Religion, Philosophy, and spirituality

[MoonWater]

These three concepts tend to dance with and around each other constantly so I thought I'd create a thread where people can compare and contrast these three concepts with eachother as well as to the personal definitions that others give them. So how about we start by having those who wish to give their definitions of each term and then we'll see where things go from there.

 

[kai]

religion
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
philosophy
the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct.
spirituality
and here i am stuck , i had the help of a dictionary with the first two and i agree with the definitions but spirituality ,i dont know what that means to me.

 

[Somkid]

Since I am a professor of philosophy and religion I hope my answer will be accepted by all. One thing I will tell you is that unlike most professionals like scientists, mathematicians, engineers, medical professionals, etc. there is no such thing as an expert in philosophy or religion because there are too many variables and no person can know them all or be objective in every situation.

Religion is a personal set religious ideas, attitudes, beliefs or practices in general religion is based on beliefs held to with ardor and faith.

Philosophy is all learning exclusive of technical precepts and practical arts such as the sciences and liberal arts exclusive of medicine, law, and theology which should not be confused with religion which is a practice and theology is the study of religion. Ethics and logic are core principals of philosophy having to do with what is good for all beings not just human beings or particular religious groups or political institution's. Philosophy studies aesthetics, ethics, metaphysics, and epistemology Philosophy is also the pursuit of wisdom or a search for a general understanding of values and reality by chiefly speculative rather than observational means it is an analysis of the grounds of and concepts expressing fundamental beliefs the most basic beliefs. Philosophy is the beginning of all our disciplines before they can be put into a specific study, we have to dream before we can do.

As far as spiritually goes I'll let someone else answer that one because it covers way too much and I'm no expert in the matter by a long shot.

 

[rojse]

Religion - a set of individual beliefs that creates moral accountability on actions outside of a person's own opinions (eg. God, karma)

Philosophy - examining ideas and answering questions that cannot be answered through scientific methods, such as morality, the existence of God, the merits of government systems, and so forth.

I have nothing for sprituality.

I don't see religion and philosophy as related. Many religions assume the existence of a deity, while philosophy does not. Religion places obligations on it's followers, and has concrete views about all sorts of subjects. Philosophy never stops questioning, nor does it assume an answer is ever correct. At best, I see religion as being related to theosophy, which is merely one subset of philosophy.

 

[eudaimonia]

These definitions are not bad, but are not represented as perfect and complete.

This definition of religion is not meant to encompass everything that we might call a religion, such as various dharmas. Buddhism, for instance, would not necessarily be a religion, unless people make it so in their own life. In this case, I would term it a spirituality instead.

Religion -- "A system of beliefs and practices resting on the assumption that events within the world are subject to some supernatural power or powers such that human needs, either physical or psychological, can be satisfied by men's entering into relations with such powers" -- George Walsh

Philosophy -- "Philosophy studies the fundamental nature of existence, of man, and of man's relationship to existence." -- Ayn Rand

Spirituality (my definition) -- In the broadest sense, spirituality is the active fulfillment of one's deepest psychological needs by means of an improvement of one's perspective on life and existence.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[sandandfoam]

All 3 are tools. Tools to help understand everything I am capable of understanding and to help become everything I am capable of becoming.

 

[Willamena]

Religion -- "A system of beliefs and practices resting on the assumption that events within the world are subject to some supernatural power or powers such that human needs, either physical or psychological, can be satisfied by men's entering into relations with such powers" -- George Walsh

Or rather, perhaps, "An institution of beliefs and practices..."

 

[PureX]

I'd put them in reverse order. I'd start with "spirituality" because I think that is the least defined and most inclusive of the three concepts. To me, "spirituality" is in it's broadest sense the overall experience of being who we are. It includes what we know about ourselves and what we don't. It's a conceptual category that is actually larger than our conscious awareness.

Whereas "philosophy" is the conceptual category of our conscious contemplation of our experience of being. It excludes for the most part what we don't know, and those aspects of ourselves that we are unaware of. And then it hypothesizes about what's left.

Religion is much further down the list, and should be placed beneath "theology" which is a sub-category of philosophy that deals specifically with the concept of deity and our relationship to it. And religion, then, is the actual practice of a specific theological position through one's own life.

I feel this aspect of the Tao Te Ching illuminates these differences very well:

The Master doesn't try to be powerful;
thus he is truly powerful.
The ordinary man keeps reaching for power;
thus he never has enough.

The Master does nothing,
yet he leaves nothing undone.
The ordinary man is always doing things,
yet many more are left to be done.

The kind man does something,
yet something remains undone.
The just man does something,
and leaves many things to be done.
The moral man does something,
and when no one responds
he rolls up his sleeves and uses force.

When the Tao is lost, there is goodness.
When goodness is lost, there is morality.
When morality is lost, there is ritual.
Ritual is the husk of true faith,
the beginning of chaos.

Therefore the Master concerns himself
with the depths and not the surface,
with the fruit and not the flower.
He has no will of his own.
He dwells in reality,
and lets all illusions go.​

 

[eudaimonia]

Or rather, perhaps, "An institution of beliefs and practices..."

I could go with that, though it would imply that no one can be a solitary practitioner of a religion, and I'm not sure that I'd go that far.

When the Tao is lost, there is goodness.
When goodness is lost, there is morality.
When morality is lost, there is ritual.
Ritual is the husk of true faith,
the beginning of chaos.

I'd have to disagree with the Tao Te Ching in this. Ritual is not in-and-of-itself a bad thing. It depends on the role it plays in one's life.

You can have the Tao, goodness, morality, and ritual together. And one can be a stepping stone for another, and each can be celebrated.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[timtim1234]

I dont get this ritual

 

[rojse]

These definitions are not bad, but are not represented as perfect and complete.

This definition of religion is not meant to encompass everything that we might call a religion, such as various dharmas. Buddhism, for instance, would not necessarily be a religion, unless people make it so in their own life. In this case, I would term it a spirituality instead.

Religion -- "A system of beliefs and practices resting on the assumption that events within the world are subject to some supernatural power or powers such that human needs, either physical or psychological, can be satisfied by men's entering into relations with such powers" -- George Walsh

You can't really define a religion by first excluding religions. This is doing a great disservice to the many religions that do not have a supreme deity, such as Hinduism or Buddhism. So let us stick with the common consensus - it is called a religion, therefore, it is.

Philosophy -- "Philosophy studies the fundamental nature of existence, of man, and of man's relationship to existence." -- Ayn Rand

I think that this could easily be fitted to a definition of science, for isn't the fundamental nature of existence chemistry and physics, and the fundamental nature of man biology?

Spirituality (my definition) -- In the broadest sense, spirituality is the active fulfillment of one's deepest psychological needs by means of an improvement of one's perspective on life and existence.

An excellent definition.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Since I am a professor of philosophy and religion I hope my answer will be accepted by all.

Uh, are you serious? You said it yourself.

One thing I will tell you is that unlike most professionals like scientists, mathematicians, engineers, medical professionals, etc. there is no such thing as an expert in philosophy or religion because there are too many variables and no person can know them all or be objective in every situation.

Philosophy is all learning exclusive of technical precepts and practical arts such as the sciences and liberal arts exclusive of medicine, law, and theology

Uh, again, I have to ask: are you serious? :sarcastic Philosophical ideas do not exist in isolation.

Ethics and logic are core principals of philosophy having to do with what is good for all beings not just human beings or particular religious groups or political institution's. Philosophy studies aesthetics, ethics, metaphysics, and epistemology Philosophy is also the pursuit of wisdom or a search for a general understanding of values and reality by chiefly speculative rather than observational means it is an analysis of the grounds of and concepts expressing fundamental beliefs the most basic beliefs. Philosophy is the beginning of all our disciplines before they can be put into a specific study, we have to dream before we can do.

Whew! Some sanity, at last.

As far as spiritually goes I'll let someone else answer that one because it covers way too much and I'm no expert in the matter by a long shot.

No question about that, but it sounds like you've educated yourself to imbicility (Don't be offended. It's an observation made by a profess about some of his fellow professors).

 

[Somkid]

Uh, are you serious? You said it yourself.

Uh, again, I have to ask: are you serious? :sarcastic Philosophical ideas do not exist in isolation.

Whew! Some sanity, at last. No question about that, but it sounds like you've educated yourself to imbicility (Don't be offended. It's an observation made by a profess about some of his fellow professors).

I'm giving you the straight up text book definition it is not my opinion, and yes, I am serious I'm a professor of philosophy and religion at Chiang Mai University. Look in a dictionary and find the definition of religion and philosophy then I won't be offended.

 

[PureX]

I could go with that, though it would imply that no one can be a solitary practitioner of a religion, and I'm not sure that I'd go that far.



I'd have to disagree with the Tao Te Ching in this. Ritual is not in-and-of-itself a bad thing. It depends on the role it plays in one's life.

You can have the Tao, goodness, morality, and ritual together. And one can be a stepping stone for another, and each can be celebrated.


eudaimonia,

Mark

The Tao Te Ching is not claiming that ritual is bad. It's simply pointing out that when we are reduced to dependance upon ritual (having lost alignment with the tao, having lost the expression of our innate goodness, and having lost our sense of moral imperative) we are poised to fall into chaos.

The tao includes our innate goodness, our sense of moral imperative, and the reassurance of ritual. Our innate goodness includes our sense of moral imperative, and the reassurance of ritual. And our sense of moral imperative includes the reassurance of ritual. But the reassurance of ritual, by itself, holds no value, and soon leaves us in chaos.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Let's be real. Text book definitions are hardly adequate in the real world, the world outside academia.

"Philosophy is to religion as conception is to action."

"Science is man's attempted study of his physical environment, the world of energy-matter; religion is man's experience with the cosmos of spirit values; philosophy has been developed by man's mind effort to organize and correlate the findings of these widely separated concepts into something like a reasonable and unified attitude toward the cosmos."

"Religion is so vital that it persists in the absence of learning. It lives in spite of its contamination with erroneous cosmologies and false philosophies; it survives even the confusion of metaphysics. In and through all the historic vicissitudes of religion there ever persists that which is indispensable to human progress and survival: the ethical conscience and the moral consciousness."

"True religion is an insight into reality, the faith-child of the moral consciousness, and not a mere intellectual assent to any body of dogmatic doctrines. True religion consists in the experience that "the Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God." Religion consists not in theologic propositions but in spiritual insight and the sublimity of the soul's trust."

"Religion is the revelation to man [the realization] of his divine and eternal destiny. Religion is a purely personal and spiritual experience and must forever be distinguished from man's other high forms of thought, such as:

1. Man's logical attitude toward the things of material reality.
2. Man's aesthetic appreciation of beauty contrasted with ugliness.
3. Man's ethical recognition of social obligations and political duty.
4. Even man's sense of human morality is not, in and of itself, religious.

"Religion is man's supreme experience...but finite language makes it forever impossible for theology ever adequately to depict real religious experience."

"Religion is an exclusively individual experience."

"Religion is only an exalted humanism until it is made divine by the discovery of the reality of the presence of God in personal experience." (Many have a theology but few have religion.)

"True religion is the act of an individual soul in its self-conscious relations with the Creator; organized religion is man's attempt to socialize the worship of individual religionists."

"True religion is an experience of believing and knowing as well as a satisfaction of feeling."

"Spirituality becomes at once the indicator of one's nearness to God and the measure of one's usefulness to fellow beings. Spirituality enhances the ability to discover beauty in things, recognize truth in meanings, and discover goodness in values. Spiritual development is determined by capacity therefor and is directly proportional to the elimination of the selfish qualities of love."

 

[Somkid]

Opinion and fact are two different things, I have my own opinion of what philosophy and religion are however it would be irresponsible to give my opinion as fact so I stuck with the facts. If you wish to dispute the dictionary, encyclopedia or other valid reference texts then feel free to do so however do not criticize others for using these tools that our civilization has been built on.

"Well, what do you think philosophy is? Most people can't answer this question. It's too abstract. It's also controversial. Philosophers themselves can't agree on any answer. Sure, the name "philosophy" derives from the Greek for "love of wisdom", but what's that? There has been a long and glorious history of people called philosophers, but they talk about all kinds of topics in all kinds of ways. It is not clear what, if anything, they have in common that makes them all philosophers.
Still, though many philosophers would dispute what I say, I will give you one model of philosophy. For me, philosophy is defined by a goal and a method".
Professor Walter Sinnott-Armstrong, Dartmouth College

He seems to agree with me??

How about this?

Philosophy studies the fundamental nature of existence, of man, and of man's relationship to existence. … In the realm of cognition, the special sciences are the trees, but philosophy is the soil which makes the forest possible.
—Ayn Rand

The topics that philosophy addresses fall into several distinct fields. Among those of fundamental concern are:

• Metaphysics (the theory of reality).
• Epistemology (the theory of knowledge)
• Ethics (the theory of moral values)
• Politics (the theory of legal rights and government)
• Aesthetics (the theory of the nature of art)

What is wrong with that?

Wikipedia says this about religion:

A religion is a set of common beliefs and practices generally held by a group of people, often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience. The term "religion" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction.

I said it in a nut shell.

I fail to see your quarrel with my definition. As I said as far as spiritually goes is to broad of an idea for me to even touch so I won't, not here anyway.

 

[eudaimonia]

The Tao Te Ching is not claiming that ritual is bad. It's simply pointing out that when we are reduced to dependance upon ritual (having lost alignment with the tao, having lost the expression of our innate goodness, and having lost our sense of moral imperative) we are poised to fall into chaos.

The tao includes our innate goodness, our sense of moral imperative, and the reassurance of ritual. Our innate goodness includes our sense of moral imperative, and the reassurance of ritual. And our sense of moral imperative includes the reassurance of ritual. But the reassurance of ritual, by itself, holds no value, and soon leaves us in chaos.

In that case, I have no quarrel with that quote.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[eudaimonia]

You can't really define a religion by first excluding religions.

Why, yes I can!

After all, "what is a religion?" is the very issue in question. To suggest that I am excluding religions before defining religion is begging the question.

To put it another way, why should I accept that just because someone has called some belief or practice a religion, then it must be considered a religion. After all, Buddhism calls itself a dharma. "Religion" is a Western concept. I gave a quote that goes to the roots of where the word had originated and how it was used.

This is doing a great disservice to the many religions that do not have a supreme deity, such as Hinduism or Buddhism. So let us stick with the common consensus - it is called a religion, therefore, it is.

(Hinduism doesn't have a supreme deity?)

It's not intended as an insult, and I don't believe it does them any disservice.

I'm sorry if you don't like that I have a different view on this matter, but so it is. However, I'm certainly willing to see where broader definitions of "religion" will take us.

I think that this could easily be fitted to a definition of science, for isn't the fundamental nature of existence chemistry and physics, and the fundamental nature of man biology?

No, IMV, neither of these statements are true. I'm not a reductionist.

Also, the quote uses the term "fundamental nature of existence" to refer to issues in metaphysics. Chemistry and physics are not fundamental, but specialized investigations.

"In the realm of cognition, the special sciences are the trees, but philosophy is the soil which makes the forest possible." -- Ayn Rand

An excellent definition.

Thank you.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[michel]

Isn't "Religion" the practical way to manifest spirituality in groups?

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Isn't "Religion" the practical way to manifest spirituality in groups?

Yes! :yes:

I define “spirit” as self-reflection and purposive energy melded together as one. Life feels itself and its intellections are merely surface manifestations of the inner life. They have worth only at the most superficial level of existence. Every person of normal mind is spiritual in some measure, but not everyone is religious. That is, not everyone make a conscious decision to evolve the inner life.

The great difference between a religious and a nonreligious philosophy of living consists in the nature and level of recognized values and in the object of loyalties. There are four phases in the evolution of religious philosophy: Such an experience may become merely conformative, resigned to submission to tradition and authority. Or it may be satisfied with slight attainments, just enough to stabilize the daily living, and therefore becomes early arrested on such an adventitious level. Such mortals believe in letting well enough alone. A third group progress to the level of logical intellectuality but there stagnate in consequence of cultural slavery. It is indeed pitiful to behold giant intellects held so securely within the cruel grasp of cultural bondage. It is equally pathetic to observe those who trade their cultural bondage for the materialistic fetters of a science, falsely so called. The fourth level of philosophy attains freedom from all conventional and traditional handicaps and dares to think, act, and live honestly, loyally, fearlessly, and truthfully.