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Religion and Abortion

Mr Spinkles

Mr Spinkles

Mr
I cannot even begin to imagine how horrible that must be, painted wolf. Still, I think late term and partial birth abortion is a hideous solution to the problem.

I admit that the morning after pill and other kinds of procedures to stop very early pregnancy do not seem so inhumane to me--it's harder to feel bad for a group of embryotic cells than it is for a thumb-sucking, kicking, fully developed baby ready to be born.

But I no more support killing a baby caused by rape a couple of days before its born than I do a couple of days after its born. The question is where to draw the line. In my opinion it's been drawn barbaricly so that as long as a baby's head is still inside the womb, it can be killed.

At some point (right now it's the point at which the head leaves the womb) the child's right to be alive supercedes the imposed responsibility on the mother.
 
T

teapot_tall_and_yummy

Member
Abortion is sick. SICK. Most people do not realize the effects it has. It's not like going to the doctor to get a wart removed, your done and you go home. ITS TAKING A LIFE. It's painful. I've spoken with multiple women who have had more than one abortion. One of the women had children, and her son found out and immediately had nightmares of his mother trying to kill him, and had to have therapy. Last I heard, around 90% of women who have an abortion regret it later in life. That was a few years ago, and may not be right on. but it was a high percentage. many women deal with depression, suicide, and eating disorders because of abortions. and rape is no excuse. why justify one crime with another. why justify pain with more pain. children are gifts. and many peole are ingrateful recipients. youve been given something many people wnat and cant have and your saying screw it who cares im too selfish to think that this involves more than just me. its cowardice. and how anyone came up with these procedures is beyond me. One way to abort a child is to insert a saline solutin that burns the fetus. Another way is to chop up the baby and then suck it out. yummy, right kids? People say its a woman's choice to do what she wants with her body. well she had other choices. if she didnt want to be pregnant, she had the choice not to have sex. she had the choice to be on birth control. its murder. your allowing people to choose murder. its a CHILD. and its murder.
 
R

reebs

New Member
I love this topic of abortion. I strongly oppose abortion. Do I think that abortion should be made illegal? Yes. But I don't think that it HAS to be. I feel that everybody has a choice. Man or woman, you have a choice. I feel that humans should be responsible enough and smart enough to make the right choice. Things do happen for a reason!! If a woman becomes pregnant, why look at all the negatives? Look at the positives. You have the opportunity to change a child's life. You can kill it or keep it and help it flourish into a wonderful addition to the world. There shouldn't have to be a law to force someone to make the right choice. Another point: isn't it ironic that if someone gets into a car accident with a pregnant woman and kills her and her baby, it is considered a double murder?
 
Ceridwen018

Ceridwen018

Well-Known Member
painted wolf,

In response to what you said about having to carry the child of your attacker, I really do want to send you this site.

http://www.pamstenzel.com/

Pam Stenzel was conceived through a rape. Her mother seriously considered abortion, but ultimately decided to keep her baby and give it up for adoption. Pam is now one of the biggest speakers in the world on abstinence and safe sex, etc. I can tell you from experience, that she is certainly one of the most moving speakers I have ever seen.

The thing that stuck me the most when I was watching one of her tapes, was the realization that she had accomplished so much and was now helping so many people! If her mother had had an abortion (although the circumstances were terrible, I know) Pam would not be here today (obviously). And that really makes you think. No matter how well developed, no matter how conceived, all babies are on equal planes in that they all carry so much incredible potential for their lives, which for some technically havn't started yet. If a woman knew her baby was to be the next president, would she be so ready for that abortion? Of course not! But we need to take that into consideration, because anything is possible for the lives of these babies.

I urge you to check out Pam. Watch one of her movies. Not because I think you need a lesson in abstinance and safe sex (hehe), but just to hear her tell her story, and be blown away by her powerful message.
 
Ceridwen018

Ceridwen018

Well-Known Member
On partial birth abortion,

Also called '3rd trimester abortion' is no longer legal.

During the third trimester, the baby has the ability to live on its own, in an incubator, granted, but surviving nonetheless. Studies done of this procedure showed that the babies felt a great amount of pain. (the procedure is how Mr. Spinkles described it). Luckily, it has been recently outlawed, and I am ashamed to know that the inventor of such a procedure resides and set up the first clinic right in my town.

The ludicrous justification, that a baby is not born until its head is removed from the uterus, means that the babies would be completely delivered, all eccept for their heads, which would then be dealt with in the manner described above. Barbaric does not even begin to describe.

Another note: Abortion has been linked to breast cancer, and other female related cancers. (I don't have any souces on me right now, but I'll get some)
Basically explained, when a woman becomes pregnant, her body undergoes many internal changes, as far as the levels of hormones and such. This is all done to help the baby grow and keep the pregnancy healthy. Once an abortion is introduced, (which is an extremely unnatural process), all the sudden the baby is gone and all of those hormones and the like which were preparing for birth in both the breasts and the uterus are left without a job. They scatter, stay stagnant, whatever-- but the bottom line is, with no baby, they aren't supposed to be there and so all to often they cause insult to the cells around them, causing cancer.
Like I said, I'll find those sources for everyone!
 
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
however there are times abortion is nessisary...
ever heard of Harlequin Fetus ? :eek:mg:
There are some very nasty things that can go wrong.... Banning abortion outright also bans its use as a nessisary medical procedure..
Perhaps if pro-abortion activist used the same sort of gory pictures to promote thier agenda it wouldn't be an issue....

wa:-do
 
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Ceridwen

I'm glad that she has found such as good way to spend her life...
I'm glad that her mother was able to go through with what was obviously a heartwrenching desicion.

Everyone reacts to trauma diffently... some women would not have been able to handle it as well as her mother obviously did.

I'm not saying that women who have been raped should get abortions, but that women should have that option if they truely can not handle the trauma of the event.

Idealy that is what the 'morning after pill' was supposed to help handle... as it prevents pregnancy in the first place, so no need to worry about the whole abortion issue later.
Unfortunatly the FDA bent to political pressure on this one and is not letting the pill though, dispite reccomendations in favor of it.

wa:-do
 
Ceridwen018

Ceridwen018

Well-Known Member
painted wolf,

Wow really? The FDA isn't letting the morning after pill out at all, or just not as over the counter? *wrings hands nervously and loosens collar*
lol, j/k!
 
Mr Spinkles

Mr Spinkles

Mr
painted wolf are you sure about this? I really thought that the morning after pill is still accessible, and not restricted by law. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
 
Bastet

Bastet

Vile Stove-Toucher
I'm not sure if it works the same in the US, but here it has been available by way of a doctor's prescription, or a trip to the emergency room at a hospital. There has been talk about making it available over-the-counter, at pharmacies, but I don't know if this has happened yet.
 
T

teapot_tall_and_yummy

Member
When it comes to rape, how can you place the blame for a woman's trauma on an innocent child? :eek:mg: Wow, that's a little much. A rape is a horrible horrible thing. No doubt about it. But throught this horrible thing, joy can come out of it. A new life. A NEW LIFE WITH ENDLESS POSSIBILITIES. And the mother can give away her baby. Plenty of couples and single people are looking to adopt. And personally, I just think that the morning after pill is gonna encourage people to be more promiscuous because one of their great worries of getting pregnant is much much much much less.

i work next to an abortion clinic... the only one left in my town.. the one in which the practitioner (the word doctor doesnt fit, and im holding back the M word) is the same one who invented partial birth abortion. I've seen women pull out of that parking lot with the worst looks on their faces. I have been late to work because I have sat in the parking lot stunned by the looks on these women's faces. It's horrifying, tragic, chilling, and it hurts my heart.

And another note... pregnancy resulting from rape is not as common as people make it out to be. When someone is raped, a hostiel environment is created inside the woman. People who have trouble getting prenant can tell you that stress and such things do not help the egg to be fertilized. So pregnancy is not a common thing to result from rape.
 
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
yup, Plan B the 'morning after pill' was kept off the shelves.
check out:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-05-09-fda-morning-after_x.htm

this pill should not however be confused with RU486 the 'abortion pill'... wich is avalable with perscription and doctor supervision...

Plan B prevents pregnancy from happining much like other forms of birth control... its basicly a concentrated dose of the regular birth control pill...

personally I'm much more for this option than RU486...

and no, I don't blame the child... I understand the sort of mental trauma that is associated with rape and the difficult choices that go along with it...

I'm for letting women decide what is best for them not the old men in the government.

wa:-do
 
Bastet

Bastet

Vile Stove-Toucher
painted wolf said:
yup, Plan B the 'morning after pill' was kept off the shelves.
check out:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-05-09-fda-morning-after_x.htm

this pill should not however be confused with RU486 the 'abortion pill'... wich is avalable with perscription and doctor supervision...

Plan B prevents pregnancy from happining much like other forms of birth control... its basicly a concentrated dose of the regular birth control pill...

personally I'm much more for this option than RU486...
wa:-do
Click to expand...

Pardon my ignorance, but what's the difference between the two? It's always been called 'the morning after pill' here in Australia. At least, that's what I asked for the one time I needed it lol. As that was explained to me at the time by my doctor, it was a concentrated (double or triple), dose of the regular birth control pill (main active ingredient being Levonorgestrel). What it did, was bring on my period, thus preventing pregnancy...but it had to be taken within 72 hours of intercourse to be effective. The regular birth control pill, if taken when a woman is pregnant (since it is not 100% effective as contraception, a woman can fall pregnant without realising, and still be taking birth control), can cause miscarriage. How is this RU486 different from what my doctor gave me, or how is it different from the proposed over-the-counter 'Plan B'?

*edited to add*
I've just done a bit of searching, and from what I've found, they both prevent pregnancy in the same way - by disrupting the lining of the uterus, making it impossible for a fertilised egg (if there happens to be one), to attach itself. Bleeding may occur, or it may not. Depending on when you consider a fertilised egg to be 'life', you could call them both 'abortion pills'. I don't see how one is better or worse than the other...neither are considered effective after 72 hours of intercourse.
 
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
the difference is that one is contraceptive and the other an abortifact...

-'plan B' prevents the egg from attaching to the uterine wall, thereby preventing pregnancy...
-RU486 causes the woman to shed the uterine layer that contains the egg thereby aborting the implanted egg... this can be dangerous and must be supervised by a doctor.. RU486 is actually a two drug combination and both pills must be taken to be effective.

pregnancy starts with the implanting of the egg into the uterine wall...

here is planned partenthoods explanation:
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/library/birthcontrol/ecandma.html

wa:-do
 
O

OctoberTheHottie

Member
Are you sure there is a time limit on the RU486 pill?? I know the morning after is only effective up to 72 hours, so basically working like birth control in my opinion, but I thought the other pill could be used much later. I have heard that RU486 is just like an abortion except without the surgical procedure, it causes extreme pain to the abdomen until the pregnancy is ended and I thought it was an alternative for patients that couldn't have a surgical procedure for whatever reason, or I guess didn't want to?? I don't know how it works exactly, but I hear it is no walk in the park....
 
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