Religious Brains vs Atheist Brains

[Buddha Dharma]

I agree, but I think people can be "meditative" without actually doing mediation

That's Epicurean meditation

 

[shunyadragon]

I would strongly question the premise that Buddhism doesn't require belief in god. As a very traditional Buddhist, I believe the Buddha when he says he talked to Brahma and others, and he had the awakened eye of Anutara Samyak Sambodhi. It comes close to questioning the Blessed One's judgment when a Buddhist denies there are gods in the cosmos. They say the Tathagata was wrong.

Was the Blessed One mistaken when he spoke of the gods, their karmic effects on the cosmos, and said some of them took refuge in the Triple Gem? What else can we speculate the Buddha was wrong about? What parts of the Dharma are we going to pick out to believe, because we want to be skeptics- thinking our ego sense knows better? What parts of the sublime Dharma are we going to discard?

Buddhism means having faith in the Buddha. That his words and teachings are true. Several monks throughout history have said a Buddhist without faith in the Buddha's full teaching are defaming the Triple Gem.

I do not believe the issue here whether belief in God is necessary for Buddhism. The issue is whether 'belief in God' is necessarily involved here concerning the effects of deep meditation on the brain. The answer is no the research only addressed those who practice deep meditation and prayer, and not whether they believed in God,

Nonetheless I believe Buddha believed in the unknowable undefinable ultimate Brahma, which would not be the anthropomorphic God(s) of other religions nor the imagination of humans.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

The issue is whether 'belief in God' is necessarily involved here concerning the effects of deep meditation on the brain. The answer is no the research only addressed those who practice deep meditation and prayer, and not whether they believed in God

I'm aware that's the issue. It is hard for me to let certain statements pass by, I'll admit

 

[Trailblazer]

That's Epicurean meditation

Oh, I never heard of that...

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Oh, I never heard of that...

According to Neo-Epicurean Haris Dimitriadis, spontaneous meditative states are essential to generating or prolonging Ataraxia (Epicurean pleasure).

He defines this as allowing oneself to at times fix their attention on an object or point somewhere in the background and ride the pleasure of the conceptual mind temporarily interrupted. He doesn't consider this seeking meditation out, because it's like giving into a daydream impulse.

I think mindful acting could also be meditativeness, as you called it.

 

[Trailblazer]

According to Neo-Epicurean Haris Dimitriadis, spontaneous meditative states are essential to generating or prolonging Ataraxia (Epicurean pleasure).

He defines this as allowing oneself to at times fix their attention on an object or point somewhere in the background and ride the pleasure of the conceptual mind temporarily interrupted. He doesn't consider this seeking meditation out, because it's like giving into a daydream impulse.

Okay, thanks for explaining that.

I think mindful acting could also be meditativeness, as you called it.

Yes, that is what I meant.

 

[osgart]

I think a being is more than mind. Thus there is more to experience than pure mental states.

Whereas some only regard the mind as being real. Or at least consequential illusion.

The deep sense of love and peace is very palpable to me as I allow myself to feel those things.

It's the difference between being a screen saver, vs an audio track with inspiring video.

This reminds me of a song

Where a girl learns the difference in being alive, vs being aware. Knowing your heart.

I wonder if she realized it ain't just illusion.

That's just how I see the song.

 

[Sha'irullah]

The activity in the frontal lobe of the baseline brain appears to curve to the right, while in the meditation brain, it curves to the left. Could this have political implications?

Meditation is for stinkin' hippies!

Now get your pothead kids off my lawn you young whipper snapper!

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'm not a believer in neurotheology, but I would think that there is more activity and awareness in the religious brain, especially the frontal lobes, versus that of an atheist brain. This isn't to say that atheists are dull thinkers, but that they do not experience the full sense of consciousness or awareness of that of a religious person. The atheists are in a state of continual dissatisfaction and pain. Through prayer, chanting and meditation, the religious are able to tap into their neurological selves better in order to better achieve a closer to Nirvana or enlightenment state. In this sense, I am for the better enlightenment of all here.

Neurotheology: This Is Your Brain On Religion

Phhht...

 

[Sunstone]

Since Buddhism doesn't require a belief in God and these studies were done on Buddhists, I don't why atheism is referenced in the OP.

Meditation is meditation. Theism is not required to meditate.

Otherwise I'm comfortable with the idea that meditation improves one's mental state.

SECULAR MEDITATION

^This

 

[Sunstone]

@james bond Andrew Newberg is an excellent research scientist and science writer. It's quite sad that you have misrepresented his work -- apparently in order to take a dig at atheists.

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm not a believer in neurotheology, but I would think that there is more activity and awareness in the religious brain, especially the frontal lobes, versus that of an atheist brain. This isn't to say that atheists are dull thinkers, but that they do not experience the full sense of consciousness or awareness of that of a religious person. The atheists are in a state of continual dissatisfaction and pain. Through prayer, chanting and meditation, the religious are able to tap into their neurological selves better in order to better achieve a closer to Nirvana or enlightenment state. In this sense, I am for the better enlightenment of all here.

Neurotheology: This Is Your Brain On Religion

Any analysis that confuses theism with religiosity is doomed to confuse itself out of any useful conclusions.

 

[Jumi]

I see this more as the meditative brain versus the baseline brain (more than atheist versus religious).

I think Meditation is so good for us and I am still too lazy to do it

Yeah, religious folks that don't meditate don't have an advantage and atheists who do meditate have that advantage.

Have you considered moving meditation techniques? They're much easier to get into than just sitting.

 

[james bond]

I see this more as the meditative brain versus the baseline brain (more than atheist versus religious).

I think Meditation is so good for us and I am still too lazy to do it

I would think the baseline is the "atheist" brain else it would be the religious brain.

 

[james bond]

I've definitely noted neurological activity and shifting that takes place during meditation. Sometimes you experience a sensation of nerves bulging in the head, and Alan Watts described it in a similar way. That is, something is happening to your brain. I've always noticed it when the brain is being pulled back and quieted through breathing. The mind doesn't like to be quiet, and left to it's own devices- it may not even know how.

And some are not quiet through their mouths. It's like their mouths are not connected to their brain, but this is supposedly impossible.

 

[james bond]

Yes, I agree there's nothing here about religion vs atheism. It's about what happens in meditation which can be done by believer and non-believer alike.

It's about meditating about God with the religious. Our prayers are like meditating when one does it over and over. Group chanting seems to have an effect, too. Group chanting/prayer leads to a reverent frame of mind.

EDIT: Meditation is like soaring by one's own powers vs being strapped to a rocket. One has a different feeling doing by themselves versus having a machine do it for them.

 

[Darkstorn]

It's about meditating about God with the religious.

You are lying.

" As part of his research, Andrew Newberg studied the brain activity of experienced Tibetan Buddhists before and during meditation. Newberg found an increase of activity in the meditators' frontal lobe, responsible for focusing attention and concentration, during meditation. He found similar results in a similar study of older individuals experiencing memory problems."

Your picture is of that. Buddhists don't necessarily believe in god(s) and the ones that do might believe in a different one than another. You're just trying to use this as an attack against atheism, but Buddhism is atheistic by itself.

I would think the baseline is the "atheist" brain else it would be the religious brain.

Well, of course YOU would think that. I think it's become obvious enough to be considered a running joke.

 

[Jumi]

It's about meditating about God with the religious. Our prayers are like meditating when one does it over and over. Group chanting seems to have an effect, too. Group chanting/prayer leads to a reverent frame of mind.

EDIT: Meditation is like soaring by one's own powers vs being strapped to a rocket. One has a different feeling doing by themselves versus having a machine do it for them.

Prayer at it's best can be compared to meditation, but pure meditation is better if you can do it.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Buddhists don't necessarily believe in god(s)

And again, 'don't necessarily' is because they're calling Lord Buddha wrong. They can do so if they wish, but it's an odd thing for a Buddhist to do

 

[shunyadragon]

Your picture is of that. Buddhists don't necessarily believe in god(s) and the ones that do might believe in a different one than another. You're just trying to use this as an attack against atheism, but Buddhism is atheistic by itself.

I do not believe Buddhism is atheistic by itself. It is true that the 'Source,' such as Brahman, is not considered as other religions describe or define God, which is rejected by Buddha as not existing. There is in reality a diverse understanding among Buddhists from many Zen Buddhists that believe in absolute atheists to Bubbhists that believe in a pantheon of deities.