Religious discrimination(work)

[frg001]

I wonder. I have been thinking about this one for a while now.
I used to be responsible for interviewing, and taking on certain new staff. Now I always tried to be fair, and not discriminate on any grounds.
But at my last place of work, certain people made it known that they required an extra long lunch break on a friday, and a prayer room.

Now if you were in charge of such matters for a small company, and you had 2 candidates, of equal merit, but one had these requirements, would you hire the other one?

The same can be said for a certain guy I knew who refused to work on sundays, even though the company had a 24 hour support mechanism. That persons refusal meant that the other few people involved had to do even more weekends (which nobody liked)

Would I be justified in both cases for 1. Not taking on anyone with requirements that did not suit the company, and 2. Enforcing compliance, or demoting the individual.

As it happens I never had to make this choice, but if I did, I would.

 

[Father Heathen]

Well, I think it would be a different matter if their beliefs interfered with the work itself.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

The reason for taking the actions (1) and (2) has everything to do with work and nothing to do with the person's religion. So I don't think it would be discrimination.

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

I wonder. I have been thinking about this one for a while now.
I used to be responsible for interviewing, and taking on certain new staff. Now I always tried to be fair, and not discriminate on any grounds.
But at my last place of work, certain people made it known that they required an extra long lunch break on a friday, and a prayer room.

Now if you were in charge of such matters for a small company, and you had 2 candidates, of equal merit, but one had these requirements, would you hire the other one?

The same can be said for a certain guy I knew who refused to work on sundays, even though the company had a 24 hour support mechanism. That persons refusal meant that the other few people involved had to do even more weekends (which nobody liked)

Would I be justified in both cases for 1. Not taking on anyone with requirements that did not suit the company, and 2. Enforcing compliance, or demoting the individual.

As it happens I never had to make this choice, but if I did, I would.

I think that most people choose because of personal reasons (apart of the needed qualifications). I think this is not "discriminating", it simply is normal.
In both of the above examples i would choose not to pick the ones that put an extra strain on me or others in the company.
I see no sense in having people work for me that require extra attention that others don't want and that I do not see as a must have.

 

[whereismynotecard]

I wouldn't hire the jerk who thinks he deserves extra lunch time and a special room.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'd say it depends on the work environment.

For example, if the candidate is applying for a job on an assembly line in a factory, it's very important that the whole work force takes their breaks together, so a longer lunch could be a major deal.

However, if it's in an office where the important thing is how much time you spend doing your work and not so much when you do it, I'm not sure what the big deal is... in many work environments, it can be a valuable perk for employees to implement some sort of flex time system. This way, one employee could take a longer lunch for prayers, another could leave a bit early to pick up his kid from day care, and another could choose to come in a bit later in the morning to miss rush hour... the end result is that your employees are a bit happier and it doesn't cost the company anything financially.

And as far as the room goes... I don't know of many workplaces where Friday lunchtime is a peak demand period for meeting rooms. Odds are that providing them with a space to pray wouldn't be that big a deal.

So... if I were the decision-maker, I'd pick the best candidate regardless of religion... though I'd probably need approval from my higher-ups before implementing a company-wide flex time program. I know that in the hypothetical example, the candidates were equal in every respect except one, but that never actually happens - in the real world, there would be some way to distinguish one from the other besides religious needs.

Personally, I have no problem with reasonable accommodation, but the key word is reasonable: shutting down the whole plant for an extra half hour every week is probably out of the question, but there would be no burden on me or the company in just giving someone use of a meeting room that's vacant anyhow and letting him make up the time later.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I wouldn't hire the jerk who thinks he deserves extra lunch time and a special room.

Everyone wants (or would like) something special. For this guy, it's a longer lunch and a room to himself. For someone else, it's the ability to take vacation in single-day increments instead of full weeks. I see little things like this as handy ways for a company to help keep its employees happy without incurring a lot of extra cost.

 

[Dunemeister]

I wouldn't hire the jerk who thinks he deserves extra lunch time and a special room.

He's not a jerk, he's a muslim. Devoted muslims are required to pray five times a day, and in the West, that means their faithfulness will interfere with the normal running of the average business. He's not lazy, and he doesn't think that he deserves something others don't. He's asking whether the company has the flexibility to accommodate him.

Some businesses can accommodate these things better than others. If the company can accommodate it, it should. But I don't think that companies ought to revamp their business model just to accommodate one person. If the Muslim really requires those prayer times, I'd suggest he go work for a Muslim businessman who has organized his business around his religious requirements, if such a company exists. If not, he's going to have to make allowances for the fact that he doesn't live in a Muslim country.

Similarly for the Christian. He may find that he has trouble finding work if he refuses to work on Sundays. That's not discrimination, it's hiring people based on availability and ability to work within the corporate business model. If a potential hiree can't do that, he shouldn't expect to get hired.

That said, I think that most business COULD develop a business model that accommodated religious diversity. But it would be difficult, especially for businesses that have been around a while.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That said, I think that most business COULD develop a business model that accommodated religious diversity. But it would be difficult, especially for businesses that have been around a while.

Why would it be difficult?

In most offices that I've worked in, as long as you put in your hours over the week, you make sure that someone's around to answer the phones during business hours and the clients are happy, the managers and owners generally haven't had problems with making allowances for people.

 

[Elessar]

I don't know. Having been on the receiving end of this (no one would hire me because I cannot work on the sabbath), I have to say it makes you feel discriminated against and, overall, ****** off.

 

[ChristineES]

I am a Christian, as you know. I would not even ask for extra time for prayer, I would do my prayer at home. Work is for working. I don't see anything wrong with a quick prayer at work if it doesn't interfere with your job, however. There are many places a person can go for special prayer.

As to whether I would hire one person over another, I would pick the best candidate- no matter what.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't know. Having been on the receiving end of this (no one would hire me because I cannot work on the sabbath), I have to say it makes you feel discriminated against and, overall, ****** off.

I've seen it from the other side, though: when I worked for an HVAC company, we had to have someone on call 24 hours a day every day of the year. Only one of the technicians was Jewish; nobody else wanted to be on call over Christmas, so he took that on-call shift in exchange for not having to do any long weekends over the year - everyone won!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am a Christian, as you know. I would not even ask for extra time for prayer, I would do my prayer at home. Work is for working.

That's fine if you're Christian, but if you're of another faith that teaches that you must pray at noon, unless you live exceptionally close to your workplace, praying at home isn't always an option.

I don't see anything wrong with a quick prayer at work if it doesn't interfere with your job, however. There are many places a person can go for special prayer.

And my personal feeling is that everyone would appreciate some sort of accommodation at work in some way, so why not accommodate this person if it's reasonable? The effort involved would be much less than I've seen at many companies to cater to smokers, for example.

 

[ChristineES]

I totally forgot about Muslims, who need to do this as part of their faith. If a Muslim was a good worker, then I don't see why he shouldn't have the extra time if he needs it. The same would go for any other faith.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

The only one I have a problem with is the 24 hour support and someone not wanting to take their turn on a sabbath day. Personally I would think this could be arranged logistically and in my company it is with no problems but I can see where a support position's requirements are for everyone to take turns working on days that most people take off, whether its for sabbath or not. There would certianly be a inclination to hire the person who will be the easiest to schedule and that isn't discrimination due to religion but rather plain laziness. I would go the extra mile to try and work out an acceptable solution but then, in my company our support staff is very large making the logistics easy. If you only have two people and were required to supply support 7 days a week you couldn't hire two Muslims or two Christians who both demanded the same day off. You could try and hire people who each required a different day off but how is that different from not hiring people due to their preferred day off?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

How about Chick-Fil-A, they are a very religious organization that is never open on Sunday.

Chick-fil-A - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Should they allow employees who are not Christian to have their holy days off as well?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Fun fact: one of my great-great uncles (I think I have the right number of "greats" in there) was the pilot for the Eaton family's private plane. He was an ardent Baptist and during the interview, he said that he wouldn't fly on Sundays. The Eatons were very religious themselves... apparently, that's what clinched the job for him.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How about Chick-Fil-A, they are a very religious organization that is never open on Sunday.

Chick-fil-A - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Should they allow employees who are not Christian to have their holy days off as well?

What's a standard work week at a fast food place like Chick-fil-A? Around 40 hours a week? Normally, you'd do that in five days, not six - you'd be taking a day off along with Sunday anyhow; why not make it your holy day?

Edit: Aren't scheduling difficulties par for the course in retail and food services? Personally, if I were a manager, I'd kinda prefer being able to say "okay... Isaac can't work Saturdays" and just black that day out for him every week than, for example, have to deal with the unpredictable scheduling conflicts that would come up every week with an employee who's trying to make a full-time job out of two part-time jobs... which was somewhat common when I was working in retail.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

What's a standard work week at a fast food place like Chick-fil-A? Around 40 hours a week? Normally, you'd do that in five days, not six - you'd be taking a day off along with Sunday anyhow; why not make it your holy day?

Yes but the question is, can a person declare that day as always his day off. If one employee says he needs Saturday off for religious reasons, is that fair to the employee who must now always work Saturdays to cover for him, meaning he never gets a Saturday/Sunday weekend. Is that fair, especially to teenagers whose social life revolve around weekends? The question is not as simple as you make it appear.

 

[ChristineES]

If one person can't come in, there is usually someone else who can cover him and then vice versa. All problems have solutions- if you are willing to look for them.