Religion Before Telescopes

[Deeje]

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=H2329&t=KJV
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=H2329&t=KJV

According to Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon...."chuwg" can mean a circle or sphere....to draw a circle as with a compass.......I am basing my argument on their definition so go make your argument with them.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Thousands of years before anyone knew about gravity Job wrote....

Job 26:7
“He stretches out the north over empty space And hangs the earth on nothing." (NASB)

How could Job know that? That is an observation that can only be achieved if viewing the earth from space.

What about precipitation?

A lot of people claimed earth was in nothingness. In reality the Earth is not in nothingness.

Job 36:27
“For He draws up the drops of water, They distill rain from the mist, Which the clouds pour down,
They drip upon man abundantly."

How did Job know that water is drawn up into the clouds to fall as rain?

What about the shape of the earth itself?

A lot of people knew that, people saw evaporation and condensation and used a modicum of their brains.

Isa 40:22:
"It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers"

Who could know back then that the earth was a "circle"?

According to Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon....

The word "circle" can also mean a "sphere". How did Isaiah know that?

And if we go back to Genesis...how did Moses know the order in which living things appeared? He said life began in the oceans and then flying creatures, before land animals and finally man.

No it cannot actually.

Actully he claimed all ocean life and all flying creatures simultaneously, and then all land animals, and then man.

Which would be incorrect.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=H2329&t=KJV

According to Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon...."chuwg" can mean a circle or sphere....to draw a circle as with a compass.......I am basing my argument on their definition so go make your argument with them.

No, we can argue that you are using a biased no-valid source

Bring up a unbiased valid source.

 

[Thief]

Who? Oh, that imaginary couple that we all supposedly came from, even though geneticists have proven that is impossible, thus relegating the story to the fiction section of the biblical library.

in the scheme of regression...someone had to be first

 

[Thief]

Don't even go there. Genesis has two different creation accounts, and they contradict the order in which stuff was created.

God was the inspiration of the account.

I don't think He was present as the story went to print

 

[Neo Deist]

Actually, the second chapter of Genesis is a summary of the history of creation, not a different account. The first chapter is a detailed account about the creative "days" and what took place in each period. The second chapter is not necessarily in chronological order.

Gen 2:4:
"Here is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created. On the day when Adonai, God, made earth and heaven" (CJB)

It adds some detail not covered in the first chapter. It also says that the whole of creation is summarized as taking place in one "day".

Refer to post #17.

 

[Neo Deist]

in the scheme of regression...someone had to be first

Not someone, as in a singular person. Genesis 1 refers to the creation of mankind, not a single man. It is because of this little tidbit that you can answer the question of "who did Cain marry when he was banished from Eden?" along with " who did Cain have to fear, so God marked him?". The answer is: other people. The ones created in Genesis 1 and were put all over the world.

However, I still think the Genesis narrative is nothing more than campfire fiction.

 

[Thief]

Not someone, as in a singular person. Genesis 1 refers to the creation of mankind, not a single man. It is because of this little tidbit that you can answer the question of "who did Cain marry when he was banished from Eden?" along with " who did Cain have to fear, so God marked him?". The answer is: other people. The ones created in Genesis 1 and were put all over the world.

However, I still think the Genesis narrative is nothing more than campfire fiction.

I don't read Chapter Two as a retelling of Chapter One

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes, actually.

Touche.

How many people do you suppose in modern Urban and Suburban society shares in that knowledge?

How about, "perfect sphere"

.

It's still not one.

Then again, you joke, but my mistake still demonstrates my point. I have above average knowledge of these matters (largely because of time spent here, and more recently watching a LOT of SciShow and similar channels on Youtube), and yet STILL make such a novice mistake like that. Let alone most people who lack the interest or the time to really consume such media.

The REALLY sad state of public education right now certainly doesn't make up for that; I learned FAR more about history, the sciences, mathematics, etc. on my own during the roughly 3-4 years since I dropped out of a Junior College, than I ever learned during the 7 years of post-Elementary school education. (Just to be clear, I'm 150% in support of standardized public, i.e. tax-funded, education. It's just that my support is for a standardized public education that's BETTER than the one currently in place.)

 

[Faronator]

I don't read Chapter Two as a retelling of Chapter One

Why?

That's clearly what it is.

 

[Riverwolf]

Why?

That's clearly what it is.

...sort of.

It's been a while since I looked into it, but IIRC, the Creation account (which ends either on Verse 3 or in the middle of Verse 4, depending on who you ask) is from a later time and a completely different author than the Adam and Eve story (which is how I prefer to distinguish it.)

 

[Ingledsva]

No, we can argue that you are using a biased no-valid source

Bring up a unbiased valid source.

Yep. They are not correct. Plus they add another new erroneous meaning, - arch, - to make it fit another verse, - which actually means a flat circle too.

The verse is -

Job 22:14 Clouds are a covering for Him, and He does not see; and He walks the circuit of the heavens.

Apparently they don't understand how ancient people figured their planting seasons, etc. By the apparent movement of star groups. What we would now call the zodiac wheel. We actually have Hebrew zodiacs on ancient Temple floors, with YHVH as the Sun God in his Solar Chariot in the center. These show us again that they meant a flat scribed circle.

 

[Neo Deist]

Touche.

How many people do you suppose in modern Urban and Suburban society shares in that knowledge?

Growing up I spent many weekends with my grandparents, who had a 68 acre cattle ranch. I learned all about gardening, ranching and farming from them. In Explorer Scouts I learned about wilderness survival, which included making shelters (thatch roofing was one method). I had an interesting childhood/teenage years.

But you are right...modern people, especially city slickers, would be the first to perish if the crap ever hit the fan on an apocalyptic scale.

 

[Riverwolf]

Growing up I spent many weekends with my grandparents, who had a 68 acre cattle ranch. I learned all about gardening, ranching and farming from them. In Explorer Scouts I learned about wilderness survival, which included making shelters (thatch roofing was one method). I had an interesting childhood/teenage years.

But you are right...modern people, especially city slickers, would be the first to perish if the crap ever hit the fan on an apocalyptic scale.

Exactly my point.

People weren't as "educated" largely because they didn't need to be.

Nowadays there's a social imperative to be so.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

in the scheme of regression...someone had to be first

Yeah, it wasn't a human.

 

[Thief]

Yeah, it wasn't a human.

yeah.....

Genesis Chapter One reads like ...God is turning loose various species.....including Man
and giving Man top of the line dominance

Chapter Two reads like an isolated science experiment of alteration
and then release into the environment

 

[Thief]

Growing up I spent many weekends with my grandparents, who had a 68 acre cattle ranch. I learned all about gardening, ranching and farming from them. In Explorer Scouts I learned about wilderness survival, which included making shelters (thatch roofing was one method). I had an interesting childhood/teenage years.

But you are right...modern people, especially city slickers, would be the first to perish if the crap ever hit the fan on an apocalyptic scale.

actually.....having been a city slicker who spent his childhood with his grandparents
(way out in the middle of nowhere).....

my tough neighborhood taught me to live on damn near nothing.

if the crap hits the fan., as you say...apocalyptic style....
the cities would empty

and the fields of 'nowhere' would turn into 'Woodstock Gone to Hell'

no amount of tech will spare anyone

Quoting Captain Sparrow......'Take all you can. Give nothing back!"

 

[Thief]

Why?

That's clearly what it is.

nay.....noted above^

 

[Deeje]

No, we can argue that you are using a biased no-valid source

Bring up a unbiased valid source.

Really...does such a thing exist? What is a valid and unbiased source to you might be the polar opposite to me.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Really...does such a thing exist? What is a valid and unbiased source to you might be the polar opposite to me.

Is archeology biased to you?