Religion and God

[Green Gaia]

Most would agree that adhereing to religion is not required for searching and/or finding God*, but does having a religion require that you search for God?

In other words, can a religion be about something other than this search for God?

Is a religion not a religion if it does not require a searching and/or finding God?


*I use God here as it is the most commonly understood term, but insert your own concept of what that means, (Divine Being, Enlightenment, Creator, Mystery of Life, Spirit of Life, Goddess, Ultimate Truth, etc.)

 

[michel]

Most would agree that adhereing to religion is not required for searching and/or finding God*, but does having a religion require that you search for God?

In other words, can a religion be about something other than this search for God?

Is a religion not a religion if it does not require a searching and/or finding God?


*I use God here as it is the most commonly understood term, but insert your own concept of what that means, (Divine Being, Enlightenment, Creator, Mystery of Life, Spirit of Life, Goddess, Ultimate Truth, etc.)

My brain just seized up..................I need to think about this more.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Most would agree that adhereing to religion is not required for searching and/or finding God*, but does having a religion require that you search for God?

Nope. All you have to do in a religion is follow the ritual. No one can know your heart.

In other words, can a religion be about something other than this search for God?

Sure it can on a personal level - one can just going be through the ritual.


Is a religion not a religion if it does not require a searching and/or finding God?

If a religion does not have any myth, I don't see how we can distinguish the "religion" from any other club.

 

[jewscout]

I think that choosing to follow a spiritual path, whether it be in organized religion or not, is going to lead to a searching for the Divine irregardless of whether or not that particular path "requires" such a search.

 

[Revasser]

I agree with Angellous.

I know a couple of people who are, according to themselves and according to the Church, Roman Catholics. They go to mass, take communion, give something up for Lent and are involved in all the rest of the ritual, but are actually atheists.

I'd say they're religious, even if they don't even believe in any God.

 

[lunamoth]

Most would agree that adhereing to religion is not required for searching and/or finding God*, but does having a religion require that you search for God?

I don't think so. Look at the Eastern Philosophy Religions like Buddhism.

In other words, can a religion be about something other than this search for God?
Is a religion not a religion if it does not require a searching and/or finding God?

I think so. Not everyone frames it in terms of a search for something. I actually think of religion as more of a spiritual discipline or framework. In a sense I am seeking a greater understanding of God, but ultimately what I seek is to more fully express God-nature in my life. I think other people use religion for the same purpose, but use different words to describe this process. What it means to me is relationship, more specifically Love, and how we manifest this Love.


*I use God here as it is the most commonly understood term, but insert your own concept of what that means, (Divine Being, Enlightenment, Creator, Mystery of Life, Spirit of Life, Goddess, Ultimate Truth, etc.)

Understood. I don't think these words are interchangeable: they will mean different things to different people and to say they are all the same devalues our personal experiences and beliefs. But, we need some way to refer to the ultimate object of our religious experience. I think the extent to which we are willing to share these terms reflects the extent to which we wish to share our spiritual experience with others.

2 c,
luna

 

[Green Gaia]

Understood. I don't think these words are interchangeable: they will mean different things to different people and to say they are all the same devalues our personal experiences and beliefs. But, we need some way to refer to the ultimate object of our religious experience. I think the extent to which we are willing to share these terms reflects the extent to which we wish to share our spiritual experience with others.

My apologies, I didn't mean to imply I thought those terms were interchangable. However how we experience whatever you want to call it, we do have different names and concepts for. I was merely trying to broaden the discussion to as many people as possible by including their conceptions of that mystery.

 

[lunamoth]

My apologies, I didn't mean to imply I thought those terms were interchangable. However how we experience whatever you want to call it, we do have different names and concepts for. I was merely trying to broaden the discussion to as many people as possible by including their conceptions of that mystery.

No worries Maize, my commment was not meant as a criticism. I just took the opportunity to comment on how I see our various approaches to religion. I was not trying to be judgemental. I do not mean to take your topic in a direction you do not want to go.

luna

 

[Green Gaia]

No worries Maize, my commment was not meant as a criticism. I just took the opportunity to comment on how I see our various approaches to religion. I was not trying to be judgemental. I do not mean to take your topic in a direction you do not want to go.

luna

That's fine, I should have clarified better what I meant by that in the OP.

 

[Mr. Hair]

In other words, can a religion be about something other than this search for God?

Well, the search for God, however defined or conceived, is intimately involved with the search to express, understand and find meaning in ourselves and the world around us. Many religious philosophers throughout history have held that one can only find 'God' by withdrawing into and contemplating oneself; God is not seen as an external reality separate from our daily lives, but something far more intuitive and personal.

I think that any cultivation of the self will reflect and refract the divine in some way, whether or not that was an original intention on the part of the... Erm... Cultivator. That does not, however, require a belief system or religious practitioners to be solely, mainly or even just concerned with the 'search for God', at least not directly.

To be honest, I'm having trouble separating concepts and trying to give at least a partially coherent answer. I think I'll have to bow out of this one with the time honoured 'perhaps', and sneak in with a sly edit later.

 

[Smoke]

*I use God here as it is the most commonly understood term, but insert your own concept of what that means, (Divine Being, Enlightenment, Creator, Mystery of Life, Spirit of Life, Goddess, Ultimate Truth, etc.)

I don't really think those are all the same thing, and of course you didn't say they were.

I don't see any particular reason why the religious impulse must focus on deity, and even agnostic, atheist, and apatheist religions need not see their quest in terms of absolutes. We can seek enlightenment, and still see enlightenment as a relative thing. We can seek truth without believing in Ultimate Truth. We can seek knowledge without believing in Pure Knowledge. We can have a sense of Mystery without believing that the Mystery is penetrable.

 

[cardero]

Many people think that religion is a means to find GOD, it is the other way around, religion is a way for GOD to recognize you.

 

[Smoke]

Most would agree that adhereing to religion is not required for searching and/or finding God*, but does having a religion require that you search for God?

Nope. All you have to do in a religion is follow the ritual. No one can know your heart.

In other words, can a religion be about something other than this search for God?

Sure it can on a personal level - one can just going be through the ritual.

What if ritual is nearly absent? What if there's no baptism, no eucharist, no mikveh, no circumcision, no ceremonial washing, no bows or prostrations, no altar, no liturgy? Can religion be reduced to something along the lines of mindfulness and compassion and still be a religion? I think it can.

Is a religion not a religion if it does not require a searching and/or finding God?

If a religion does not have any myth, I don't see how we can distinguish the "religion" from any other club.

I think myth is fine, if it's understood as myth. But I don't think myth is indispensable to a sense of mystery.

 

[Willamena]

Most would agree that adhereing to religion is not required for searching and/or finding God*, but does having a religion require that you search for God?

In other words, can a religion be about something other than this search for God?

Is a religion not a religion if it does not require a searching and/or finding God?


*I use God here as it is the most commonly understood term, but insert your own concept of what that means, (Divine Being, Enlightenment, Creator, Mystery of Life, Spirit of Life, Goddess, Ultimate Truth, etc.)

I don't think any religion is about searching for or finding God. I think it is about us and the relationship that we develop with either the Image of God that we create or that comes to us when we already have found God, or with the world at large as understood from our perspective. Religion defines who we are and our place in the nature of things.

 

[TashaN]

For us Muslims, Islam is a system of life. We live it in all our deeds and acts. We don't search for God because he told us where to find him. There is a direct connection between God and us.

[60] And your Lord says: "Call on Me; I will answer your (Prayer): but those who are too arrogant to serve Me will surely find themselves in Hell, in humiliation!" (Surah 40:60)

We just have to raise our hand and pray to him directly and "God willing" our praying will be accepted and answered.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Can religion be reduced to something along the lines of mindfulness and compassion and still be a religion? I think it can.

Ritual is any action that enables one to participate in the myth (mystery) whether it's meditation, making tea, whatever. We can have patternless and spontaneous ritual.

I think myth is fine, if it's understood as myth. But I don't think myth is indispensable to a sense of mystery.

The mystery is the myth. The mere inkling that there is a mystery is the substance of myth-making.

 

[Hacker]

Most would agree that adhereing to religion is not required for searching and/or finding God*, but does having a religion require that you search for God?

Actually, no religion is not a requirement but it can help. I believe from following the UU principles that finding God is about finding peace with yourself and understanding other's beliefs as well as accepting them. I may question beliefs at times, but it's all a learning experience which ultimately answers the question that yes, I am searching for God without ascribing to ONE speific belief system because I don't know the truth and I accept that I never will therefore..... UU for life!!

In other words, can a religion be about something other than this search for God?

Yes, I believe it brings a sense of community to others if your religion requires you to go to church, there are many beneficial organizations developed by Churches that help those in need, it's a way of meeting people, etc.

Is a religion not a religion if it does not require a searching and/or finding God?

No, there are also many spiritual paths that can propel one to find God, Taoism, buddhism etc..which bring peace to those followers which to me is the most important reason to find true meaning for oneself, so you can be at peace.

 

[Booko]

Most would agree that adhereing to religion is not required for searching and/or finding God*, but does having a religion require that you search for God?

My religion demands it, though whether individuals live up to the demands is up to them.

Ideally it's a characteristic of religion to seek out spiritual growth in some form or other. In many religions, that amounts to seeking God or some Ultimate Reality.

In other words, can a religion be about something other than this search for God?

What religion is only about a search for God or enlightenment?

Is a religion not a religion if it does not require a searching and/or finding God?

Well, there are a lot Buddhists who would say so, and I don't see much reason to disagree with them.

 

[Booko]

What if ritual is nearly absent? What if there's no baptism, no eucharist, no mikveh, no circumcision, no ceremonial washing, no bows or prostrations, no altar, no liturgy? Can religion be reduced to something along the lines of mindfulness and compassion and still be a religion? I think it can.

I sure hope so, because Baha'is don't have any of those.

Though I suppose someone can still "go through the motions" by showing up for the food.

 

[Katzpur]

Most would agree that adhereing to religion is not required for searching and/or finding God*, but does having a religion require that you search for God?

In other words, can a religion be about something other than this search for God?

Is a religion not a religion if it does not require a searching and/or finding God?


*I use God here as it is the most commonly understood term, but insert your own concept of what that means, (Divine Being, Enlightenment, Creator, Mystery of Life, Spirit of Life, Goddess, Ultimate Truth, etc.)

To me, religion is not so much about "searching for God" but worshipping God and learning what God expects of us and how we can draw closer to Him. This is the one thing that bothers me about the Unitarian Universalists. Please don't misunderstand me, because I think Unitarians are a fantastic group of people, very tolerant towards others, and very concerned with making this world a better place. From that standpoint alone, they have earned my deep respect and admiration. I just don't understand how Unitarianism (if I'm understanding it correctly) can be termed a religion. So many people who think of themselves as Unitarians don't even believe in God. Many of them actively disbelieve that He exists. It seems to me that it would be better described as a some kind of a benevolent association of people who have as a goal such things as eliminating social injustice, prejudice, etc. Religion, to me, ought to be concerned with those things, too, but it should be founded on a belief in a Higher Being of some sort, whom all members of the congregation can worship in unity of spirit.

(By the way, I singled out the Unitarians only because I'm unaware of any other "religion" whose adherents are so openly diverse in their understanding of who or what God is, and who are also so forthright about stating a active disbelief in God. If there are other religions where this is the case -- and perhaps the Quakers fit into this category; I'm not sure -- my feelings about them would be much the same.)