Religion, Philosophy, and spirituality

[PureX]

If you like reading many thousands of words that come to no discernible conclusion, Rand is your author.

 

[doppelganger]

I don't have much respect for Rand as a philosopher, though as a mythmaker she obviously has had an impact.

That she considered Nietzsche to be an inspiration for objectivism at one point . . .

 

[Somkid]

I don't know of too many hospitals that employ ethicists, and I have some friends that do. If this was the case, I would suspect it would be more motivated towards public relations, or, in a more capitalist-based hospital system, as a reason to charge more in fees.

If this is true, not just for hospitals, but for the other examples you give, what use is a philosopher to them? I ask only out of genuine interest.

Separate to this, for your statement about philosophy and the universe, what will this philosophical statement prove about the universe through argument or logic? What will philosophy bring to the mathematical equation that science could not?

[FONT=&quot]I'm not sure where you're from, I'm from Pennsylvania originally and most of our hospitals (that you would want to go to) have a pastoral care department and an ethicist to aid and assist in end of life decisions and aid and assist the family and patient with decisions about medical treatment or non treatment as well as going to meetings with doctors when they put together a panel to discuss the course of action to take in a particular case.

As a chaplain if you were to come in as a trauma victim it was my responsibility to find out who you are, where you are from and who your next of kin is. If I can not find your next of kin I take on that roll and make the best calls I can for you, should it be a question of saving your life or letting you die and no one can be found that comes down to the chaplain and the ethicist. It is also the chaplains job to dig through your personal possessions and see if you are a card carrying religious person for example some religions refuse blood transfusion it is the chaplains job to find that information and not allow the doctors to do it, if you are Catholic the chaplain has to call in a priest to give the sacrament of the sick, and so on we are also responsible for living wills and DNR's, I know most of the hospitals in PA,NJ and NY have this type of set up.

The first thing you will notice with the majority of philosophers throughout history is that most of them had a background in science, medicine or something along the lines (as do I). I guess it's obvious that hospitals do not directly charge for the chaplains or ethicists but you never see a charge for orderlies, house keeping, nurses (other than triage,), the team in the ER that actually figures out how to bill and who to bill, etc. but its no secret a hospital charges $1.50 for an aspirin and $1,000 a day and up for a room that's where the money comes from.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]As far as straight up philosophy goes, in some disciplines the aim of research is to discover new facts, to gather new data, to put hypotheses and theories to the test by way of new experimental evidence or calculations, and, in general, to generate new knowledge using the scientific method which is a product of philosophy.

One of its most distinctive forms is the attempt to achieve theoretical integrations of various domains of phenomena. In the philosophy of mind, for example, philosophers may reflect on both our experiences of mental life and on what the various sciences and other disciplines can reveal pertaining to it, seeking to develop an integrated theory of our mentality and humanity. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Research in philosophy also often takes the form of efforts to refine analysis, develop and advance or criticize interpretations, explore alternative perspectives and new ways of thinking, suggest and apply modified or novel modes of assessment, and, in general to promote new understanding. A special case of this type of research is conceptual and methodological critique, involving the scrutiny of the basic concepts and methodologies of other disciplines, scientific as well as humanistic. Other cases involve interpretive and evaluative inquiry contributing to the enhancement of our comprehension of ourselves and our world. All of these forms of endeavor contribute importantly to the philosophical and academic enterprise.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Philosophical inquiry by its very nature involves the attempt to think clearly and rigorously about difficult questions. The criteria of assessment of work in philosophy may be complex; but no other discipline is more attentive to the cultivation of intellectual conscience and of critical acumen. Disagreement and criticism are among the hallmarks of philosophical life; and it is rare to find two philosophers working in the same area who are in complete agreement with each other. The very best research in philosophy serves more often to generate disputes and differences than to resolve them. It is precisely through such ongoing argument and debate that sophistication with respect to the issues at hand increases, comprehension of them deepens, and understanding concerning them is enhanced. Many Western countries have "think tanks" before the group can reach an answer for the question which is put forward it is necessary to look at it from a philosophical point of view.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Research in philosophy is highly diverse, reflecting the diversity of the array of kinds of inquiry the discipline subsumes. So, for example, inquiry in some areas of philosophy is akin to kinds of inquiry pursued in mathematics and in some of the sciences; while in others it resembles the activities of those who study languages, literatures and the arts. The intimate relation between the history of philosophy and ongoing philosophical inquiry moreover gives rise to work on developments in that history resembling the kind of scholarship practiced in intellectual history, but which may be and often is of contemporary relevance.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]I hope this answers you questions and I’m sorry it took so long to answer I spent the last day thinking how to put it and sorry about the format I had to type it in word and copy and paste so I could see what I was writing. [/FONT]

 

[rojse]

[FONT=&quot]I'm not sure where you're from, I'm from Pennsylvania originally and most of our hospitals (that you would want to go to) have a pastoral care department and an ethicist to aid and assist in end of life decisions and aid and assist the family and patient with decisions about medical treatment or non treatment as well as going to meetings with doctors when they put together a panel to discuss the course of action to take in a particular case.

[/FONT]

I live in Australia, and I do not know of any ethicists that work in hospitals. Much of this is taken on by the hospital staff themselves, as far as I am aware. Perhaps this is an American practice, due to demands by consumers or through law, but this is not in Australia, as far as I am aware.

I can see the value of an ethicist, but why does this ethicist need to also be a philosopher? Could this not be done by someone who had experience in several different religions?

[FONT=&quot]

As a chaplain if you were to come in as a trauma victim it was my responsibility to find out who you are, where you are from and who your next of kin is. If I can not find your next of kin I take on that roll and make the best calls I can for you, should it be a question of saving your life or letting you die and no one can be found that comes down to the chaplain and the ethicist. It is also the chaplains job to dig through your personal possessions and see if you are a card carrying religious person for example some religions refuse blood transfusion it is the chaplains job to find that information and not allow the doctors to do it, if you are Catholic the chaplain has to call in a priest to give the sacrament of the sick, and so on we are also responsible for living wills and DNR's, I know most of the hospitals in PA,NJ and NY have this type of set up.

[/FONT]

In Australia, this is done by orderlies or nurses. They are required, by law, to obey any special demands of that person, such as .

[FONT=&quot]

The first thing you will notice with the majority of philosophers throughout history is that most of them had a background in science, medicine or something along the lines (as do I).

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
An interesting point. Perhaps scientists and philosophers are alike in that they always question, always seek answers, and are always open to the idea that they may be wrong.

[FONT=&quot]

I guess it's obvious that hospitals do not directly charge for the chaplains or ethicists but you never see a charge for orderlies, house keeping, nurses (other than triage,), the team in the ER that actually figures out how to bill and who to bill, etc. but its no secret a hospital charges $1.50 for an aspirin and $1,000 a day and up for a room that's where the money comes from.

[/FONT]

I would suspect, from this, that either ethicists are kept on staff either to reduce legal problems, or that they are required by American law.

[FONT=&quot]

As far as straight up philosophy goes, in some disciplines the aim of research is to discover new facts, to gather new data, to put hypotheses and theories to the test by way of new experimental evidence or calculations, and, in general, to generate new knowledge using the scientific method which is a product of philosophy.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]One of its most distinctive forms is the attempt to achieve theoretical integrations of various domains of phenomena. In the philosophy of mind, for example, philosophers may reflect on both our experiences of mental life and on what the various sciences and other disciplines can reveal pertaining to it, seeking to develop an integrated theory of our mentality and humanity.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Research in philosophy also often takes the form of efforts to refine analysis, develop and advance or criticize interpretations, explore alternative perspectives and new ways of thinking, suggest and apply modified or novel modes of assessment, and, in general to promote new understanding. A special case of this type of research is conceptual and methodological critique, involving the scrutiny of the basic concepts and methodologies of other disciplines, scientific as well as humanistic. Other cases involve interpretive and evaluative inquiry contributing to the enhancement of our comprehension of ourselves and our world. All of these forms of endeavor contribute importantly to the philosophical and academic enterprise.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]It is interesting and stimulating, certainly, but what does this philosophy allow us to do in a practical sense, though?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]Philosophical inquiry by its very nature involves the attempt to think clearly and rigorously about difficult questions. The criteria of assessment of work in philosophy may be complex; but no other discipline is more attentive to the cultivation of intellectual conscience and of critical acumen. Disagreement and criticism are among the hallmarks of philosophical life; and it is rare to find two philosophers working in the same area who are in complete agreement with each other. The very best research in philosophy serves more often to generate disputes and differences than to resolve them. It is precisely through such ongoing argument and debate that sophistication with respect to the issues at hand increases, comprehension of them deepens, and understanding concerning them is enhanced. Many Western countries have "think tanks" before the group can reach an answer for the question which is put forward it is necessary to look at it from a philosophical point of view.

This is what I like about philosphy, and what I hate about it at the same time. Although it asks important questions, as you mentioned, in a rigorous and demanding manner, and the answers are different, there is no real way to evaluate the meaningfulness of these answers, except according to your own personal experiences. The answer one philosopher gives might seem correct to me, but ask someone else, and they will prefer a different answer.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

Research in philosophy is highly diverse, reflecting the diversity of the array of kinds of inquiry the discipline subsumes. So, for example, inquiry in some areas of philosophy is akin to kinds of inquiry pursued in mathematics and in some of the sciences; while in others it resembles the activities of those who study languages, literatures and the arts. The intimate relation between the history of philosophy and ongoing philosophical inquiry moreover gives rise to work on developments in that history resembling the kind of scholarship practiced in intellectual history, but which may be and often is of contemporary relevance.

[/FONT]

I appreciate this difference, as philosophical questions can be found in quite a variety of different areas.

[FONT=&quot]

I hope this answers you questions and I’m sorry it took so long to answer I spent the last day thinking how to put it and sorry about the format I had to type it in word and copy and paste so I could see what I was writing. [/FONT]

I have no problem with this, I prefer a well-thought out and meaningful reply to a short and hasty one. Thank you.

 

[rojse]

To Somkid,

Although this is a pretty big demand, I would like to know how philosophy has contributed to science. You have mentioned that it contributed the scientific method to science (arguably the most important contribution possible) but how has philosophical thought contribute to scientific research since that?

For example, has it inspired research into different possible solutions for scientific problems? Has it given possible answers to problems which can be verified by science? Something like this would be very helpful for someone that is trying to find a real-life application for philosophy apart from intellectual contemplation.

 

[eudaimonia]

I see that the Rand-hecklers are p***ing in the topic. I'm very disappointed because I expected better of Religious Forums. I thought there was a higher caliber of people posting here. I guess that I was wrong.

It looks like no one wants a mature discussion on the meaning of religion, philosophy, and spirituality. I'm outta this topic. Maybe the site.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Willamena]

Although this is a pretty big demand, I would like to know how philosophy has contributed to science. You have mentioned that it contributed the scientific method to science (arguably the most important contribution possible) but how has philosophical thought contribute to scientific research since that?

Science was originally a philosophy, that is a method of discovering the world through "observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena," all of which activities have man at their centre. I don't think its philosophy has ever ceased contributing to its applications.

Something like this would be very helpful for someone that is trying to find a real-life application for philosophy apart from intellectual contemplation.

Good luck with that.

 

[Wandered Off]

One of my favorite observations:

Philosophy is disciplined bewilderment.

from Toni Kannisto