Religion and Chauvinism

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Good morning to you all,

Judaism, Christianity and Islam (the big 3) all predict chaos, death and destruction at the end of the world. If this does not occur, the scripture is wrong. So, can we, as humans, dispel religion and work towards preventing this chaos?

And if we do, should we ignore the predictions of chaos, death, destruction, etc,. coming from certain environmentalist circles (the major one, but by no means the only one, being climate change)? Or how about the more recent reincarnations of Malthus' work in e.g., The Population Bomb? Or the numerous (often mutually exclusive) prophecies of collapsing nations and so forth due to economic policies?

It would appear that there are plenty of doomsday predictions which neither concern nor require any religious components.

To be religious, in a sense, unless I am wrong, you must accept the destructive outcome above.

You listed three religions. Even if you were right about these three, why now equate "religion" with them?

Does Religion lead to Chauvinism and therefore Fanaticism and therefore war?

No. Humans have certain inclinations in general, and particualr ideologies can lead to war or to humanitarian work or any number of things.

Many religious groups have "an extreme and unreasoning partisanship" due to absolute believe in their faith.

Devotion to a particular ideology is hardly limited to religion.

Can we breakdown the 'unreasoning partisanship' in Religion?

Well, we're off to a good start. We have some definitions, some text from wikipedia, and just about the most baseless, ill-formed, biased, and illogical analysis of not only religion, but also general social dynamics, history, social psychology, etc. Clearly, we're good to go.

All religions preach to 'love thy neighbour'...

No, they don't.

What are you thoughts, if any, on the end of days.

I think it was a movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger.

 

[Falvlun]

And some, it seems, will not agree that man's ignorance and hatred for the other is inborn.

:yes:

Last I checked, humans aren't just rampaging about all the time. Large groups of humans actually live together quite peaceably for large amounts of time. Violence tends to be rare, which is what makes it so shocking when it does happen.

Violence and hatred isn't arbitrary. It doesn't "just happen". There are reasons that trigger it. The reasons are varied, and some may be legitimate, some may be petty, some may be culturally taught, etc.

Religion is one of those reasons. Religion also happens to be a very powerful motivator, and provides a very strong demarcation of us vs them, which, imo, accounts for the intensity, duration, and solidarity of religious conflicts.

It's strange. You guys would probably have no issue acknowledging that economic disparity or racial tensions or sports can cause riots, violence, etc. But as soon as someone suggests that religion can trigger this, it's all "oh no, religion couldn't possibly be responsible! Violence isn't caused. It's just innate! It's just bubbling at the surface just waiting to break out for no reason!"

 

[atanu]

Religions tend to provide just another way-- and generally a very compelling and important way-- to divide people. Protestants vs Catholics, Hindus vs Muslims, Jews vs Muslims, Christians vs Native American beliefs, etc, etc.

Though, I acknowlege that some people will never believe that religion can be responsible for any ills in the world.

And some, it seems, will not agree that man's ignorance and hatred for the other is inborn.

For example, i will show from a thread that I made yesterday.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/145729-why-important-muslims.html


You will see that the interpretations are man made, although the scripture is not. Man made interpretations promote conflicts based on the assumption of absolute separateness between man and man and between man and environment, arisen out of sensual outgoing view. Whereas, the scripture asks us to see that the differences are underlain by an indivisible substratum. All scripture teach about a single source of all beings, their intelligence and their lives.

:yes:

----Religion is one of those reasons. Religion also happens to be a very powerful motivator, and provides a very strong demarcation of us vs them.--"

I will say it in another way.

I agree that relgion seems to provide an avenue for expression of man's desires. I also agree that belief of someone or some group that one (or the group) is God's representative to teach and rectify others, is the most harmful and violent belief.
.
But such kind of belief may also take birth in absence of religious fervour. Furthermore, religion is not really resposible for such beliefs. It is man's inherent ignorance that the "I" and "Them" are competing against each other.

 

[paarsurrey]

I think religion sees after a lot of chaos and turmoil at end of times ultimately peace will usher in.

There is no harm to try to finish chaos and turmoil at end of times ; I think religion does not bar any such efforts.

Please read the following in Wikipedia:

Judaism


According to Jewish tradition, the Messianic Era will be one of global peace and harmony, an era free of strife and hardship, and one conducive to the furtherment of the knowledge of the Creator. The theme of the Jewish Messiah ushering in an era of global peace is encapsulated in two of the most famous scriptural passages from the Book of Isaiah:
They shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks; nation will not lift sword against nation and they will no longer study warfare. (Isaiah 2:4)
The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea. (Isaiah 11:6-9)

Christianity

According to a realized eschatology, the Messianic Era, a time of universal peace and brotherhood on the earth, without crime, war and poverty, is already here.
Islam

Mentions about Messiah
"So Peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again).[Quran 19:33]"
Ahmadiyya


In Ahmadiyya Islam, the present age (the Messianic age) has been a witness to the wrath of God with the occurrence of the World Wars and the frequency of natural disasters.[15] In Ahmadiyya, Ghulam Ahmad (d.1908) is seen as the promised Messiah whose Islamic teachings will establish spiritual reform and ultimately establish an age of peace upon earth. This age continues for around a thousand years as per judeo-Christian prophecies; and is characterised by the assembling of mankind under one faith that is Islam as per Ahmadiyya belief .[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Age

 

[Pegg]

Christianity

According to a realized eschatology, the Messianic Era, a time of universal peace and brotherhood on the earth, without crime, war and poverty, is already here.

ummm, i think someone got something wrong here

Messianic era begins AFTER the world governments have been put out of action and the wicked have been removed from among mankind.

we are still waiting for that.

 

[Alceste]

Good morning to you all,

Judaism, Christianity and Islam (the big 3) all predict chaos, death and destruction at the end of the world. If this does not occur, the scripture is wrong. So, can we, as humans, dispel religion and work towards preventing this chaos?

To be religious, in a sense, unless I am wrong, you must accept the destructive outcome above. For most religious people; the ability to avoid such a horrific prediction, requires the abandonment of their faith. And the abandonment of faith - is worse than death...

Does Religion lead to Chauvinism and therefore Fanaticism and therefore war?


CHAUVINISM

Chauvinism (wikipedia), in its original and primary meaning, is an exaggerated, bellicose partriotism and a belligerent belief in national superiority and glory. By extension, it has come to include an extreme and unreasoning partisanship on behalf of any group to which one belongs, especially when the partisanship includes malice and hatred towards rival groups.​

Many religious groups have "an extreme and unreasoning partisanship" due to absolute believe in their faith. It is the "malice and hatred towards rival groups" that contradicts their faiths, however, is so prevalent in religion.

Fanaticism (wikipedia)- is a belief or behaviour involving uncritical zeal, particularly for an extreme religious or political cause​

I think you will find many religious folk have this 'uncritical zeal' about their God, the Scripture and their religion.


CAN WE SEPARATE CHAUVINISM AND RELIGION

Can we breakdown the 'unreasoning partisanship' in Religion?
When these groups are so adamant that their faith is true and the other is false.

Can we avoid the 'malice and hatred' towards rival groups?
When we have conflicts such as israel/Palestine, US/Iran, Mali, Syria, Lebanon to name a few.

All religions preach to 'love thy neighbour'...
But they all acknowledge that we are inferior and incapable not to sin. Therefore is appears. Doomed...


What are you thoughts, if any, on the end of days. Will it be caused by the religions themselves. Will those who fight and kill in the name of Allah or God be forgiven. Or will the faithful be judged as if they have lost their faith and go to hell.

An inspired Atheist. Interested in your opinions…

If Religion + Chauvinism = Fanaticism... it does not take a genius to predict a massive war...

Mr Nice:help:

Most Christians are not preoccupied with the book of revelations and don't consider it a foundational book for their faith. That's a phenomenon that is fairly unique to American fundamentalism.

Also, most Christians do not believe that everything in the Bible is literally true, or that if any single sentence in the Bible turns out to be erroneous or false, the whole tome and God himself needs to be chucked into the trash. Again, that is fairly unique to American fundamentalists, and even those constitute a minority of American Christians.

So, you are wrong.

But if you want to discuss whether adherence to an apocalyptic religious faith makes for dangerous leaders, generally speaking, I agree with you. I often get the sense that the far religious right in the US, Israel and Iran is more excited about going to war with each other than they should be because it would seem to fulfill various prophesies in their respective holy books.

However, the far religious right in any country usually represents a minority of believers. They are hugely over-represented in the governments of all three countries (Canada too) because they are highly motivated and highly organized.

 

[paarsurrey]

ummm, i think someone got something wrong here

Messianic era begins AFTER the world governments have been put out of action and the wicked have been removed from among mankind.

we are still waiting for that.

With the Secong Coming of Jesus in the shape of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835=1908, the Promised Messiah, the seed of the peaceful era has been sown; within the due course of time it will blossom to its full and beautiful colours and forms.