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Religion & Logic
- Thread starter Rival
- Start date
Jumi
Well-Known Member
Indeed you gave the option to be an atheist ideologue who will by his very being have the inability to swallow the idea.I didn't ask you to be humble and accept my view. I am typing. You are free to read or not, as you wish, with my non-religious blessingin either case.
Yes, now you understand the kind of lesson in humility you proposed when it was proposed back to you. The joke is how it's expressed.
Tumah
Veteran Member
What practical purpose does the goal of being filled with a sense of the unknowable do for you? It doesn't seem like a very important reason to have an entire creation.I'm not quite sure where to put this thread but I figured a Moderator will move it if necessary.
I've met a lot of people who seemed overly concerned to make Religion (or Faith, or Spirituality, or whatever be your preferred word) logical. Also: Rational, scientific, up-to-date, the list goes on. Personally, I'm not concerned to make my Faith logical. If my Faith were supposed to be scientific and rational, I'd just become a Scientist. To make Spirituality logical and scientific is to take the very essence away from it. It is supposed to be mysterious, mythic, inspirational, maybe even a little strange, supernatural, poetic, even confusing - confusing to remind us of how little we know in such a vast universe.
My Faith isn't supposed to answer questions about where we came from, where we're going or how to cure your psoriasis. It serves a completely different purpose. It fills me with a sense of the unknowable, the mysterious, the other. The Hebrews have a great words for this: qadosh. Literally other, to be set apart for a special purpose. We translate it holy. In other words, my Religion isn't here to give me knowledge or any such science, in an almost opposite way it's here to remind me of how much I don't know and allow me to appreciate that.
Of course, I believe in Ahuramazda, but I won't ever turn to you and say I have proof that God exists, or that I know he created us, or that I know something everyone else doesn't, because I don't. If you want logical, sure, go Atheism, but I take God for granted. Some societies don't even have a word for God, because it's just assumed that he/it just is and there is no word to describe the vast presence and power, otherness and beauty of it.
Sorry, but in my own twisted way, I don't want a logical faith.
I wasn't looking for a debate on this, just sort of my two cents, as the Americans say, but feel free to comment.
Also, the Hebrew word "qadosh" is not related to "mysterious." It just means, "set apart." And could be used in reference to a sanctified vessel just as well as a prostitute.
I'm not interested in the issue of credit at all, that's your thing.
You want to label me a partial Catholic even while saying that it is not about giving Catholicism credit?
How would that work?
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Religion and logic seems to me to be against each other, there certainly is no logic in religion.
You want to have the usual theist vs. atheist debate, and I'm just not interested. Good luck with it!
Hey, it was your choice to make a partial Catholic out of me with no evidence or reason to support it. Don't blame me for that.
Only by certain understandings of what religion is. Understandings that I find unhelpful.
I will grant that there are a great many people attempting to prove you correct in that statement, alas.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
well its either you can prove your beliefs or you can't, its that simple.
Hardly. Not everything that is logical is evidenciable.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Yes so true, but it seems that its more so with religious beliefs.
Ok then, so I propose we have an eternal squabble-fest which seeks controversy at all costs and repeats the same pointless ego babble over and over and over again for the coming many centuries, until such time as we overload all the servers in the world collapsing modern civilization and bringing on an era of existential chaos which will finally (FINALLY!) force the evil Catholic Church to it's knees, thus bringing on the atheist utopia.
I'm excited to get started, aren't you?
That IMO evidences that religion and belief have both been abused, not that they can't be made to work logically.
Come back when you want to mean what you say, how about that?
Vishvavajra
Active Member
It's more accurate to say that Western culture is a child of Greco-Roman culture generally. Roman Christianity was one manifestation of that. Yes, Christianity started as a Judaic movement, but Catholicism is more Roman in character than Judaic.
I won't dispute that Western Christianity (i.e. Catholicism and its Protestant offshoots) has had a profound influence on Western culture, but it's a continuation of a phenomenon that predates Christianity.