Religion And Violence

[Revoltingest]

I wonder....is this an example of violence which stems solely from religious beliefs, rather than some evil within the believer?
Parents 'tried to exorcise daughter, 10' - Telegraph
Let's presume they're normal parents who love the kid, & do what they do only because they believe they're helping her.
Without a religious prescription to treat her so badly, it wouldn't happen.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Conditioning scripts for behavior; religion is a potent repository of conditioning. I don't understand why people are so unnerved by the idea that religion might actually contribute to, if not make for, harmful behavior.

 

[Revoltingest]

Conditioning scripts for behavior; religion is a potent repository of conditioning. I don't understand why people are so unnerved by the idea that religion might actually contribute to, if not make for, harmful behavior.

Some would naturally not want to think that something which the value so much (faith) could be neutral or even harmful.
I don't profess to have the answer, but this article seems a case wherein it poses harm.

 

[LuisDantas]

Difficult question, but only because you are asking if there can be no evil in the believer.

There is no doubt in my mind that religious practice can be harmful, sometimes very harmful even.

But is a lack of desire to question violent prescriptions not evil?

 

[Revoltingest]

Difficult question, but only because you are asking if there can be no evil in the believer.
There is no doubt in my mind that religious practice can be harmful, sometimes very harmful even.
But is a lack of desire to question violent prescriptions not evil?

This is the place to question it.

 

[savagewind]

evil is defined - Profoundly immoral and malevolent
and malevolent is define - showing ill will or a wish to do harm to others.

I think there is a big difference between ill will (does not come with a wish but apathy) and wish (which is intentional).

What is immoral. Who has drawn an obvious line between moral and immoral?

Moral define - Concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior
Immoral defined - Not conforming to accepted standards of righteous conduct

The world is all about righteous not being defined clearly.

When someone goes beyond what is socially acceptable are they being only evil, only ignorant or some of each?

 

[savagewind]

I looked at the article. There is a picture. I shall assume correctly or incorrectly the picture is not of the girl in question but is from a movie. The article is CAUSING ignorance. Ignorance causes evil imo.

 

[LuisDantas]

This is the place to question it.

Then yes, causing harm with religious justification is indeed evil.

It can be argued that it is ignorance instead, but I don't think there is much of a difference. Moral virtue is the applied use of reason, and correspondingly moral failure is the acceptance of ignorance when one should know better.

 

[savagewind]

"One should know better" is the cause of failure.

 

[LuisDantas]

"One should know better" is the cause of failure.

Sorry, what do you mean?

 

[savagewind]

"One should know better" is the cause of failure.

If world goes on thinking that evil is evil and those who are evil should know better, then the rule "love your neighbor as yourself" will not work for the will of God to be accomplished. To being saying criminals "should" know better means all perpetrators of crimes "could" know better. But could is assuming the messages they are receiving are perfect. They are not.

 

[LuisDantas]

Is that so? Because I really don't follow you.

 

[savagewind]

Is that so? Because I really don't follow you.

"I really don't follow you" is in agreement with almost six billion others.

Don't worry about about.

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm not big on agreeing with the majority just because, nor in giving up on understanding a point just because, either. I'll try to reverse-engineer your argument in order to understand it. Wait for ETA clauses right below.

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ETA (Edited to Add):

Ignorance causes evil imo.

It either does or is evil itself, indeed.

"One should know better" is the cause of failure.

(...)

If world goes on thinking that evil is evil and those who are evil should know better, then the rule "love your neighbor as yourself" will not work for the will of God to be accomplished.

Loving a neighbor as oneself is not at odds with understanding that evil is ignorance and that we all should know better. It only implies that we should all strive to learn.

To being saying criminals "should" know better means all perpetrators of crimes "could" know better. But could is assuming the messages they are receiving are perfect. They are not.

Assuming that "being" is a mispelling of "begin", I must disagree. At the very least, that was not quite what I meant. People should know better than to do evil things, but they are not always capable of such, due to peer pressure, trauma, fear, pride, or even simple lack of proper opportunity and encouragement.

 

[savagewind]

The estimated time of arrival clauses? What is ETA please? Should I being expecting a point?

I do not believe you are agreeing with anyone.

 

[LuisDantas]

Sorry, ETA means Edited to Add here in these forums.

I don't think my perspective is quite unusual, though.

 

[Odi Brassicum]

The couple from the Democratic Republic of Congo are from a society in which many people honestly believe that children can become witches and beating a child unconscious and forcing her to drink cleaning fluid and urine is the correct thing to do. It's difficult to see where the parents' religious beliefs end and their cultural/societal conditioning start. Something is clearly messed up in many countries in that region. It would help if it was made illegal to pretend to be a witch or to accuse someone of being a witch.

 

[savagewind]

I'm not big on agreeing with the majority just because, nor in giving up on understanding a point just because, either. I'll try to reverse-engineer your argument in order to understand it. Wait for ETA clauses right below.

-------------

ETA (Edited to Add):

Loving a neighbor as oneself is not at odds with understanding that evil is ignorance and that we all should know better. It only implies that we should all strive to learn.

Assuming that "being" is a mispelling of "begin", I must disagree. At the very least, that was not quite what I meant. People should know better than to do evil things, but they are not always capable of such, due to peer pressure, trauma, fear, pride, or even simple lack of proper opportunity and encouragement.

Being is misspelled, it is "be". "People are not capable of such". God is capable. The people who know better will not direct the world in the direction of God's will be done. Why not? I think it is because we are all evil. So "we shall all strive to learn" does nothing against crazy acts of terrorism does it? No matter how much you learn. No matter how much you are made over to be wise, peaceable, charitable and so on, the made over you can do nothing about what is being taught about witches and what to do about them.

 

[LuisDantas]

Being is misspelled, it is "be". "People are not capable of such". God is capable. The people who know better will not direct the world in the direction of God's will be done. Why not? I think it is because we are all evil. So "we shall all strive to learn" does nothing against crazy acts of terrorism does it? No matter how much you learn. No matter how much you are made over to be wise, peaceable, charitable and so on, the made over you can do nothing about what is being taught about witches and what to do about them.

I see no reason to believe we are quite that helpless. Or evil.

 

[Odi Brassicum]

I think it is because we are all evil.

I don't think I am evil and most of the people I know.

the made over you can do nothing about what is being taught about witches and what to do about them.

We can try. Many immoral and malevolent practices have been stopped in many countries throughout history.