Religion is the opium of the masses

[Geist]

So you believe that everything needs to have some kind of objective status to be understand, a thing-ness?

What is your being, we all have different interpetations and can never understand our own being so what should we do here? What about nothingness? We know there must be a nothingness but that there cant be, basically I am trying to tell you that not everything is as easy to define as that.

God is one of these concepts.

I never stated that I believe God is best understood from an anthropological perspective.

 

[Alaric]

But we do need to have some kind of agreed upon definition in order to be able to describe what it is we are agnostic or atheist about. Once we do, we can compare that worldview to, say, a purely scientific one, and see which one is more reasonable. I don't think I've even found a definition of God which is possible, let alone plausible; and even if there was a religion that described a possible worldview, it would have to as reasonable an explanation as my current worldview (which doesn't really explain much, I'll admit) for me to go from atheism to agnosticism about it. I just think agnosticism gives too much credit to bad explanations.

 

[eolsunder]

Well I think we all know that is one reason religion exists, to provide psychological comfort on some left. We all know humans in general like to blame someone else for problems, it makes you feel better. Who better to blame than a "all powerful" entity. Like many things, religion is a need for some people to provide comfort, security, an outlet for emotions. The same as people who drink, or smoke, or do drugs, or play sports to relieve stress, or what ever.

Also religion has been built up over the thousands of years as a last resort punishment also. Society really benefits from religion because it puts that last little bit of "punishment for being bad" into your head. You might be a bad person who doesnt care about the law in many cases, but maybe that tiny bit of teaching you had as a kid in church might get you thinking mmm maybe there is a God and ill go to Hell for doing this or that. Belief in God does make for the ultimate punisher to whip out a belt and punish you for your crimes, if human society doesnt.

Me, I think im a strong enough person who has enough sense that I dont need a "all powerful being" mentality to keep my actions and thoughts in check. I love to attend debates and listen to arguments between ideas. Im not a great debater myself, im more of a listener than a talker. You know what they say, the more you listen, the more you learn. I LOVED taking classes in college to debate topics and life. Man, I still remember a great class where the topic of the day was "Should females be allowed into jobs where standards are lowered to let them in" and the topic got into females becoming firemen. Man, the sparks were flying that day I can tell you. And I sat back and loved every minute of it. Put me in a room where people are thinking for themselves and having conversation/arguments, it makes my day.

 

[Ceridwen018]

Geist,

You mentioned that, "Therefore unlike Santa I cannot simply dismiss something taken for granted by the general concensus of humanity." To that I say, "then don't simply dismiss it!" Ask questions, pick apart beliefs, do your homework! The fact that even you agree that belief in god is taken for granted by the general concensus should raise a red flag. Don't make the same mistake as everyone else by taking things at face value.

Like Alaric mentioned, don't let numbers sway you. Great minds think alike, but ridiculous ones do too.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Alaric,

As a weak Agnostic (not certain if God exists - won't know without empirical knowledge), I would have to disagree with your stance that one cannot have no opinion on God's existence.

Alaric wrote: Based on the evidence I don't see how agnosticism is viable, given that you must rationally lean towards believing either than God exists or He doesn't;

What evidence do I have that God does not exist? I am speaking of empirical knowledge - not just arguments against theism or deism. I am an Objectivist and a Rationalist (metaphysically speaking). If I have missed some evidence of God's non-existence please alert me to what it is.

For me personally, I will remain a weak Agnostic until God reveals himself to me directly, or I die and pass into nothingness. Oddly enough, I find myself leaning more toward agreeing with the position of Atheism rather than a belief in God. After all, if God exists and he wants me to know him, all he has to do is call. Since no call has come, and I am over halfway through my life, I am not holding out much hope.

 

[Aria]

Well I think its possible that if God exists it is neccessary for us to rekject him to be free.

I agree with this so completely that im gonna have to say something. I personally do not believe that god exists, for all the obvious reasons, however if by some chance i am wrong and god were to come down from the heavens, point his finger at me and say "I am real" or some other such nonsense then i would have to say "ok you're real but now i reject you" I would refuse to worship this being because;

Firstly - If the definition of god is that he is all benevolent and omnipotent then the fact that he allows such atrocities as famine and war mean that my conscience does not allow me to worship him.

a believer here might tell me that God has his own reasons that i am just too insignificant to understand , and then i would say

secondly - If the being known as god is too great for my mortal mind to understand him then i think it would be a hypocracy for me to worship him, because i would only be worshipping his power not understanding and worshipping anything worthwhile

Thirdly - I believe the most important thing in life is LIFE and for me to worship a being such as god i would be limiting my life. God is too big that he doesnt allow full growth in humans. The whole basis of worshipping him is centred upon rewards when you die and i think that a life spent thinking about death is a wasted life.

Ok thats it, I think ive rambled on too much there and lost myself a couple of times. If i lost any of you also just ask me simple questions one at a time and ill see what i can do

 

[Mr Spinkles]

What evidence do I have that God does not exist? I am speaking of empirical knowledge - not just arguments against theism or deism. I am an Objectivist and a Rationalist (metaphysically speaking). If I have missed some evidence of God's non-existence please alert me to what it is.

We have the same evidence that God does not exist as we do that Zeus or the Tooth Fairy do not exist. A total lack of evidence for something IS good evidence against something. By your reasoning on the empirical evidence for things, we are as certain that God does not exist as we are that Santa does not exist (no empirical evidence against either). I think we both do not beleive God exists, just with different levels of conviction (you even said you tend to agree with atheists).

 

[Ceridwen018]

I agree Spinkles. Also, think about this: What, exactly, would you consider to be evidence against god? What tangible (or otherwise even I guess) thing can you think of which would be sufficient disproof. Personally, I think it is impossible to provide disproving evidence (other than the lack of evidence) for anything.