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Religion like Alzheimer's disease

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I have observed most religions of a Christian nature are more about what you can't know than what you can know. If you wish to be a member of any number of Christians religions you must change your mind for it. Each religion has it's own creed. You must agree with it, at least out loud, or you are not welcome.

I think everyone is able to agree that there is much that is still unknown. If someone knows something that does not rest with the creed that something must be expunged from the mind of the hopeful believer.

Alzheimer's disease is about the brain's missing power.

Knowledge is power. Some knowledge is not allowed. They say to be saved a person must lose certain precepts because they don't match the creed for salvation.

See?
 

Draupadi

Active Member
And this expulsion sometimes lead to a loss of members who are really faithful to God. For example Sunnis may not accept some stuff like the Shi'ites consider some of the Prophet's followers as their guidance who is on a great level. But isn't the acceptance of God and the basic fundamentals reason enough? The first reason alone is sufficient enough IMHO.
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
I believe in doing no harm,
Jesus was a prophet,
God doesn't care or doesn't exist,
and of course.......Pascal.
~
Just being funny here...sort of...
~
'mud
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I believe in doing no harm,
Jesus was a prophet,
God doesn't care or doesn't exist,
and of course.......Pascal.
~
Just being funny here...sort of...
~
'mud

I can't admit God doesn't care or I'd be denying God's son. I have seen that God exists but I do not know if God exists as A Person. If I am to believe what the Bible says about humankind in the image of God then God is a person too. But I don't know. I think it is OK to be without an image of God in my head. I think it is not OK to be without an image of peace and security in my head. I know that to rest on my own peace and security is against growth. The mind of Christ is about growth and NOT about holes.

Thank you for your comment. I am ashamed to admit Pascal is drawing a blank for me. A person only has so much tme to waste. Haha
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And this expulsion sometimes lead to a loss of members who are really faithful to God. For example Sunnis may not accept some stuff like the Shi'ites consider some of the Prophet's followers as their guidance who is on a great level. But isn't the acceptance of God and the basic fundamentals reason enough? The first reason alone is sufficient enough IMHO.

Thank you. It is sad when people must leave their brothers for a difference of opinion.

I can't agree that the acceptance of god belief is enough for people to stick together as there are many gods and some of them are 'at odds' with each other or conflicting.

I can't become a member of any group as being one is a sign of agreement. No one agrees with me and I don't agree with anyone.
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
hey Savage,
just for you,

The wager is described in Pensées this way:


If there is a God, He is infinitely incomprehensible, since, having neither parts nor limits, He has no affinity to us. We are then incapable of knowing either what He is or if He is....

..."God is, or He is not." But to which side shall we incline? Reason can decide nothing here. There is an infinite chaos which separated us. A game is being played at the extremity of this infinite distance where heads or tails will turn up. What will you wager? According to reason, you can do neither the one thing nor the other; according to reason, you can defend neither of the propositions.

Do not, then, reprove for error those who have made a choice; for you know nothing about it. "No, but I blame them for having made, not this choice, but a choice; for again both he who chooses heads and he who chooses tails are equally at fault, they are both in the wrong. The true course is not to wager at all."

Yes; but you must wager. It is not optional. You are embarked. Which will you choose then? Let us see. Since you must choose, let us see which interests you least. You have two things to lose, the true and the good; and two things to stake, your reason and your will, your knowledge and your happiness; and your nature has two things to shun, error and misery. Your reason is no more shocked in choosing one rather than the other, since you must of necessity choose. This is one point settled. But your happiness? Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is.

"That is very fine. Yes, I must wager; but I may perhaps wager too much." Let us see. Since there is an equal risk of gain and of loss, if you had only to gain two lives, instead of one, you might still wager. But if there were three lives to gain, you would have to play (since you are under the necessity of playing), and you would be imprudent, when you are forced to play, not to chance your life to gain three at a game where there is an equal risk of loss and gain. But there is an eternity of life and happiness. And this being so, if there were an infinity of chances, of which one only would be for you, you would still be right in wagering one to win two, and you would act stupidly, being obliged to play, by refusing to stake one life against three at a game in which out of an infinity of chances there is one for you, if there were an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain. But there is here an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain, a chance of gain against a finite number of chances of loss, and what you stake is finite.
 

SkylarHunter

Active Member
I think everyone is able to agree that there is much that is still unknown. If someone knows something that does not rest with the creed that something must be expunged from the mind of the hopeful believer.

Alzheimer's disease is about the brain's missing power.

Knowledge is power. Some knowledge is not allowed. They say to be saved a person must lose certain precepts because they don't match the creed for salvation.

Seriously?! You're comparing religion with Alzheimer's? :facepalm:

Alzheimer's is a disease that some people get and other don't but it is never a choice.

Religion is a choice unless someone pointed a gun at your head and forced you to convert.

I don't know any religion in Christianity that does such a thing so I guess it is up to you to be part of that religion or not.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Seriously?! You're comparing religion with Alzheimer's? :facepalm:

Alzheimer's is a disease that some people get and other don't but it is never a choice.

Religion is a choice unless someone pointed a gun at your head and forced you to convert.

I don't know any religion in Christianity that does such a thing so I guess it is up to you to be part of that religion or not.

Alzheimers is a mind with important things missing. Each religion is an institution with important things missing. Religion is an end unless it is the religion of growth and learning. I don't know of a religion like that. Do you?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't know of a religion that grows into something better. Isn't all religion about settling? I understand that a religious person can grow and learn but the growth causes a leaving the religion. Is this not so?

A mind with Alzhiemers can not grow or learn. Like each religion. Can you tell me why this is wrong?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If a person grows beyond her religion she stays to suffer, just leaves, or leaves and starts a new religion. If she is smart she won't start another religion BECAUSE she believes in growing.
 

Thruve

Sheppard for the Die Hard
Alzheimers is a mind with important things missing. Each religion is an institution with important things missing. Religion is an end unless it is the religion of growth and learning. I don't know of a religion like that. Do you?

I get it.

Perhaps it is best then to have one's grounds placed in a specific denomination, and then to roam freely beyond it. If a storm or a mess comes your way, especially philosophically, atleast you have grounds to fall back on.

That somewhat describes me.
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
hey Savage,
That's why it's called Pascal's wager !
If there is a God........take my bet !!
~
'mud
 

jtartar

Well-Known Member
:drool:
Thank you. It is sad when people must leave their brothers for a difference of opinion.

I can't agree that the acceptance of god belief is enough for people to stick together as there are many gods and some of them are 'at odds' with each other or conflicting.

I can't become a member of any group as being one is a sign of agreement. No one agrees with me and I don't agree with anyone.

Savagewind,
If every Christian was able to do what Peter says at 1Pet 3:15. Think about that. If everyone was able to explain why he believes what he does, then all Christians would believe the same truths about all doctrines.
Consider also what 1Cor 1:10! If all Christians spoke the same things, and had the same line of thought, and had NO divisions, they would all be part of God 's One true faith, Eph 4:4-6. Notice, there is only one baptism, which is now saving everyone, 1Pet 3:20,21. There is, it seems, ONE faith that God blesses, just as there was only ONE Ark in Noah's day, threre is one way to salvation today.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I have observed most religions of a Christian nature are more about what you can't know than what you can know. If you wish to be a member of any number of Christians religions you must change your mind for it. Each religion has it's own creed. You must agree with it, at least out loud, or you are not welcome.

I think everyone is able to agree that there is much that is still unknown. If someone knows something that does not rest with the creed that something must be expunged from the mind of the hopeful believer.

Alzheimer's disease is about the brain's missing power.

Knowledge is power. Some knowledge is not allowed. They say to be saved a person must lose certain precepts because they don't match the creed for salvation.

See?

Completely agree.

Ciao

- viole
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
:drool:

Savagewind,
If every Christian was able to do what Peter says at 1Pet 3:15. Think about that. If everyone was able to explain why he believes what he does, then all Christians would believe the same truths about all doctrines.
Consider also what 1Cor 1:10! If all Christians spoke the same things, and had the same line of thought, and had NO divisions, they would all be part of God 's One true faith, Eph 4:4-6. Notice, there is only one baptism, which is now saving everyone, 1Pet 3:20,21. There is, it seems, ONE faith that God blesses, just as there was only ONE Ark in Noah's day, threre is one way to salvation today.

1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

My reason for believing Christ is Lord is not related to "all doctrine". Jesus is not doctrine.

You say "if everyone spoke and thought the same they would all be a part of God's one true faith." What is everyone thought satan is god?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Alzheimers is a mind with important things missing.

Have you ever witnessed this disease first hand? It's crippling, ridiculously hard on relatives, and the mind totally dissipates. I lost my mother to this horrible disease, and I think you should seriously rethink this analogy. If nothing else it's amazingly insensitive, verging on cruel.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
1 Peter does not say....in your heart revere scripture as lord, always prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give a reason for the trust you have in it.

Oh and by the way, JWs go door to door telling all people who have not asked what the right oneness of faith is.

Why go against 1 Peter 3:15 but tell me I must go for the scriptures YOU tell me to go for?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Have you ever witnessed this disease first hand? It's crippling, ridiculously hard on relatives, and the mind totally dissipates. I lost my mother to this horrible disease, and I think you should seriously rethink this analogy. If nothing else it's amazingly insensitive, verging on cruel.

I have met someone with it. I have not had to care for anyone with it. I apologize. But why is it insulting? I think most people think very highly of religion. Have I said something that is not true?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I believe religion is crippling, ridiculously hard on everything but each religion and causes the evolution of the mind to falter.
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
hey Savage,
I've been trying to follow this thread but I get lost in the real meaning of the references to Peter's verses.
I find Petre to be a "stone" in a lot of ways, but he was a pawn of Paul's backward thinking.
But that's not very important here...
In the thinking offered by Vinayaka,
one must start thinking of the losses of the one suffering the desease.
If in indeed one losses the function of belief in ones following, regardless the religion,
then one loses an important factor of their life's reality.
I have witnessed, and care given for two different patients, and being an atheist I had a hard understanding the problem.
It finally came to me and I personnally felt an increased suffering with them, especially with the second one.
This is not a critique, but a heads up sort awakening, the loss of any religion is much harder than the lost thinking.
I'm not making a lot of sense here am I ? But give it some more thought, there's a big difference.
~
Good thinking anyways,
'mud
 
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