Religion - fear of the unknown?

[PennyKay]

Well as my title implys -

Is religion simply a remedy to the important unknown questions regarding life and our place in it?

Does the value of religion become lesser, the more science discovers?

What do you think about the 'God of the Gaps' argument? (I've attched a youtube link below for those unfamiliar).

[youtube]0vrpPPV_yPY[/youtube]
‪The God Of The Gaps (by Neil deGrasse Tyson)‬‏ - YouTube

p.s. all thoughts and comments welcome

 

[Breathe]

Is religion simply a remedy to the important unknown questions regarding life and our place in it?

It can be for some people. Not all.

Does the value of religion become lesser, the more science discovers?

For some people, yes - but only because they have a shallow understanding of religion and turn to it for answers on things where one should turn to science.

What do you think about the 'God of the Gaps' argument?

Sadly, it is something a lot of people do.

It is a good argument against ignorant views of God, where God is substituted for an "I don't know" -- either from the individual or the scientific world. At the same time, I feel that it is often used by some people to exclude anything natural as being from or by God, as though God is necessarily a magic man in space defying natural laws.

However, if one is using God as a way to cover his or her (or even science as whole's) gaps in current scientific knowledge, then that to me boils down to ignorance, and is not religion in itself.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The Sadducees rejected life after death.

 

[PennyKay]

It can be for some people. Not all.


For some people, yes - but only because they have a shallow understanding of religion and turn to it for answers on things where one should turn to science.


Sadly, it is something a lot of people do.

It is a good argument against ignorant views of God, where God is substituted for an "I don't know" -- either from the individual or the scientific world. At the same time, I feel that it is often used by some people to exclude anything natural as being from or by God, as though God is necessarily a magic man in space defying natural laws.

However, if one is using God as a way to cover his or her (or even science as whole's) gaps in current scientific knowledge, then that to me boils down to ignorance, and is not religion in itself.

Good answer, thank you.

 

[1948_its_happening]

God is a creator of Science, he could have made no logical connection between all his creation but then it would be like a bad acid trip 24/7 with little meaning (like a dream).

Instead he created the creation we live in with set rules and regulations for the 4 dimensions we comprehend. He did this to make his creation richer and more exciting for us.

Why then do you use his gift of understanding (science) as an opposition to him. Surely this is a plot to confuse you and seperate you from your creator.

The devil tries to make out as if you have to choose one or the other. Who on earth proposed this was ever the case.

There are absolutely no contradictions between modern science and the bible. In fact the thing that contradicts previous science the most is modern science itself because constatnly we are reinterpreting our model we have created to simplify the craetion around us.

Many scientific theories have been disproved. No biblical truth has ever been disproved. I am a scientist myself. Give me one contradiction beyween science and scripture.

 

[Storm]

Well as my title implys -

I don't fear the unknown. In fact, it excites me.

Is religion simply a remedy to the important unknown questions regarding life and our place in it?

1) What do you mean by remedy?
2) It explores them. Just like every philosophy.

Does the value of religion become lesser, the more science discovers?

Nope.

What do you think about the 'God of the Gaps' argument?

It's pathetic.

 

[PennyKay]

I don't fear the unknown. In fact, it excites me.


1) What do you mean by remedy?
2) It explores them. Just like every philosophy.


Nope.


It's pathetic.

- By remedy, I mean a solution.
- Why do you think the God of the Gaps argument is pathetic?

 

[PennyKay]

God is a creator of Science, he could have made no logical connection between all his creation but then it would be like a bad acid trip 24/7 with little meaning (like a dream).

Instead he created the creation we live in with set rules and regulations for the 4 dimensions we comprehend. He did this to make his creation richer and more exciting for us.

Why then do you use his gift of understanding (science) as an opposition to him. Surely this is a plot to confuse you and seperate you from your creator.

The devil tries to make out as if you have to choose one or the other. Who on earth proposed this was ever the case.

There are absolutely no contradictions between modern science and the bible. In fact the thing that contradicts previous science the most is modern science itself because constatnly we are reinterpreting our model we have created to simplify the craetion around us.

Many scientific theories have been disproved. No biblical truth has ever been disproved. I am a scientist myself. Give me one contradiction beyween science and scripture.

Thank you for your view point

Just out of curiosity, what is your take on the miracles in the bible (e.g. walking on water) when these same things have been achieved today with a rational explanation?

 

[Storm]

- Why do you think the God of the Gaps argument is pathetic?

IMX, it's usually a strawman coming from non-believers who haven't bothered to study what the other side really believes. That's bad enough, but when people genuinely believe in such a God... well, that's just sad.

 

[Storm]

Thank you for your view point

Just out of curiosity, what is your take on the miracles in the bible (e.g. walking on water) when these same things have been achieved today with a rational explanation?

Who walked on water?

 

[PennyKay]

IMX, it's usually a strawman coming from non-believers who haven't bothered to study what the other side really believes. That's bad enough, but when people genuinely believe in such a God... well, that's just sad.

Ok fair enough...

 

[PennyKay]

Who walked on water?

I'm not religious myself, so this may be a rumour. But I'm pretty sure I've heard the story of Jesus walking on water? Some say Peter did too, but that is just conjecture I believe.

 

[Storm]

I'm not religious myself, so this may be a rumour. But I'm pretty sure I've heard the story of Jesus walking on water? Some say Peter did too, but that is just conjecture I believe.

No, I mean who reproduced it?

 

[1948_its_happening]

Thank you for your view point

Just out of curiosity, what is your take on the miracles in the bible (e.g. walking on water) when these same things have been achieved today with a rational explanation?

Define a miracle. If someone 3000 years ago woke up in the 21st century everything would appear to be a miracle.

When a scientist does something impossible no one calls it a miracle. They just say, well now I guess we will have to go back to the drawing board. We need to make a more accurate model about whats possible.

I think God works within the limitations of the natural world so that he does not become so obvious to us that we believe in our heads when our hearts are no where.

Having said that; if he chooses to bypass our model of the natural world who are we to say its impossible.

Remember Scientific models are built on observation. Just because you have not observed something before does not mean its impossible even if the odds are infinitely small.

 

[PennyKay]

No, I mean who reproduced it?

Ah, I see (sorry ). I don't know if you've heard of a man called Dynamo? He's quite a famous illusionist. Heres an article and video of him walking over the Thames In London.

Trick or feat? Magician Dynamo 'walks across Thames' | UK news | guardian.co.uk

[youtube]5rYvc86rCJU[/youtube]
‪Dynamo walks across the River Thames‬‏ - YouTube

Although to be honest, I've seen quite a few people do it.

 

[PennyKay]

Define a miracle. If someone 3000 years ago woke up in the 21st century everything would appear to be a miracle.

When a scientist does something impossible no one calls it a miracle. They just say, well now I guess we will have to go back to the drawing board. We need to make a more accurate model about whats possible.

I think God works within the limitations of the natural world so that he does not become so obvious to us that we believe in our heads when our hearts are no where.

Having said that; if he chooses to bypass our model of the natural world who are we to say its impossible.

Remember Scientific models are built on observation. Just because you have not observed something before does not mean its impossible even if the odds are infinitely small.

Well, I define a miracle as an event that defies the laws of nature.

 

[Storm]

Well, I define a miracle as an event that defies the laws of nature.

I believe "Miracles happen within the rules."

Maybe Jesus walked on water, maybe He didn't. Doesn't really matter to me.

Blending the threads of miracles and God of the Gaps, I'm reminded of a scene from Joan of Arcadia:
Joan: Well, if you're God, let's see a miracle.
God: *points at tree* How about that?
Joan: That's a tree.
God: Let's see you make one.

Science explores God's work.

 

[Caladan]

I see religion as extension of my ethnicity. supposedly I can do without it, but I can certainly be inspired by it. and as Jay says, many Jews during the times of Jesus already did not hold supernatural beliefs, some of these Jews were considered the ruling class, the aristocracy, and controled the Temple affairs in Jerusalem.
religion is a vast landscape. to some it gives comfort, to other it gives the zeal to fight. its hard to take religion and say that is used for such basic things as easing the fear of men. if anything the religion I know inspires people to study, to continue to fight, and to enhance their identity.
if you look at the religion of anyone from the Jews, to the Vikings, you will see that it is part of their ethnicity and there is no point in futile attempts to seperate it from their group.

in some cases, major religions were embraced as part of major political factors and after careful examination, certainly not because they ease the fear of already confident men.
in various historical period, religions were deemed needed to be part of a larger administration, and in order to function in a world where great monotheistic and organized forces such as Christianity and Islam were forces to be reckoned with, whether if embodied in the Caliphate or in Byzantium.

 

[1948_its_happening]

Well, I define a miracle as an event that defies the laws of nature.

If you for example took the "laws of nature" as it was supposed 1000 years ago or even 100 years ago or even 5 years ago you would have to agree that Scientist find miracles everyday.

The Scientific model is constantly broken and reshaped in a desperate attempt to find consistency. Thousands of years down the line we have uncovered more confusion that solutions.

For example: Quantum theory is currently ripping through the current scientific model. Its unravelling at the seams faster than they can tie it up.

At the same time if someone were to walk on water who is to say its against the natural order. Just because its very hard to achieve and the knowledge of how to do it is unexplainable is no grounds to call it contradictory.

 

[PennyKay]

I see religion as extension of my ethnicity. supposedly I can do without it, but I can certainly be inspired by it. and as Jay says, many Jews during the times of Jesus already did not hold supernatural beliefs, some of these Jews were considered the ruling class, the aristocracy, and controled the Temple affairs in Jerusalem.
religion is a vast landscape. to some it gives comfort, to other it gives the zeal to fight. its hard to take religion and say that is used for such basic things as easing the fear of men. if anything the religion I know inspires people to study, to continue to fight, and to enhance their identity.
if you look at the religion of anyone from the Jews, to the Vikings, you will see that it is part of their ethnicity and there is no point in futile attempts to seperate it from their group.

in some cases, major religions were embraced as part of major political factors and after careful examination, certainly not because they ease the fear of already confident men.
in various historical period, religions were deemed needed to be part of a larger administration, and in order to function in a world where great monotheistic and organized forces such as Christianity and Islam were forces to be reckoned with, whether if embodied in the Caliphate or in Byzantium.

An interesting point to make. Although, I'm not too sure I agree that ethnicity and religion are bound together, or not as much as they have been in the past.

What is your view on countries such as Britain (my home country) where the population is increasingly diverse in a multitute of religions. The first generation children from these families born in Britain might consider themselves British to a certain extent but may not necessarily be christian, maybe they will grow up to have a conflict of faith.

(Hopefully I've interpreted your answer correctly, if not apologies)