
A fetus has a separate dna structure from each parent, religious or not the child will be a child not a lizard or a liver. THe right to choose is to choose life. THe admendment used to justify it in America the 9 and 14. the 14th uses the term to deny life. That shild has just as much right to live as the mother does. It is murder and regardless of any religious standpoint "a person's a person no matter how small" as Dr. seuss said. Whether he was pro-choice or not the fact remains that fetus is going to be a human being no matter what and i strongly appose abortion, i will not condemn the people involved in the abortion however i do hope they see the existence of life that rests in them. Nothing is more precious than life and this denies human being the fundemental right to live becuase it is seen as an inconveience to the mother. The real choise should be to keep everything inside your pants or use protection. abortiton is also a poor excuse for not taking responsiblity for your actions. I will protest it till my last breath and i don't care if it is not a popular opinion or if it is a "lost cause" or what ever anyone think. Life is the ultimate right that any person anywhere is allowed. Its funny animals have more rights than humans at times where are our priorities well that we must find out on our own time.
I know that some may say that abortion is ok if the mother is in danger of dying. I think that it is God's will and also there is still life from deah in these cases but if both are at risk to die i'm not as sure but i will get back on that
I know that some may say that abortion is ok if the mother is in danger of dying. I think that it is God's will and also there is still life from deah in these cases but if both are at risk to die i'm not as sure but i will get back on that
classz123 said:
I can easily sypathize with your views, but I actually don't think life is the ultimate right - if I could only live by leeching off another person, that other person is the one that has the full right to decide whether s/he can be bothered, and if they can't, that's too bad for me; that applies not just to pregnancy, but to the sick, old etc. I don't think you can just demand that someone suffers just so that you can live. Most people would choose to suffer reasonably to preserve someone's life, of course, but it can't be required of them. So, its the mother who decides whether she wants to put in the effort. Even if her act caused it in the first place.
However, if the baby can live outside the womb, then she can't have an abortion. If the baby is not dependent on the mother, she can't kill it - that would be murder, no two ways about it. That the baby would be extremely distressed to be born prematurely and develop outside the womb is another issue - that of suffering. It should at the very least put a lot of pressure on the mother to carry it through, and I do think that she is highly immoral to go for premature birth unless there are very good reasons for it; by not having an earlier abortion she has in effect accepted responsibility for the well-being of the child, so you can't just renege on that because, say, the man left.
Yes, and that's great, but you could also say that she chose sex, and now because of that we can debate the ethics of abortion. In which case every woman should become baby factories because if at any time they aren't pregnant, some new person isn't getting a chance to debate the ethics of abortion. And that's not really reasonable.classz123 said:
More conservative christians believe in pre-destination which is the idea that everything is already determined to happen, however catholics and more liberal christian sect also believe that God gave us free will so we believe that it is the decision of the mother and not neccesarily God's direct intervention.