Religious Influence On Secularism?

[Rolling_Stone]

Is your stance on secularism informed by your religious beliefs, or lack thereof?

The other way around.

For instance, do you support secularism because your religion teaches that all paths are valid? Or, do you oppose secularism because your religion ascribes to divine law?

Neither. What is, is.

 

[Dunemeister]

Basically, my position on secularism comes down to the idea that one person's beliefs shouldn't be imposed on others, whether that comes in the form of reciting the Lord's Prayer before the town council meeting, giving special tax status to churches, or prohibiting school children from wearing hijabs and crucifixes.

Let's put this shoe on the other foot. Person A believes that Jesus Christ is the Lord of the Universe, so Jesus' authority extends over our governments and the schools they run. The government denying the practice of reciting the Lord's prayer -- an act of submission to the world's true Lord -- amounts to their imposing their belief on A that Jesus isn't actually the Lord.

Or perhaps a Hindu has created a new god. (I once had a fascinating discussion with a Hindu about how they routinely do this.) The province of this god is education, and so this god is the actual master of all the world's educational systems. As master of education, this god requires that all students everywhere perform a certain form of meditation during school hours for 15 minutes four times per day. The fact that the government will not do this is an imposition of their worldview upon that erstwhile Hindu.

So much for secular "religious neutrality." There's no such thing. Secularism imposes a set of values and a religious worldview, specifically an atheist or agnostic one. If we insist on having a secular government, that's a RELIGIOUS decision, one which has implications for everyone's belief and practice. It's anything but neutral, unbiased, or purely rational.

 

[Dunemeister]

You may joke about it, but it's in the bible, and if you really want the government to mandate "divine law", you can't cherry pick god's commandments now can you?

Just watch me.

 

[Father Heathen]

Just watch me.

Okay, so the government should enforce/impose "god's law", but can also conveniently omit and revise these "laws" as it wishes, and god will be okay with that?

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Okay, so the government should enforce/impose "god's law"

Actually, the laws it does impose are based on Judeo-Christian values, so in a sense, it already does.

but can also conveniently omit and revise these "laws" as it wishes, and god will be okay with that?

It does it all the time, and are things getting better for it?

 

[Quiddity]

I support any influence on secularism. Whether it be religious, non-religious, dogmatic, non-dogmatic (which I think is impossible, but that's another story), organized, not organized.

 

[Storm]

I support any influence on secularism.

um, ok, but do you support secularism itself? Why?

 

[Quiddity]

um, ok, but do you support secularism itself? Why?

It depends on what secularism happens to be at the time. If it's the type of secularism that is afraid of the Easter Bunny being part of the national anthom, then I'll push against it.

 

[Father Heathen]

Actually, the laws it does impose are based on Judeo-Christian values, so in a sense, it already does.

Okay, which ones and do they really originate exclusively from Judaism/Christianity?

It does it all the time, and are things getting better for it?

Well, yes, adjusting older laws to be more sensible, but is it done with god's will/blessing, or man's reason?

 

[tariqkhwaja]

Assalamualaikum.

I believe in secularism because I believe an Islamic state is, by definition, a secular state. Religion and state should have nothing to do with each other. "There is no compulsion in religion" is an oft quoted verse of the Quran. According to it in dealings with humans God commands us to be just and kind and treat others the likeness of our kindred (in that order of priority).

 

[Quiddity]

Truth is that I’m pro-secularism. My own Church has proven to have sucked at dealing with such matters. It’s just not the business we should be in.

However, separate from religion doesn’t equate to no religious input at all. Some would even take it further (secular fundies) and would right out ban religious images from anything considered to be public property. Because we all know that an image is bound to change our system as we know it.

How much is too much? Well, it depends on what we think will have an overwhelming impact on society. Nobody would accuse us of wanting a theocracy if we fought for equality for blacks or didn’t obey the law because we had Jews in our attic.

Thankfully, these happen to be things many of us agree upon now.

 

[Storm]

I agree with you, though we might differ on the details. Secularism can and has been taken too far. For instance, the so-called "Rational Response Squad" and their avowed War on Easter.

 

[Father Heathen]

I really don't have a problem with religious crap in public areas if A.) all religions are allowed equal time and access, B.) is evident that it's not endorsed by the State itself and C.) is not funded by tax money.

 

[Quiddity]

I really don't have a problem with religious crap in public areas if A.) all religions are allowed equal time and access, B.) is evident that it's not endorsed by the State itself and C.) is not funded by tax money.

I don't know how you get equal time and access when it's self-funded...but whatever.

I can't say I'd be surprised if "theocracy watch" started b***ing about something similar to what I just said.

 

[Father Heathen]

I don't know how you get equal time and access when it's self-funded...but whatever.

I can't say I'd be surprised if "theocracy watch" started b***ing about something similar to what I just said.

Okay then, you've convinced me. No religious crap in the public areas.

 

[Quiddity]

Okay then, you've convinced me. No religious crap in the public areas.

I doubt that was my doing.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Okay, which ones and do they really originate exclusively from Judaism/Christianity?

Sorry, guy. Nothing is exclusive even where some things dominate.

Well, yes, adjusting older laws to be more sensible, but is it done with god's will/blessing, or man's reason?

Neither.